Saw Shield -- New Finger-saving Technology for Table Saws and Band Saws

[ChuckM]

Said to be made in the USA and available in 2021, compatible with most existing table saws and band saws:https://www.getsawshield.com/

Here's the link to the table saw section:
https://www.getsawshield.com/table-saw

The FAQ section contains an installation video.

 

[ChuckM]

https://www.getsawshield.com/dust-detector

The (discounted) asking price seems to be competitive (with products like this:https://www.elitechustore.com/produ...MIhP6I55fO7QIVIQ_nCh24zgCoEAQYBSABEgIsePD_BwE).

 

[Ster1154]

Neat idea, though it seems like it'd be susceptible to a lot of accidental trips.  I couldn't find what it mean by "too close to the blade", I wonder if someone using a GRR-ripper for instance would trip it b/c their hands are technically close to the blade but fully protected.

 

[Packard]

The only accidents I have had on the table saw were:

1.  A short piece of stock kicked back and tore off my fingernail.

2.  A plastic push stick jambed against the blade and exploded from the stored energy. 

Neither would have been eliminated with saw stop technology.  I do wonder if saw stop makes people sloppier around their saws.

Note:  Push sticks made from scrap lumber are safer than the plastic push sticks that can store energy by flexing against the moving blade.

 

[DeformedTree]

Wow, a tech that they tell you zero about!  Sorry, no. 

Ignoring how it might work. Any add on for something like this is a straight up no.  They have no idea about each manufactures saws and what they can do.  You know it will void any warranty from the saw manufacture. It's just a massive liability wanting to happen.

Whole thing screams scam.  They are a start up, and don't have a shipping product, yet have brackets for most saws?  Further by now, you would have filed patents, so you would be covered. Which then means they very well are doing something that has been patented in the past, and they are just trying to have a market window before others come out with the same.

They also don't even explain the sensor.  They show it laying on the saw, that's useless. Where does this go? Of is the bracket mounting the sensor? In that case is this a motor brake, they are tripping electronics to stop the motor super fast?

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

I do wonder if saw stop makes people sloppier around their saws.

Some, especially those who have never used the SawStop, may say yes, and some may say no. For me, the cost of activating the SawStop cartridge would be pretty deep: $185 WWII blade + $110 cartridge plus tax, or about $300 Cdn. Even more, if I use a dado cutter and cartridge.  So the SawStop hasn't changed how I use a table saw in terms of safety and care.

The riving knife doesn't eliminate all kickbacks; I've installed the Jessem stock guides, making the saw kickback-proof (as long as the guides are used).

 

[DeformedTree]

Wow,  how did this guy find the time to make this company this year along with the 3 other companies he founded this year. 

It's kinda comical how similar all the websites looks.  Could have also used a different girl in videos for the different businesses.

It's not hard to find these, I won't post anything to them as I'm not going to support this in anyway. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

The only accidents I have had on the table saw were:

1.  A short piece of stock kicked back and tore off my fingernail.

In 23 years of using a tablesaw I only cut my hand once on the blade. When the machine was turned off.  [big grin]

The only other time it hurt me was when a cut-off was propelled with force into my abdomen. Slight brushing of the skin only, but it did have quite some force and it hurt.

I never even had an "almost" experience with the blade, I am always very careful.

I think that careful people will still be careful with a SawStop solution installed. Careless people will always be careless.

Not sure I'd trust this company a lot, DeformedTree raises some sensible concerns.

 

[DeformedTree]

Saw Stop and others can't protect from what I consider the real threat, cutoffs. I've never been hit, but have had bits go flying. Not talking about standard kickback caused by fence usage, just talking about off cuts.  Happens with miter saws too.  Saws with braking (EU mandate, but not in the US), help, as you only have a few seconds till the saw stops.

I stand to the side to stay out of the way, but you never know what is going to happen.

Table saws are nice in that the blade isn't going anyplace, you know where it is.  Only time I get concerned is doing thin rips.  That is where I can see buying a TKS80 in time,  it doesn't have pull function, but since my main use for such a saw would be rip cuts, it would be fine.

 

[ChuckM]

I use deflectors on the table saw when I have lots of cutoffs to handle.

Adapted from the Deflector Wedge by Rod Sheridan.

Template:https://tinyurl.com/wnj76g7

 

[rmhinden]

Regarding SawShield, I am also skeptical based on what I read on their web site.  Among other things, it seems too sensitive.  It is nice seeing other solutions come to market, but not sure how well an after market solution can work.

I am on my third table saw, current one is a SawStop 3HP PCS.  It's a great saw, I paid extra for the safety features.  Unlike my previous saws, the riving knife and blade guard actually work, and I almost always use them.  My earlier saws, it got in the way and I took it off.  It's both functional and safer.  It also has good dust collection. 

I haven had any serious accidents with my table saws, a few kickback on the earlier saws.  Still have all my fingers and plan to keep it that way. 

A month and half ago, I cut my left index finger on a forstner bit, required 5 stitches, it is mostly healed now and didn't loose any function.  It happened very quickly, I clearly put my finger where it shouldn't have been.  It has made me think about safety more.  Fingers don't grow back. 

Bob

 

[Svar]

I do wonder if saw stop makes people sloppier around their saws.

No more than seatbelts and airbags make them reckless drivers.

 

[DeformedTree]

I do wonder if saw stop makes people sloppier around their saws.

No more than seatbelts and airbags make them reckless drivers.

So while I doubt saw stop makes people reckless, other such system do have this problem.  While airbags and seat belts not so much, recent studies have found things like Lane Assist and Auto braking do make people lazy, as they just become dependent on them and tune out from actively paying attention.  This becomes a real issue when those folks get in a car without those systems and now they have grown used to them kicking in.

I don't think there would ever be enough users/data to really get an answer for something like saw stop, as it's such a specialized situation, but just like other safety systems that people get lazy with, there probably are those who even without realizing it pay a bit less attention because they have that safety piece of mind there. The fear is reduced.

 

[AlexThePalex]

but just like other safety systems that people get lazy with, there probably are those who even without realizing it pay a bit less attention because they have that safety piece of mind there. The fear is reduced.

Fear of losing a finger is replaced with fear of losing 300 bucks for a new cartridge. The latter is probably a lot bigger fear for most.  [tongue]

Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around the idea you would ever feel at ease with that screaming machine with 48 teeth @ 5000 RPM running in front of you.

 

[ChuckM]

PTI (with its own vested interest (of course), of which Festool is a member) suggests this:

Unintended Consequences Of The Sawstop Technology

    Data supplied by SawStop concerning the number of table saw units sold and the number of reported blade contact incidences, demonstrates that operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.
    Logic dictates that this increase in accident rate on SawStop saws is due primarily to a user’s decision to use the blade guard less frequently or not at all due to a “sense of security” in having the SawStop flesh-sensing technology on the saw.
    The reduced rate of using the blade guarding system will result in increased rate of facial or eye injuries caused by high velocity particles ejected by the saw blade or injuries caused by workpiece kickback.
    The increased cost of even the least expensive table saws, as discussed in this document, may result in power tool users resorting to unsafe methods (for example: using portable hand held circular saw in inverted position) to accomplish cuts normally performed on a table saw.
    The rising population in the 1980's of the affordable and safe benchtop saw resulted in a decrease in accidents from circular saws being used improperly. If benchtop saws become drastically more expensive or manufacturers withdraw from the market, there could be a return to improper use of circular saws and unintended declines in safety.
https://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/it-table-saw-facts.asp

 

[HarveyWildes]

I'm with the skeptics - I want to see some reviews before I'm buying it.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
Fear of losing a finger is replaced with fear of losing 300 bucks for a new cartridge. The latter is probably a lot bigger fear for most.  [tongue]

With SawStop, the fear of losing a finger doesn't exist, only the fear of a cut. But the cut, if it happens, is not very deep in most cases...at least not as deep as $300 in the pocket. [tongue] [big grin] It's quite a deterrent, like a speeding ticket.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
This becomes a real issue when those folks get in a car without those systems and now they have grown used to them kicking in.

That's especially so if the driver gets distracted with talking to a passenger or on the phone.

The new car safety features, however, have driven down accidents on the whole:https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...s-decline-because-of-car-features/1407386001/
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/vehicle-safety-features-accidents/

 

[DeformedTree]

but just like other safety systems that people get lazy with, there probably are those who even without realizing it pay a bit less attention because they have that safety piece of mind there. The fear is reduced.

Fear of losing a finger is replaced with fear of losing 300 bucks for a new cartridge. The latter is probably a lot bigger fear for most.  [tongue]

Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around the idea you would ever feel at ease with that screaming machine with 48 teeth @ 5000 RPM running in front of you.

Think about almost everything around you. Electricity in your house? Flying in an airplane?  Everything about your car.  Yard tools (giant spinning blade next to you feet as you wander around tipping it up at the world.  We become numb to the danger of everything with time/experience.  What was once terrifying no longer is, in part because it does get made safer, but also we become so use to it we don't think of it.

The first time you use a table saw, you are nervous.  Of course your shop teacher or father/mother told you how dangerous it is when you learned how to use it. But over time, you get used to it.  I'm fairly new to routers, they are straight up terrifying, far more than a table saw. But you get more comfortable with it every time you use it, and thus you get more careless, even if you don't know you are.

 

[jeh]

PTI (with its own vested interest (of course), of which Festool is a member) suggests this:

Unintended Consequences Of The Sawstop Technology

1.  Data supplied by SawStop concerning the number of table saw units sold and the number of reported blade contact incidences, demonstrates that operators are nearly five times more likely to contact the saw blade of a SawStop saw as opposed to the operator of a conventional table saw.
2.    Logic dictates that this increase in accident rate on SawStop saws is due primarily to a user’s decision to use the blade guard less frequently or not at all due to a “sense of security” in having the SawStop flesh-sensing technology on the saw.
3.    The reduced rate of using the blade guarding system will result in increased rate of facial or eye injuries caused by high velocity particles ejected by the saw blade or injuries caused by workpiece kickback.
4.  The increased cost of even the least expensive table saws, as discussed in this document, may result in power tool users resorting to unsafe methods (for example: using portable hand held circular saw in inverted position) to accomplish cuts normally performed on a table saw.
5.    The rising population in the 1980's of the affordable and safe benchtop saw resulted in a decrease in accidents from circular saws being used improperly. If benchtop saws become drastically more expensive or manufacturers withdraw from the market, there could be a return to improper use of circular saws and unintended declines in safety.
https://www.powertoolinstitute.com/pti-pages/it-table-saw-facts.asp

Obviously as [member=57948]ChuckM[/member] implied their unintended consequences (UC) are speculative at best. I numbered these UC's for reference.
1. No one knows the exact number of saws sold or blade contacts. The former may never be known as it is company proprietary data and the latter could be artificially inflated to make the saw seem like the safety is worth the money.

2. This is as close as you can get to pure speculation and was probably worked up by an expert in corporate communications.

3. The saw protects against life-altering damage to hands and fingers. The device was never designed to prevent kickback or facial or eye injuries. This point is irrelevant as it pertains to the SawStop's safety feature.

4. This may be true, but cheap comes in two flavors: One who cannot afford a better or more expensive tool and one who can but chooses not too. Neither one of these can be fixed other than giving the saws away and even then it may not be enough. Bicycle helmets are cheap, yet very few adults wear them. Motorcycles are incredibly dangerous, yet plenty of people ride them. Mouth guards are a few dollars yet most will not wear them unless they are required. People make poor decisions all of the time and wealth does not guarantee good decisions. I have met some of the cheapest wealthy people on many a work-site. Someone who is willing build a table saw out of circular saw is insane and there is no hope for them. Their lives involve multiple poor/insane decisions.

5. Benchtop table saws are more dangerous than stationary ones for many reasons. The main is price which directly impacts quality. The primary driver of cost is reducing weight to improve portability: thinner metal, more plastic, smaller table, less stable fence, less powerful motor. You end up with one big compromise.The saws they are trying to compare to are the $100 ones which are incredibly dangerous just due to stability.  The best bench top saws cost $400 and up and I have no issues with their safety so long as they are used on a stable surface and not dropped, which could potentially alter the alignment of the blade or damage the fence.

All tools are dangerous not matter how safe you are or think you are. Cheap table saws are the most affordable dangerous tool available short of possibly a chainsaw. A shaper is a far more life changing machine than both of them, but very few people own one outside of dedicated woodworkers and professionals.

The best advice is to stick to a track saw before even contemplating a table saw and if you must go with the safest you can get. I have no affiliation with SawStop or Bosch. Both are great and provide the utmost safety.

I will add that the fact that the SawStop destroys your blade is meaningless because you still have your hand, all fingers and only need a band aid. If it does trigger and you have to buy a new brake and blade you will not care. The plus to it is you are forced to stand down until you can replace them, which you need to do when you have avoided a life altering injury. The weak point of the Bosch is that you can fire it right back up and keep cutting, which is a terrible plan.