Sawstop PCS 52" fence...Did you replace it or augment it?

[Christophl]

How old is your SS fence, Chris?

I know the very old fences (15 years ago?) were made of poor quality ply, but customer feedback resulted in improvement.

Out of curiosity, I went out and checked both faces of the fence (about 12 measurements at various spots) with a Veritas alum. 50" straight edge. I found my fence more than flat and straight for any woodworkers. The readings were between 0.001" and 0.002", mostly 0.001".

I hadn't checked the flatness before...but I have not had any issues with cutting results so I always presumed the fence was all fine. I was still surprised by the results because my shop undergoes extreme swings in humidity throughout the year. The saw has been subject to constant (hobby) use since it was bought 7 years ago.

2 weeks old Chuck.  I had a very nice conversation with Trent at SS yesterday.  He said he felt that SS may be over tightening the screw attaching the face to the fence.  So he suggested me backing them off to see if I can get the face flat.  I haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

 

[Alanbach]

[member=75382]Christophl[/member] - I was going to suggest exactly what Trent suggested. If you tighten and loosen those screws and get most of the way there but still have a dip or two you can try loosening the nearest screw, inserting a piece of copy paper or two as a shim and then retighten the screw. I got mine down to the last thousandth or two and have been perfectly happy with it.

 

[Christophl]

Good to hear Alan, Thanks for the tip!

 

[bryanjtx]

So I purchased the 3hp PCS with 36" table and fence.  I never installed the fence or table extension and instead used the two cast iron tables on the right on the blade as and added a an Incra router table to the left along with the Incra TS-LS system.  I sold the unopened SS fence and extension table and have been very happy.  A couple of issues as pointed out before are that you need extra room for Incra system on the right hand side.  Secondly, using the SS overarm dust collection is not possible or even an outfeed table as the Incra tracks are lower than the SS table and you cannot connect them to the Incra rails. 

If I had to do it all again, I'd still go with the Incra fence.  I make small jewelry boxes (as a hobby) and need repeatable thin rips sometimes 2 weeks after the first set of cuts.  The Incra system makes it all accurate.  I'll take some pictures tonight and post.

 

[Festdewalkita]

So I purchased the 3hp PCS with 36" table and fence.  I never installed the fence or table extension and instead used the two cast iron tables on the right on the blade as and added a an Incra router table to the left along with the Incra TS-LS system.  I sold the unopened SS fence and extension table and have been very happy.  A couple of issues as pointed out before are that you need extra room for Incra system on the right hand side.  Secondly, using the SS overarm dust collection is not possible or even an outfeed table as the Incra tracks are lower than the SS table and you cannot connect them to the Incra rails. 

If I had to do it all again, I'd still go with the Incra fence.  I make small jewelry boxes (as a hobby) and need repeatable thin rips sometimes 2 weeks after the first set of cuts.  The Incra system makes it all accurate.  I'll take some pictures tonight and post.

I wonder if the overarm mounting is different than the floating dust collector?  I ordered the floating.  Even though I'm almost 99% sure I'll go with the Woodpecker Rip-Flip as discussed, I'd very much appreciate your pictures with any insights they provide in regards to installing a TS-LS. 

I'd go with their full-sized 52" TS-LS, but as I already have the LS-25 for my router table, it might be worthwhile to look and see if doing temporary LS installs or even fence swaps would be doable in the meantime (I know it would do much smaller rips). 

I definitely love the bazillionth of an inch/mm accuracy (I bought the metric screw as well), but even better, I *love* that you can go to a measurement, lock it in, and it will be the exact same it was the previous n times.  Quick, easy, accurate, and exactly repeatable (as opposed to repeatable to an accuracy +/- tolerance).  And because of the screw portion of the LS system, I would fear no blade change.

Birdhunter, ChuckM, Christophl, I appreciate the heads up on fence straightness...sounds good, but I'll nevertheless check (because I'm a geek that way).

ChuckM, I was planning on getting the Jessem CC stock guides...they look like a no-brainer.  I was just going to follow the instructions and mount them in the fence like you inferred.

 

[bryanjtx]

Here are a few pictures of my setup.  Apologies for the clutter as I'm trying to rearrange a few things in my small shop area.
The Incra LS is currently setup to use the router table and the base is covering the blade of the SS.

I did look at the floating dust arm, but it attaches on the far right of the table in the middle and that is where the LS needs room to slide back and forth so the base of floating dust arm would be in the way.  I just prop up with hose above the height of the blade guard when needed.  Not a big issue.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

ChuckM, I was planning on getting the Jessem CC stock guides...they look like a no-brainer.  I was just going to follow the instructions and mount them in the fence like you inferred.

Some people mount the stock guides on a plywood base, and attach the base to the fence with Magic-switches. I don't like that idea because i) the switches are extra expenditure ($100 for 2?), 2) I want the safety feature used as often as I can -- up to stock that is 1" wide or so (if the stock guides are on a plywood base somewhere...out of sight, out of mind). I also use the front stock guide as a stop block when crosscutting.

When I need to mount a tall fence, I simply remove the stock guides (rollers) -- hassle free.

 

[Festdewalkita]

Here are a few pictures of my setup.  Apologies for the clutter as I'm trying to rearrange a few things in my small shop area.
The Incra LS is currently setup to use the router table and the base is covering the blade of the SS.

I did look at the floating dust arm, but it attaches on the far right of the table in the middle and that is where the LS needs room to slide back and forth so the base of floating dust arm would be in the way.  I just prop up with hose above the height of the blade guard when needed.  Not a big issue.

That is nice!  I'm saving those pictures for easy reference later.  If I might bother you for pics when it's setup for TS use with DC in place, I would be forever grateful!

Snip.

ChuckM, I was planning on getting the Jessem CC stock guides...they look like a no-brainer.  I was just going to follow the instructions and mount them in the fence like you inferred.

Some people mount the stock guides on a plywood base, and attach the base to the fence with Magic-switches. I don't like that idea because i) the switches are extra expenditure ($100 for 2?), 2) I want the safety feature used as often as I can -- up to stock that is 1" wide or so (if the stock guides are on a plywood base somewhere...out of sight, out of mind). I also use the front stock guide as a stop block when crosscutting.

When I need to mount a tall fence, I simply remove the stock guides (rollers) -- hassle free.

Thank you, I was wondering a little bit about vertical cuts.  And the crosscut stop idea...beautiful!!

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
I did look at the floating dust arm,

I've used both the overarm dust collection and the floating overarm dust collection (almost twice as expensive). I highly recommend anyone considering the two choose the non-floating version because it's more efficient in terms of both dust collection (99% efficiency, unrated for the floating arm) and operation (no lifting up and down or in and out).

This morning I made 40 edge cuts (on 2" x 2" x 20" ish oak)-- notorious for dust spill. The dust uncollected can be seen in the images.

Bonus: I sucked up the uncollected dust on the table with the hose from the non-floating overarm. You can't do that with the floating overarm.

If a new buyer picks the right time to buy (during promo), she or he can get a free non-floating overarm dust collection or a mobile base.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have the non floating arm on my ICS and was not pleased with the dust collection. On my saw, the hose for the overarm came from a T off the 4” port. I have a 2hp Oneida cyclone going to the saw. When I added a dedicated Mini to the overarm, the dust collection improved greatly. The Mini is triggered by the saw turning on and continues to run for 10 seconds.

I did find that the plastic shrouds on the overarm do not like coming into contact with the spinning blade. Nasty cut on my arm. I’m still, after 3 years, finding pieces of the shroud.

 

[ChuckM]

I have the non floating arm on my ICS and was not pleased with the dust collection. On my saw, the hose for the overarm came from a T off the 4” port. I have a 2hp Oneida cyclone going to the saw. When I added a dedicated Mini to the overarm, the dust collection improved greatly. The Mini is triggered by the saw turning on and continues to run for 10 seconds.

I did find that the plastic shrouds on the overarm do not like coming into contact with the spinning blade. Nasty cut on my arm. I’m still, after 3 years, finding pieces of the shroud.

Indeed the right angle T-off is a poor design, and surprisingly, SawStop has still chosen to use the same design despite the countless user feedback about the fault. The dust collection blade guard is a great design, but poorly executed with the T-off design. The stated 99% efficiency must have been measured when the test was done with an industrial large dust collector.

I, too, hook up the overarm blade guard directly to a shop vac (which is turned on automatically with the saw and HEPA dust collector via an auto switch).

 

[bryanjtx]

Here are some more pictures of my setup when in "table saw mode".  Right now I can cut up to 22" with the Incra LS, but it does stick out quite far.  Also pictures of the LS when pushed in and not in use.  Any cuts larger than 22" are made with the tracksaw.  I have the Rockler 1250cfm wall mount dust collection and dust separation bin.  I hook that up to the sawstop for both under table and blade guard dust collection.  I'm very happy with this setup although I do still have to clean up dust on my own after I'm done cutting.  Hope this helps.

 

[Festdewalkita]

Here are some more pictures of my setup...Hope this helps.

Saved.

Thanks Bryan.

ChuckM, Birdhunter, etc.; based on your comments, for my floating guard I'm seriously pondering a pivoting setup mounted to the ceiling that entirely removes it from the saw (gotta install Oneida ductwork up there anyways when my DC system comes).  I think this would solve 2 problems at once (poor design of a 90 degree DC feature, and interference with a future Incra LS-TS install).

 

[Birdhunter]

I find the overarm system very useful when the dust collection is augmented by the dedicated vac

 

[ChuckM]

Ceiling mounted or otherwise, it'll work as long as the dust collection blade guard is hooked up to a sufficient extraction source. Very little dust escapes from the guard in regular ripping (but not edge cuts).

I also find it helpful to clean up the saw table after a dusty sawing session (such as edge ripping or cutting where the dust collection blade guard cannot be used) by using the overarm dust collection hose with an accessory.

 

[Mini Me]

Just got off the phone with Woodcraft...gal answering knew of no way to order without a fence.  I didn't see that as an option on the Sawstop website when I was tinkering there, either.  Maybe some of their retailers are doing their own thing, but as a TTS Tooltechnic Systems product, that would seem to be atypical.

Any digital instrument including the Wixey which I use has a resolution where it can moved without any change in the reading and as digital stuff goes the Wixey has quite a large resolution. I have a K3 slider with a fine adjustment knob on it and I can turn that a fair bit before the screen registers a change in reading. The Incra locks into a setting and has for all practical purposes no resolution at all.

That's too bad [member=74097]Festdewalkita[/member].  When I asked at my local Woodcraft store they quoted me a price without the fence, but that was a while back so maybe it was a dealer thing specific to that store or the option is no longer available.  My plans changed so I never ended up making the purchase.  As [member=18240]Max Fracas[/member] said earlier, I too have my Incra on an old Sears contractor saw (12" blade capacity).  With the speed of setting up and precision I get I can't imagine using any other fence.

Mike A.

 

[Birdhunter]

I follow ChuckM’s practice of cleaning up dust on my SawStop. I often work needing high precision. Saw dust on the table or between the work and the fence can throw off my measurements enough to cause an open joint.

 

[mike_aa]

"...The Incra locks into a setting and has for all practical purposes no resolution at all."

[member=58818]Mini Me[/member]  As you mentioned, the Incra fence locks in to a setting, but does have a micro-adjustment knob that offers adjustments between the increments as the need arises.  See the following links for a better understanding:
https://www.incrementaltools.com/INCRA_TS_LS_Table_Saw_Fence_32_Range_p/ls32-ts.htm
https://incra.com/table_saw_fences-tsls_fences.html

Mike A.

 

[ChuckM]

Not knowing your cleaner's CFM, I go out on a limb to guess that unless your shop is small or little dust is generated, your cleaner may not be giving you much help.

Mine is made of a furnace squirrel fan with MERV 11 or 12 filters (shop about 250 sq ft). The system is right by the table saw, which has both under-the-table and above-the-table dust extraction. After a couple hours of ripping oak, my intake filter was full of dust while the outtake (exhaust) "looked" ok.

But my car (dark color) in the garage was FULL of fine dust on the windshield and hood. I don't rely on the air filtration system for protection; I wear an N95 mask whenever heavy dust is expected.

 

[Mini Me]

I have just noticed I have a "mention" from this thread but I don't know what to do with it so I will reply here. I don't have a SS but on a cabinet saw I used to have I made a shorter fence as I never used the 52" to anywhere near its full capacity. I have to set up a dial indicator maybe today and I will measure the resolution I mentioned for the Wixey I have on my K3 using the fine adjuster.