SawStop Video

[jonny round boy]

I've seen videos before of the sawstop tablesaws, but this one is really cool - first, a frankfurter in mega slow-motion (look how much the blade flexes), and then the guy who invented it sticking his own finger in the blade  [eek]

Apologies to those of you who've seen it before!

SAWSTOP in TimeWarp

 

[bonesbr549]

I've seen this before and it is cool.  That's called beleiving in your invention! 

 

[bruegf]

I need (well, want really) a new table saw and had a chance to pick up a 10 yr old Unisaw in good condition for $300, but decided to wait until I can afford the Sawstop.  Part of me thinks its not worth all the extra money, but the other part thinks that $3000 is cheap compared to that one trip to the ER because I didn't pay attention to what I was doing for a fraction of a second.

Fred

 

[richard.selwyn]

Yes, I've watched the video a few times. 

My best friend from childhood is the guy who got me interested in woodworking in the first place and introduced me to saw stop (he lives in the US) But I introduced him to Festool!!!

He is one of the most safety conscious people I know, but he has a mangled index finger from a table saw accident and has just installed a Sawstop in his shop.  I think it is a fantastic idea but my sliding table saw doesn't have a sawstop.  But it does have a proper riving knife (still somewhat of a novelty it seems in the US) and with the wood clamped to the slider there is no reason to have your hand anywhere near the blade.  I would still like to have saw stop on the machine though. 

I do however, have a concern.  If you feel 100% confident with you machine and think it is 100% safe you may get careless.  Doesn't mean I don't think you should have every safety feature possible, but if seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS brakes etc make you drive like an idiot......

I was chopping some small pieces of MDF this afternoon - my client wanted to level two beds in one of his hotel bedrooms (it is Valentine's Day tomorrow) so I was rushiing to give him a quick solution.  The MDF was not clamped and when cutting one of the pieces something went astray and there was an almighty bang, a mangled piece of MDF and a broken dust guard on the Kapex.  And this is not the first time it has happened!! Hurrying and woodworking should never go together and I should never feel comfortable around ANY tool that can hurt.  I am glad that I am still very much in awe of my shaper and table saw.  I guess i need to have the same respect for the Kapex.

Richard

 

[PaulMarcel]

I have a SawStop and I've read countless postings about "all it does it promote unsafe practices" (n.b., by non-owners).  I don't believe that at all.  I want to be safe so I forked over the extra cash for the safety, not so I could drink a beer and push the board through with my knee.  I don't think people drive like idiots because of airbags and seatbelts; they drive like idiots because it is their choice and think they are in complete control.  They may be, but they cannot control the 85 year old grandma who thinks it's "safer" to drive 35 on the freeway and changes lanes in front of them.  Likewise, I can say I'm in complete control of the saw, but I don't know if I have reaction wood that'll split and give way for my hand to fly into the blade.  Coincidentally, the day my SawStop arrived, I ate at an El Polo Loco and the guy serving me had a completely jacked up left hand.  He saw my FWW and started talking.  What happened to him was the rip split and he pushed his hand into the blade.  Unsure if he was having a beer.

 

[woodguy7]

Thats  a cool vid, never seen that one before.  Cheers Jonny.

 

[EcoFurniture]

Thanks for posting this video!

One question I have: What happens if your glove/sweater gets pulled in first? I know that you shouldn't wear loose clothing at all, but I'm just wondering...

 

[sw1211]

Thanks for posting this video!

One question I have: What happens if your glove/sweater gets pulled in first? I know that you shouldn't wear loose clothing at all, but I'm just wondering...

Who has a Sawstop?  Sounds like on opportunity to get on film and possibly win a Darwin Award, or not, if it functions as designed.  [smile]

 

[fshanno]

I have a SawStop and I've read countless postings about "all it does it promote unsafe practices" (n.b., by non-owners).  I don't believe that at all.  I want to be safe so I forked over the extra cash for the safety, not so I could drink a beer and push the board through with my knee.  I don't think people drive like idiots because of airbags and seatbelts; they drive like idiots because it is their choice and think they are in complete control.  They may be, but they cannot control the 85 year old grandma who thinks it's "safer" to drive 35 on the freeway and changes lanes in front of them.  Likewise, I can say I'm in complete control of the saw, but I don't know if I have reaction wood that'll split and give way for my hand to fly into the blade.  Coincidentally, the day my SawStop arrived, I ate at an El Polo Loco and the guy serving me had a completely jacked up left hand.  He saw my FWW and started talking.  What happened to him was the rip split and he pushed his hand into the blade.  Unsure if he was having a beer.

The term unsafe practice is somewhat subjective.  But I am certain that a SawStop would change my behavior.  I would work faster and I would make cuts I wouldn't attempt on any other saw.  And I would count on the equipment to cover my back.  

I'm certain that I would behave this way because I am behaving this way.  I didn't buy a SawStop but I did buy the Grizzly 3hp with the riving knife.  I make cuts on that saw that I wouldn't make on a saw that didn't have a riving knife.  I work faster on that saw than I would on a saw that didn't have a riving knife.  It has changed my behavior.  Here's a picture of my old saw.

[attachimg=1]

I called her The Kickback Queen.  I was hit once by a small off cut when cutting stakes and I dodged two other large pieces one of which went through the sheet rock.  You better believe that Griz change my behavior and a SawStop would be a quantum leap beyond that.  I know that I used to do most of my hardwood ripping with my TS55 on one contraption or another.  Queenie scared me and I tried to keep away from her.  Now I do it all on the table saw.  That's why I bought a saw with a riving knife.  So what's the net affect to safety?  In interesting question. 

In the final analysis Paul is probably right but there is room for debate because there are people like me.

 

[RONWEN]

The Sawstop saw is an absolutely wonderful invention.  Living in the litigious society that we do I can imagine lawyers are licking their chops just waiting for any schools,  businesses or employers that didn't bother to upgrade to the Sawstop to have an accident or I suppose even place undo stress on employees that have to work in fear because they don't have one. 

 

[spikfot]

I must agree with Paul on this. I can see where other types of safety equip can cause people to relax a little too much, but not in this case, not with a tablesaw. The SawStop is a great invention. I won't be buying one myself just yet, but for cab shops, classrooms and anyone who has employees they are without question a great idea. As a guitarist, I have nightmares about lopping off a finger and yes, I have had very close calls.
I've mentioned in another thread that I think the FOG would be well served by a dedicated topic area for discussions on tool/workshop safety. Anyone else think so?

 

[jeffinsgf]

I've seen the hot dog demonstration live dozens of times (we exhibited next to them at a couple shows), but I've never seen the video of the inventor showing faith in his invention.  That is pretty gutsy.

I remember when he tried to sell this invention to Delta and Powermatic.  Both declined, publicly stating that their attorneys were concerned about what happened in the case where the feature failed to perform.  That's like saying that cars shouldn't have air bags because they might not deploy.

The nice thing about Sawstop is that they took a highly desirable feature and built beautiful saws around them.  All three saws are as good as or better than most anything on the market, excluding the high end European sliding table saws. However, I hear they are working with several European manufacturers to address that, too.

 

[harry_]

safety equipment is one of those things where it is: Better to have and not need, than need and not have!

I would think that at what I am guessing to be $100 or more per shot, not to mention 'down time', one would not lose track of general table saw safety protocols. However, I could see some issues where over time one could develop a smaller margin for safety as a result and then run into trouble when working at another saw.

Although not really safety related, I have developed the habit of just letting go of the handle of my Bosch SCMS as it has a nice slow return. I become acutely aware of this 'bad habit' when I use a DeWalt as it has enough spring to flip itself backwards off the table.

[2cents]

 

[bruegf]

As I mentioned above, I've been seriously thinking about the sawstop and have a question regarding which model.  As many hobbyists do, I have a limited area for shop space.  The space is also severely power challenged, no 220V feeds anywhere in the area and not even enough 110 outlets for good load balancing.  Turning on my current Ryobi BT3000 table saw tends to dim the florescent lights for a second.

I was leaning towards the new contractor sawstop model as it is also 110V, but have been wondering whether I would regret not getting the 3hp professional cabinet saw in the long run.  I've worked a bit with 8/4 stock but most of the things I've done use either 3/4 sheet material or 4/4 solid stock.

I would have to run power from my main panel at the opposite end of the house and put in another electric panel to get decent power in the shop, something I would guess would run in excess of $1k plus the extra $1K+ cost of the cabinet saw over the contractor saw.  Would it really be worth over $2k to have a 3hp saw over a 1 3/4 hp saw?

Just curious what you think.....

Fred

 

[justinmcf]

i bought a festool cms ts-75 table saw last year. i love it.
it has some great features. lightweight and portable. its very versatile, you can mount a jigsaw in it, a router and a belt sander.
however, the one thing it does not have, but should have, is this amazing technology from sawstop.
i would be prepared to pay extra for a festool table saw with this technology included, but i cant imagine how they would incorporate it into the present ts-55 and ts-75 models.

regards, justin.

 

[PaulMarcel]

Hey, Fred,

I bought the SawStop PCS.  Like Jeff said, they built a nice saw around the feature.  I bought it from a dealer who also sells the new Unisaw that many are raving about.  They setup the Unisaw and SawStop PCS side-by-side in the store and he said everybody buys the SawStop.  At the time, the Unisaw didn't discount so they were the same price as the SawStop sans safety  [crying]

The PCS has better dust collection than the contractor model, which had better DC than virtually all 'contractor' models out there when I saw a demo.  Footprint-wise, I'm betting the PCS takes up less floor space.  Oh, the mobile base made for the PCS rolls like a dream and sets the saw down on its own base (not locked wheels).

For me, I got the 30" fence vs the 50" fence since I always use the TS-75 to breakdown sheets and I want that extra 20+" of floor space.

My last saw was a PM64, which is a 1 3/4 h.p. saw.  I ran it at 110V not 220V.  It bogged down occasionally when running hard and/or thick material through.  220 wouldn't give me more power, just more room before popping the breaker.

For a 220 drop for the PCS, do you have an electric hot-water heater reasonably close by? Or, a dryer drop close by?  I tapped off my hot-water heater since I use a timer to heat water off-peak (or just turn it off when I'm in the shop).  A dryer drop can be much more convenient since it isn't on automatic plus you get a neutral wire so you can make 2 110V circuits besides the 220 (subject to a cumulative current limit defined by your dryer breaker).

As I mentioned above, I've been seriously thinking about the sawstop and have a question regarding which model.   As many hobbyists do, I have a limited area for shop space.   The space is also severely power challenged, no 220V feeds anywhere in the area and not even enough 110 outlets for good load balancing.  Turning on my current Ryobi BT3000 table saw tends to dim the florescent lights for a second.

I was leaning towards the new contractor sawstop model as it is also 110V, but have been wondering whether I would regret not getting the 3hp professional cabinet saw in the long run.   I've worked a bit with 8/4 stock but most of the things I've done use either 3/4 sheet material or 4/4 solid stock.

I would have to run power from my main panel at the opposite end of the house and put in another electric panel to get decent power in the shop, something I would guess would run in excess of $1k plus the extra $1K+ cost of the cabinet saw over the contractor saw.   Would it really be worth over $2k to have a 3hp saw over a 1 3/4 hp saw?

Just curious what you think.....

Fred

 

[PaulMarcel]

So after my posting about 85-year old grandmas cutting people off on the freeway, I was thinking more about the psychology of safety devices based on Richard and fshanno's comments.

My grandfather was a butcher and lots many digits to the bandsaw.  I think he could could to 6 plus several fractions.  No joke.  Marked me for life (when silly parents don't warn you before you meet him for the first time at 5 when you shake his 'hand').

Anyway, that makes me much more cautious.  But, I can fully relate to the idea that if I were in a cabinet shop plugging through 8 hours of boards a day for 2,000+ hours a year (1,680 in France  ) you'd get much more comfortable with a machine and do things you definitely would never do on day 1 with a table saw.  I could see the extension of that idea to encroaching your fingers closer to the blade on a SawStop when you just need to get that cut done.  Since I don't do that much work on the table saw, whenever my internal alarm goes "that wouldn't be safe on a different saw", I usually look to figure out how to do it more safely.  That said, I've drawn a line in the sand in my head that I won't cross even though this saw might let me.  If my paycheck depended on my productivity with the TS, I might cross that line (but only with this saw).

 

[bruegf]

Paul and Joe,

Thanks for the feed back.  Unfortunately I (at least for this purpose) have a gas water heater.  There is a line for the electric stove not too far away, but the electrician that wired my transfer switch for my generator told me he wouldn't be able to use that as a feed to a new panel because it was only 3 wire.  And I don't have a single dedicated circuit in the entire basement, either on the side the shop is in or in the other half of the basement.

I guess the best thing for me to do at this point is to get an electrician in and see what my options are and what the cost would be before I buy the saw.

Glad to hear that you thought your PM64 had enough power.  My Ryobi did for most things but it has struggled a few times even on 4/4 stock, but I think its a 1 1/2 hp motor, and I doubt its the best quality motor given the original price of the saw.

Thanks

Fred

 

[Beezil]

I own a PM66.

I bought it 15 years ago, and love it.

I am also very safety-conscious, and like the concept of the saw stop, but am not about to kick a pm66 to the curb for a safety feature.

so instead, i added a power feeder to the pm66.  I know this configuration is not suitable for everyone, but for what i do, I am able to operate my table saw in a power-fed operation about 99-percent of the time.

I now have power feeders on my bandsaw, and shaper as well

 

[bruegf]

Got the quote on adding 240V to my basement shop - $1300.  Add to that the extra $800 it would cost to get the SS cabinet saw over the contractor saw w/ cast iron wings and 36" fence.

Do you guys think the cabinet saw is really worth an extra $2100 for a hobbyist?  I'm having a hard time convincing myself even though it would be great to have the better dust collection the cabinet saw is supposed to have.

Fred