Schmokin' Birds...

[rmwarren]

We always host Thanksgiving for the in-laws and last year I was allowed to smoke a turkey for the first time, although the boss still insisted on cooking one in the oven just in case. Ended up being a great hit and yesterday I learned that smoking the bird has become a "tradition"...

The first bird came out okay, the legs were slightly under cooked when I took it off to keep from seriously over-cooking the breasts. This year I think I am going to Spatchcock the bird , i.e. cut out the backbone and splay it open. I cook on a Big Green Egg, from what I have read online I should b e able to do a 20# turkey in around 2 hours.

Thoughts or suggestions?

RMW

 

[Jesse Cloud]

However you cook the turkey, if you cook it long enough to fully cook the thighs and legs, the breast will dry out.  People try cooking the bird upside down for most of the time (helps a little, but tricky to do), basting the bejeebers out of it (doesn't help), putting fat under the breast skin (helps, but changes the flavor and hard to do without breaking the skin).

We do what Julia Child did, cut the legs and thighs off and cook them separately from the breast.  You can start the dark meat in your smoker before your add the breast or even cook them in different methods.  The "tradition" in our house is to roast the breast and braise the dark meat in a nice osso bucco style sauce.  Darn near fool proof and its a big hit here.

 

[PaulMarcel]

We do what Julia Child did, cut the legs and thighs off and cook them separately from the breast.  You can start the dark meat in your smoker before your add the breast or even cook them in different methods.  The "tradition" in our house is to roast the breast and braise the dark meat in a nice osso bucco style sauce.  Darn near fool proof and its a big hit here.

I'm getting in the car now...  I got hungry just reading that.

 

[tbellemare]

Ron:

I'm planning on about a 11-12 lb turkey in the egg. I use tree trimmings that I pre-burn to make coals. Otherwise, if I just light them, I get too much smoke even though they have been curing for well more than a year. I'd be surprised if you could do a 20 lb. bird in 2 hours. I'm curious if you can?

One thing that helps a lot with all poultry and pig is to brine it first. It helps hold the water in. With beef, you salt it first.

I'm going to use the plate setter accessory so the bird is getting indirect heat and put it upside-down in a v-rack. I'm also going to try something I learned of recently, which is to slice up some salt pork and put it along the spine so that it bastes the bird while it's cooking. be sure to rinse the salt pork after you cut it up or, apparently, it makes the bird too salty to have brined it and used unwashed salt pork.

Last year, I did a bird that I put herb butter under its skin and it was really moist and tasty. You just carefully separate the skin from the meat with your hand and then place pats of herb butter all over. I haven't decided yet but I may do the herb-butter thing for the egg bird also.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

I just put mine on a rotisserie which keeps the breast nice and moist and the wings and legs nicely done.
[attachimg=#]

Hickory Smoked on the BBQ.. Turkey was about 14lbs, tied, seasoned and set on the rotisserie for about 3.5hours at 300F. Heat sources alternated between the Smoker box (to the left) and rotisserie grill (directly behind). It has a mild bacon flavor and is very moist when cooked this way.

 

[rmwarren]

Ron:

I'm planning on about a 11-12 lb turkey in the egg. I use tree trimmings that I pre-burn to make coals. Otherwise, if I just light them, I get too much smoke even though they have been curing for well more than a year. I'd be surprised if you could do a 20 lb. bird in 2 hours. I'm curious if you can?

One thing that helps a lot with all poultry and pig is to brine it first. It helps hold the water in. With beef, you salt it first.

I'm going to use the plate setter accessory so the bird is getting indirect heat and put it upside-down in a v-rack. I'm also going to try something I learned of recently, which is to slice up some salt pork and put it along the spine so that it bastes the bird while it's cooking. be sure to rinse the salt pork after you cut it up or, apparently, it makes the bird too salty to have brined it and used unwashed salt pork.

Last year, I did a bird that I put herb butter under its skin and it was really moist and tasty. You just carefully separate the skin from the meat with your hand and then place pats of herb butter all over. I haven't decided yet but I may do the herb-butter thing for the egg bird also.

Tom

Tom,

I got the idea to Spatchcok the bird here: http://www.fredsmusicandbbq.com/category_s/921.htm. I hit Fred's place every couple months when I am in the area, his local shop seems to be leaning more towards grills and away from guitars all the time. Fred started blending his own rubs and they are available thru Amazon now under the brand Tasty Licks.

I think it was a Martha Stewart video that said it cooked that fast (in an oven) so I am winging it there, will just use a probe to get it right.

I use the plate setter also. The bird was purchased before I was informed I was in smoking it, it is already injected so I have to forego brining it. I may try the salt pork and butter routine - two of my favorite food-groups!  [big grin]

If you don't already do this, try the plate setter with the legs pointing up and the grill sitting on them, then put a foil drip pan on the plate setter filled with water. Adds ongoing moisture to the egg interior and lifts the bird up into the dome further from the coals. I sometimes even drop a handful of sage onto the plate setter and just let it bake to infuse the smoke.

Very curious about pre-burning the wood, I assume you are just basically making your own charcoal? I looked at doing that but it looked seemed a lot of effort considering that Lowes started carrying Cowboy lump. I guess you have an endless supply of Mesquite down there?

Thanks,

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

I just put mine on a rotisserie which keeps the breast nice and moist and the wings and legs nicely done.
[attachimg=#]

Hickory Smoked on the BBQ.. Turkey was about 14lbs, tied, seasoned and set on the rotisserie for about 3.5hours at 300F. Heat sources alternated between the Smoker box (to the left) and rotisserie grill (directly behind). It has a mild bacon flavor and is very moist when cooked this way.

Man that looks good Tim!

Is the rotisserie behind the bird infrared? We lost our regular grill in Sandy (the BGE did not even budge) and I as looking at grills with infrared as the replacement, but I am totally clueless about them. Any advice?

RMW

 

[tbellemare]

If you don't already do this, try the plate setter with the legs pointing up and the grill sitting on them, then put a foil drip pan on the plate setter filled with water.

I've always used mine with the legs up. I have a friend that uses water. I haven't tried that yet, maybe on this bird.

Very curious about pre-burning the wood, I assume you are just basically making your own charcoal?

'I have a lot of oak trees and that's what I've been using along with some fig. I'm trying to get some pecan, a taste I really like but I don't have any pecan trees here. The shells work for taste but not much there for fuel. I'm not a a big fan of mesquite and have read that it has a lot of carcinogens that other wood doesn't.

I consider the cost of charcoal to be almost insignificant with the efficiency of the egg but the concept of using what I already have appeals... I think my Depression era father's lessons must have sunk in.

Tom

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I've smoked several turkeys and have learned a few things along the way. Just to make my random thoughts easier to write as they come off my head, I'll just make them bullet points.

• I use a horizontal smoker. The main reason is because I can keep the temperature lower by not forcing all of the heat past the food.
• I load the fire chamber with charcoal as the main heat source for better temperature control, and use large pieces of wood on top of this for the smoke. This allows me to better control both the temperature and the amount of smoke. The larger pieces also don't need to be wetted.
• I place a cast iron skillet filled with water near the fire for moisture. For my smoker, I can place it between the fire box and smoke chamber, but yours would be different.
• I do not truss the legs like you would in the oven.
• On a horizontal smoker, the heat comes from above, so it will behave differently than a vertical smoker. Heat rises, so the bottom of my smoke chamber is cooler than the top. A vertical smoker is the opposite.
• I start the smoking at very low temperature. (typically below 150) This allows the flavor to penetrate deep into the meat before the skin and outer meat seal off.
• You know you've smoked it correctly when you have a deep band of pink on the outer layer of the fully cooked meat.
• I use a dual remote thermometer. One probe tells me the temperature inside the smoker, and the second probe monitors the temperature of the meat itself. For a large bird, I'll even add a 3rd remote for checking meat temperature elsewhere in the bird.
• I don't brine my birds, but I do inject them with massive amounts of butter and some poultry seasons.
• I rotate the bird several times, including putting it upside-down. I usually try to go upside-down first for color on the bottom side, and then just rotate it for more even heating. For a vertical smoker, you would have to develop your own rotation scheme because the heat comes from below.
• Only later in the cook will I let the smoker temperature get higher to ensure a food-safe cook. Unfortunately, by that time, I can end up with a runaway temperature and it is a struggle to keep the temperature well below 250. My target high temperature is around 220 degrees, and you will see the internal meat temperature rise quickly by that point.
• When the internal temperature rises quickly, it is a sign that the meat is fully cooked, and all you are doing it making it food-safe.
• Because I use a long and slow cook time, I do not use 165 degrees as my safe cook temperature. I stay well below that, because the "bugs" are already dead. By coming toward the target temperature slowly, all of the meat reaches the same target nearly the same time.

By keeping the smoke temperature VERY low for a long time, and only bringing the final temperature up for safety, the meat stays very moist.

 

[tiralie]

Man that looks good Tim!

Thanks. As I have discovered the better the presentation the more it seems to make everyone feel it tastes better. I love smoked food, and turkey is definitely one of my favorites, well that and beef ribs, and pork ribs and ....

Is the rotisserie behind the bird infrared? Any advice?

Yes it's an infrared element.

I am not partial to infrared over any other heat elements and still think that for the money a basic (non-Home Depot) Webber with a rotisserie element is extremely good value. I had one for 16 years. While they don't get as hot as the better BBQ's they are excellent.

I only really use the infrared toward the end of the cooking cycle to increase the temperature as there is an element under the wood chips that provides most of the heat. Like Rick I put a pan of water under the bird as it's cooking. With the rotisserie on most of the smoke seems to circulate around the bird, but I watch the chips carefully and top up regularly.

Using the rotisserie element speeds up the cooking and crisps up the skin quickly (which I like) but unless I smoke it for a longer time, turkey only has a smokey flavor vs. being infused with smoke like Ricks.

Hope this helps.
Tim

 

[tiralie]

By keeping the smoke temperature VERY low for a long time, and only bringing the final temperature up for safety, the meat stays very moist.

That looks great.
I love smoked turkey.
Tim

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Actually Tim, one of the best things is doing a hybrid between a full smoke and a grilled rotisserie. That was my first attempt, but I destroyed my small rotisserie in the process. My small rotisserie motor couldn't handle the weight imbalance of the bird, so out of desperation, I literally used my C12 drill to assist the motor half-way through the cook.  [eek]

Before I owned the smoker, I used my Weber Summit grill and an aftermarket spit. I pulled all of the grates and placed a cherry-wood log over the single burner that was lit. That burner smoldered the large log.

Half way through the cook, I discovered the bird had loosened up enough that it was so imbalanced to not be able to make a full revolution on the spit. So I grabbed my C12 drill, locked the trigger very slow, and chucked it to the output shaft of the spit. It provided enough extra torque to keep the spit turning when the weight was imbalanced. It ran like that for the final hour of cooking and saved the day.

In a perfect world, I would find some way to have a rotisserie smoked cooking. It is the best of both.

 

[tiralie]

Half way through the cook, I discovered the bird had loosened up enough that it was so imbalanced to not be able to make a full revolution on the spit.

Yes I have had a similar experience where the bird loosened up because I didn't tighten the thumb screws on the rotisserie forks. What a mess. A 14-16lb turkey flopping around can destroy the gears in the motor in no time. I use pliers now to tighten the thumbscrews.

The one drawback to the cheap Webber's is the rotisserie bar is not heavy enough gauge to support a turkey without or nice rib roast without bending and flexing. A heavy duty motor and bar are a must. There are some great after market motors that even survive in the rain.

I was always trying to figure out how to get the heavier duty bars on my old Webber but it just never worked out.

In a perfect world, I would find some way to have a rotisserie smoked cooking. It is the best of both.

I do use fresh (not frozen) free range turkeys. Occasionally the grocery store also sells breasts (on bone) and I will tie two together on the spit and smoke them. Delicious, but I miss the salty, crunchy skin and wings of a full bird. They gotta be the best for me.

It's been a long time since I have used a frozen turkey, but I would really like to try and see if a butterball or similar comes out as well as the fresh ones do.

 

[rmwarren]

Soooo many choices to make..... [scratch chin]

I just looked at the bird and now question whether it will fit on the egg after being split and splayed out. Also found a "Turkey Cannon" in my gadget storage area, don't really recall why/when I purchased it but it must have seemed like a good idea at the time.

[attachthumb=#]

My previous attempt at bird on the egg turned out pretty good, a little dry in the breast and undercooked in the legs, I think I will try this gizmo and perhaps insert some baking nails into the legs to speed them up a bit if they lag behind. I seem to recall last time the breast hitting almost 180 before the legs hit 165, that was when I gave up and we finished the legs later after visual inspection showed they were still a bit raw.

I like Rick's idea of slow smoking to get a good smoke ring before cranking it up.  I do a lot of pork shoulder and can get the egg to idle at

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I just picked up a small bird about an hour ago. We have a very large family, so there are always several options to choose from on Thanksgiving regarding where each of us goes. What is kind of nice this year is that 3 related families have relatives staying at the same new retirement complex that my mom just moved into. That includes my mom, my brother-in-law's father, and his cousin's mother. So all three families are getting together in the same place, and they secured the auxiliary dining area. So it is going to be a large turnout with several different birds and a lot of side dishes.

It is only 10 minutes away, so I will be able to smoke my bird at home, but everyone else will be using their relative's ovens. I think this is going to be one of the best Thanksgivings we've had since I was a kid. There will be at least 3 different birds, countless side dishes, and at least 2 or 3 dozen people. The dining area is also very upscale, and rivals anything any of us could have in our own homes or even the best restaurant.

RMW,
The slow-cook isn't entirely just for the smoke flavor. It also allows the internal meat to get fully cooked without over-cooking the exterior meat. It takes a lot longer, but it reduces the amount of heat "gradient" from the outside to the inside. I use the same method for grilling (without smoke) red meat too. I use a high-temperature sear, and then move the meat to a low-temperature cook. My target "pink color" (red meat) isn't just in the center, but in the whole piece except for the outside sear.

The closer your "cook temperature" is to your "target temperature", the more even the meat will be cooked from outside to inside. However, the closer those temperatures are, the longer it will take to fully cook.

For something as large as a turkey, I keep the original cook temperature low so that the meat fully cooks from outside to inside. This keeps the meat moist. Then, only at the end do I bring the temperature up to ensure a food-safe cook. The temperature gradient stays small, so the moisture is not lost.

 

[rmwarren]

Rick,

Thanks for clarifying that, it makes more sense to me now. I am not intuitive about cooking, it always is a struggle.

When I smoke a butt I will keep the temp at

 

[peter halle]

I use Rick's approach for beef tenderloins (whole).  Sear, then smoke cook at a lower temperature - I prefer oak.  The end result is almost fork tender and people have never had it cooked that way.  All the meet is the same color when cooked to the lower range of wellness.

I haven't decided to rotisserie on gas, smoke on horizontal, or smoke in electric smoker.  Or just wimp out  [scared] and use the oven, or do a combo.  Decisions, decisions.

Peter

 

[AdamM]

amazingribs.com is one of my favorite resources for smoking.  I haven't had a chance to try his turkey smoking recipe yet, but the others have been excellent.  The author is extremely detailed regarding good techniques, what to watch out for, etc.

http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/chicken_turkey_duck/ultimate_smoked_turkey.html

 

[Deansocial]

Admit it who else click on this thread expecting something else mouth watering [tongue]

 

[rmwarren]

Admit it who else click on this thread expecting something else mouth watering [tongue]

I admit I had to re-read the title a couple times. Never even crossed my mind... Duh.  [doh]

RMW