AlexThePalex
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Steve R said:
I work wherever it's needed, if I need a TS, I just bring it with me.
Second MFT, or new Table Saw
- Thread starter mavrick1903
- Start date
I work wherever it's needed, if I need a TS, I just bring it with me.
MrToolJunkie
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I am in the good Bandsaw camp first and then Tablesaw...I think that if you have a TS55/TS75 and MFT/parallel guides that you can accomplish pretty much anything combined with a good bandsaw and router. I do most dados and rabbets with the router instead of the tablesaw and I get surprisingly accurate rips with the bandsaw as well as a host of other joinery. I have been depating with myself for months on whether I should sell my cabinet saw and reclaim space or keep it for those times where it is a better tool for the job...I have even been making several projects relying only on Festools and my Bandsaw to test it out and so far things have worked out well. The guides can be finicky to set up, but they are very accurate. It is not as fast going this route, so it becomes a speed vs. space debate as accuracy is the same in my mind.
Scot
Scot
mavrick1903
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- Jan 22, 2007
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What about tapered legs? My pref has been using the Table Saw for this (yes, I've used the bandsaw as well, like the TableSaw better.)
sancho57
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All depends on your needs. I have the TS 55 gparalell guides 2 MFTs etc. I also own a tilt abor table saw (delta contractors). I have used the table saw only a handful of times since I started using festools.
I only use it for cutting thin strips and face frames. I think you could get away with buy a bench top saw/ portable contractors.
I only use it for cutting thin strips and face frames. I think you could get away with buy a bench top saw/ portable contractors.
Ken Nagrod
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Just something to think about, SawStop will be introducing a REAL portable table saw including their safety technology. It will have a rolling stand and not be overly heavy. Expected release time frame is the end of this year. Learned about this from a very reliable source a couple of months ago. Of course it's possible for things to change between now and the end of the year, but this is the info I was given. Price will be around $700. Don't ask for more info as I don't have any.
If you don't work on location, this takes some of the sizzle out of the Festool saw system..... its mobility is a huge part of its appeal.
OTOH, if your shop is small, and space is VERY important, and you need to use the space for other tasks when not sawing, the Festool saw system gains much appeal again...
But if you break down sheet goods, so you will end up with a TS55/75 and rails, the incremental cost would only be the MFT. That makes the cost comparison MFT vs. cabinet saw. Festool MFT addition much less costly vs. a cabinet saw. Now a big price differential
I think some have mastered the small work space on this list......band saw for long rips (but not on sheet goods), and a good looong jointer, or jointer hand plane. The issue is, do you use sheet goods often? If not, there is other low cost systems that can break them down...
A lot comes down to volume....if you do low volume of work, and time is not a huge issue, than the Festool system can accomplish everything you want with the benefits of hanging it on the wall when not using it...
However, I think most people would agree, if you have the space and the money, its hard to beat a solid cabinet saw for many tasks... it doesn't mean you can't find other ways to make the same cuts...
OTOH, if your shop is small, and space is VERY important, and you need to use the space for other tasks when not sawing, the Festool saw system gains much appeal again...
But if you break down sheet goods, so you will end up with a TS55/75 and rails, the incremental cost would only be the MFT. That makes the cost comparison MFT vs. cabinet saw. Festool MFT addition much less costly vs. a cabinet saw. Now a big price differential
I think some have mastered the small work space on this list......band saw for long rips (but not on sheet goods), and a good looong jointer, or jointer hand plane. The issue is, do you use sheet goods often? If not, there is other low cost systems that can break them down...
A lot comes down to volume....if you do low volume of work, and time is not a huge issue, than the Festool system can accomplish everything you want with the benefits of hanging it on the wall when not using it...
However, I think most people would agree, if you have the space and the money, its hard to beat a solid cabinet saw for many tasks... it doesn't mean you can't find other ways to make the same cuts...
barnowl
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- Feb 14, 2008
- Messages
- 252
TurnagainD said:
+1
For a multitude of reasons, portability the prime reason, I went with the contractors saw, which is powerful enough for my uses.
I bought the saw without a fence, as I wanted to use my existing Incra fence, which, in my opinion, is the finest fence on the market.
However, if you go that route, face the fence with UHMW, so that the fence cannot accidently touch the blade.
MrToolJunkie
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- Jul 6, 2009
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- 3,009
What kind of hose is your DC hose? Looks like a 120MM Festool Hose!
Scot
Scot
JustinHoffmann
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- Joined
- Feb 25, 2011
- Messages
- 8
I know I'm a little late here, but I figured I would weigh in with my experience.
I live in a Philadelphia row home built in 1953. The garage, which serves as my work shop, is 9' wide by 19' long. Since these garages are so small, most people use them for storing garden equipment and bikes and similar items. It's not impossible to park a car inside - my late grandfather parked his car in a similarly sized garage for 40 years - it is a struggle that I was never comfortable with.
In February of 2011 I put the full court press on my wife to get a Saw Stop. I work in IT, and my fingers are the bread winners. I also have four kids, now aged 4-12, who love to work with dad in the workshop (always carefully supervised). I had grown uncomfortable with my very well regarded Craftsman 22124 "Zip Code" table saw. I'm getting ready to hit the big 4-0 this year, so I was looking at protecting my earning potential. I've also struggled with a back issue, so breaking down big sheets of ply wood on the table saw had grown more and more difficult. You can imagine trying to handle a full sheet of plywood in a garage the size of mine and wrestling it into place and trying to get good results.
Sometime around 2007 or 2008 I purchased a TS-55. It was a very nice saw that made awesome cuts. I failed to make use of the system and didn't have dust collection to go with it. I also only had the 55" rail, so my ability to break down plywood was limited to sizing it to something manageable to put on the 22124. I wasn't aware of this site or I may have been ready to jump in with both feet sooner.
I was all ready to make the order for the Saw Stop when I thought about some of the things I had read about Festool over at Saw Mill Creek. I was also concerned about dust collection. I had purchased the Oneida Super Dust Deputy, and was pretty pleased with its performance when hooked up to my Delta AP 400. The down side was the amount of space used by everything. Another limiting factor for me was the lack of 220 service in my garage.
The Saw Stop I was going to purchase had a very similar foot print to the 22124. Every time I tried to do something that required walking past the table saw was an exercise in frustration. I had some shop built shelving on the wall perpendicular to the guide rail tube on the table saw. I wound up with less than a foot of clearance between the tube and the shelves. I had contemplated reducing the size of the tube because I hardly ever cut to the left of the blade. I could never bring myself to do it, however. I especially couldn't imagine doing it after spending $3500 or so on the Saw Stop. I had a crisis - permission to spend money but lots of buyers remorse and unsolved issues to get everything together before even spending a dime.
About that time I finally registered here after lurking a while. I decided to take the green ad blue route rather than the black and red one. Uncle Bob took care of me and I wound up purchasing a TS-75, CT-36, OF2200, and the MFT/3. I also purchased the parallel guides (P00108) and the parallel edge guides for both the TS55 and TS75(491469 & 492243). I wound up spending close to cost of the Saw Stop for the Festool gear based on last year's prices.
After selling the Craftsman table saw I had a lot of seller's remorse. I was slow to pick up the Festool system. I also found the small size of the MFT/3 to be extremely limiting. I purchased the must have accessories - the rail and Qwas dogs. The square layout of the hole pattern on the MFT is genius. However, I found that the hinge system for the rail on the MFT/3 was not working well for me. I tried every suggestion to square it up, but there was always enough play to really frustrate me. I decided to forgo the hinge system and rely totally on the rail and Qwas dogs - which made the small size of the MFT/3 even more apparent and painful for me and my work habits. By needing to use the holes to the front and rear of the MFT table with the rail dogs, I lost quite a few inches in cross cut capacity.
Earlier this year I embarked on a few attempts at a "super sized" mft by using various techniques posted here and talkfestool.com. I wound up adding an OF1010 and the LR32 system in order to make my own larger MFT type surface. It it s few inches shorter and narrower than a 4'x8' sheet of plywood. I trimmed a regular sheet using my TS 75 and the parallel guides to ensure square corners and clean edges, which are critical to the LR 32 system. It also helped to reduce the weight of the plywood. I had previously tried to create the hole pattern on my work bench, but totally messed up and wound up with holes that aren't perpendicular and also not in straight lines. The work bench top is only 1.5" thick, but it was too thick for the Festool clamps to work properly.
Once I figured out the LR32 and found some time to perform the MFT "duplication" work, the results were awesome. Since I am no longer limited by the proportions of the MFT/3 I am a much happier camper. When I want to cross cut boards that are 8' long I am in good shape. Since my MFT surface supports the full length of the board, I no longer have to worry about the off cut falling of the table. Yes, there are many other ways to deal with that issue, but I'm very happy with my solution. I also don't have to worry about the depth of the holes since the holes close to the front and rear edges are roughly 36" apart. I have plenty of cross cut capacity now.
I will agree to a certain extent that the parallel guides are a bit finicky, and it really helps to have to make lots of cuts of the same size. The way I personally worked with a table saw was pretty similar, however. I start with a rough idea and measurements for my projects, but usually adapt to how things happen as I work my way through. I always wound up "sneaking up" to the right cut before I was able to crank out a bunch of similarly sized pieces on the table saw. I don't see the parallel guides as being that much different for me. Once I get to the size I need, I can crank out several pieces with either the table saw (when I had it) or now with the Festool setup. The big advantage the table saw had over the parallel guides was the stability issue. I know there are lots of potential solutions for increasing the stability of the Festool parallel guides, and I will pursue one of those solutions in the near future. I am just giddy after finally having an MFT type table that is big enough to make my hobby easier. I wanted to have one success under my belt before embarking on the next solution.
Sorry this was so long, but I figured I would try to return some of the knowledge I've gained here. For my workshop and the type of work I do I can work without a table saw. There are times I get starry eyed looking at the various table saws out there, and I would have really enjoyed that Saw Stop I passed on. After having lived through the frustration of such a limited space I am confident that I made the right choice by going to a mainly Festool shop.
Thanks,
Justin
I live in a Philadelphia row home built in 1953. The garage, which serves as my work shop, is 9' wide by 19' long. Since these garages are so small, most people use them for storing garden equipment and bikes and similar items. It's not impossible to park a car inside - my late grandfather parked his car in a similarly sized garage for 40 years - it is a struggle that I was never comfortable with.
In February of 2011 I put the full court press on my wife to get a Saw Stop. I work in IT, and my fingers are the bread winners. I also have four kids, now aged 4-12, who love to work with dad in the workshop (always carefully supervised). I had grown uncomfortable with my very well regarded Craftsman 22124 "Zip Code" table saw. I'm getting ready to hit the big 4-0 this year, so I was looking at protecting my earning potential. I've also struggled with a back issue, so breaking down big sheets of ply wood on the table saw had grown more and more difficult. You can imagine trying to handle a full sheet of plywood in a garage the size of mine and wrestling it into place and trying to get good results.
Sometime around 2007 or 2008 I purchased a TS-55. It was a very nice saw that made awesome cuts. I failed to make use of the system and didn't have dust collection to go with it. I also only had the 55" rail, so my ability to break down plywood was limited to sizing it to something manageable to put on the 22124. I wasn't aware of this site or I may have been ready to jump in with both feet sooner.
I was all ready to make the order for the Saw Stop when I thought about some of the things I had read about Festool over at Saw Mill Creek. I was also concerned about dust collection. I had purchased the Oneida Super Dust Deputy, and was pretty pleased with its performance when hooked up to my Delta AP 400. The down side was the amount of space used by everything. Another limiting factor for me was the lack of 220 service in my garage.
The Saw Stop I was going to purchase had a very similar foot print to the 22124. Every time I tried to do something that required walking past the table saw was an exercise in frustration. I had some shop built shelving on the wall perpendicular to the guide rail tube on the table saw. I wound up with less than a foot of clearance between the tube and the shelves. I had contemplated reducing the size of the tube because I hardly ever cut to the left of the blade. I could never bring myself to do it, however. I especially couldn't imagine doing it after spending $3500 or so on the Saw Stop. I had a crisis - permission to spend money but lots of buyers remorse and unsolved issues to get everything together before even spending a dime.
About that time I finally registered here after lurking a while. I decided to take the green ad blue route rather than the black and red one. Uncle Bob took care of me and I wound up purchasing a TS-75, CT-36, OF2200, and the MFT/3. I also purchased the parallel guides (P00108) and the parallel edge guides for both the TS55 and TS75(491469 & 492243). I wound up spending close to cost of the Saw Stop for the Festool gear based on last year's prices.
After selling the Craftsman table saw I had a lot of seller's remorse. I was slow to pick up the Festool system. I also found the small size of the MFT/3 to be extremely limiting. I purchased the must have accessories - the rail and Qwas dogs. The square layout of the hole pattern on the MFT is genius. However, I found that the hinge system for the rail on the MFT/3 was not working well for me. I tried every suggestion to square it up, but there was always enough play to really frustrate me. I decided to forgo the hinge system and rely totally on the rail and Qwas dogs - which made the small size of the MFT/3 even more apparent and painful for me and my work habits. By needing to use the holes to the front and rear of the MFT table with the rail dogs, I lost quite a few inches in cross cut capacity.
Earlier this year I embarked on a few attempts at a "super sized" mft by using various techniques posted here and talkfestool.com. I wound up adding an OF1010 and the LR32 system in order to make my own larger MFT type surface. It it s few inches shorter and narrower than a 4'x8' sheet of plywood. I trimmed a regular sheet using my TS 75 and the parallel guides to ensure square corners and clean edges, which are critical to the LR 32 system. It also helped to reduce the weight of the plywood. I had previously tried to create the hole pattern on my work bench, but totally messed up and wound up with holes that aren't perpendicular and also not in straight lines. The work bench top is only 1.5" thick, but it was too thick for the Festool clamps to work properly.
Once I figured out the LR32 and found some time to perform the MFT "duplication" work, the results were awesome. Since I am no longer limited by the proportions of the MFT/3 I am a much happier camper. When I want to cross cut boards that are 8' long I am in good shape. Since my MFT surface supports the full length of the board, I no longer have to worry about the off cut falling of the table. Yes, there are many other ways to deal with that issue, but I'm very happy with my solution. I also don't have to worry about the depth of the holes since the holes close to the front and rear edges are roughly 36" apart. I have plenty of cross cut capacity now.
I will agree to a certain extent that the parallel guides are a bit finicky, and it really helps to have to make lots of cuts of the same size. The way I personally worked with a table saw was pretty similar, however. I start with a rough idea and measurements for my projects, but usually adapt to how things happen as I work my way through. I always wound up "sneaking up" to the right cut before I was able to crank out a bunch of similarly sized pieces on the table saw. I don't see the parallel guides as being that much different for me. Once I get to the size I need, I can crank out several pieces with either the table saw (when I had it) or now with the Festool setup. The big advantage the table saw had over the parallel guides was the stability issue. I know there are lots of potential solutions for increasing the stability of the Festool parallel guides, and I will pursue one of those solutions in the near future. I am just giddy after finally having an MFT type table that is big enough to make my hobby easier. I wanted to have one success under my belt before embarking on the next solution.
Sorry this was so long, but I figured I would try to return some of the knowledge I've gained here. For my workshop and the type of work I do I can work without a table saw. There are times I get starry eyed looking at the various table saws out there, and I would have really enjoyed that Saw Stop I passed on. After having lived through the frustration of such a limited space I am confident that I made the right choice by going to a mainly Festool shop.
Thanks,
Justin
mavrick1903
Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Messages
- 141
Thanks for all the feedback. I've decided to go with the popular vote, a table saw. I figure I wont always be in my current shop, and during my "woodworking in earnest" months (read: winter) I've got the space to afford it. riding season is a little harder, but I've been working around it. I might shorten the aircraft carrier, but we'll see. (current version of the table saw is 96" wide)
narrowboatboy
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2011
- Messages
- 60
If space was an issue i would go for the Festool and a good full sheet sized table option,
