Setting up the guide rail and fence on the Festool MFT

[arso_bg]

Hi,

Is there someone who has experience with "True Angle Tools" or "Exact Angle Squares"

This is the link to the products page -  http://www.compoundmiter.com/index.html

Are they worth the money?

Can they be used to set up the guide rail and fence on the Festool MFT?

Regards
A.G.

 

[Holzhacker]

Looks like gimmicky plastic junk. The stuff is cheap enough, you could probably go to an art supply store and get the equivalent. If you aren't used to doing crown mould expect to screw up some of it. No tool replaces experience.
First thing I do on a crown mould job is cut two templates at exact angles about 2' long with an inside corner on one end and an outside corner on the other. With those I can check the wall/ceiling at each corner for variance prior to cutting good pieces to nail up. The variance isn't going to be in the wood but in the wall. Often times to get a great joint it is necessary to vary the angle on a corner by 1 or 2 degrees. Using the templates I mentioned I can see how the piece to be nailed has to be cut.
Or you could buy a bunch of crappy DIY tools, try to use them for half a day and then those them into the bottom of a toolbox.  ;D
Oh wait a minute I went completely of track thinking about what the website said and not your post, Sorry.
As Festool told us in Lebanon, the MFT's come from the factory set to be square by placement of the stops (that we are not supposed to move). As far as squaring it otherwise, there have been lots of good posts on the site for various squares guys like. Do a search maybe you'll find a particular square that suits your fancy.

 

[peter halle]

A.G,

You don't need that stuff to do crown.  That being said, doing crown on a MFT is probably not the easiest way to do it.  The biggest issue is that you will be cutting the crown on the flat which will require you to have to set the miter and the bevel and switch back and forth thru the project.  A miterbox would be much easier.

Regarding your question about squaring the rail to your MFT the answer would depend on which MFT model you have.  Do You have an older MFT or the newer MFT/3?  The procedures are different for each.

Peter

 

[clev1066]

Am I missing something??? I didn't notice the OP asking about cutting crown on the MFT. I think he was refering to using that unit to set up the fence to the rail for square.

OTOH, I would just use a large drafting triangle. They are accurate and cheap.

 

[peter halle]

It was my mistake.

I looked at the link and read a bit and they started talking about crown molding and my mind went one way when maybe it shouldn't have.

Peter

 

[MarkF]

Not my first choice either but if he has that protractor he would need to set it (securely) to 90 degrees and place it on a 12mm thick scrap piece of plywood to lift it up to touch  the sawguide and the miter fence similar to how I do it with a drafting triangle here:

 

[arso_bg]

Am I missing something??? I didn't notice the OP asking about cutting crown on the MFT. I think he was refering to using that unit to set up the fence to the rail for square.

This is exactly my point!

The company claims that their products are 0.001" exact. On a 24" x 24" triangle that is pretty cool .....especially for the money they ask.  So my question was: does anybody know these products? Are they really good?

Regards

A.G.

 

[mwhafner]

This is exactly my point!

The company claims that their products are 0.001" exact. On a 24" x 24" triangle that is pretty cool .....especially for the money they ask.  So my question was: does anybody know these products? Are they really good?

Regards

A.G.

I had a friend that bought one of these, to try to cut crown.  I ended up finishing the job.

I was not impressed at the functionality of device.  It was thin plastic, and was easily bent and the scale is very small.  I would look at some of the digital gauges on the market (Bosch and Wixey are easily found in the States). 

 

[arso_bg]

I am considering to buy a digital gauge...but to have a large triangle with a true 90 and 45 degrees is always handy

Especially if it does not cost a fortune

regards

A.G.

 

[mwhafner]

If 90* and 45* are adequate for your needs, then I wouldn't bother with a digital angle finder. 

 

[Jesus Aleman]

I think the 'level' of squareness will depend on what type of work you are doing.  How to square the guiderail/fence has been debated previously.  I suggest you do a search.  There is plenty of material.  There are two school of thought.  Once that uses a reference square (from machinist caliber to 5 dollar HD special, from 5" to 20" long) and one that relies primarily on test cuts (2 cut, 4 cut).  Some even use a combination.  I don't think there is any one method that is incorrect as long as you understand the limitation.  Again plenty of discussion in older threads.  I used to square the guiderail directly with the fence using a INCRA square and that worked until I wanted to get more precise work.  I think part of the issue is that I needed a longer square.  Now I use a slightly different method that is more work, but yields better results for me.   I relies on the precise location of the 20 mm hole pattern in the MFT.  

1) First I locate 2 sets of QWAS dogs on the long side of the table and butt the fence against them.  I lock the fence once I got the desire alignment.
2) Technically the guiderail should now be square to the fence.  I have found that this is not the case, especially if you removed the guide-rail from the swivel based since the last adjustment.  Remember there is some play when you are tightening the bolts that hold the guiderail in the swivel base.
3) I locate to QWAS dogs on the short side of the table.  You cannot butt the guide rail to the dogs.  You can use a parallel spacer (such as a straight edge) in between the dogs and the back of the rail for alignment, or you can also use a dial caliper to measure the distance between the guide rail and the dogs.  

I can get cut within 1/500" when I use the rail on the long side of the MFT (55") and make sure that I take all the play out of the rail.  There are perhaps easier methods, but this one works for me so far.  A few issues to consider:  1) I bought an extra 55" rail so I don't every remove the rails from the swivel bases.  In essence I have a set of rails for the MFT and one for the parallel guide.  2) Straight edges are not necessarily parallel, 3) you don't need to use QWAS dogs.  There are a bunch of alternatives here.  Do a search on this topic as well.

Anyways, to answer your question.  Reference instruments (square, straight edge, dial caliper, etc) are expensive, but all are fundamental if you are trying to setup your equipment correctly.  The HD $5 will do if you are building decks.  Otherwise, I suggest you invest on a few quality reference instruments.

PS. I you are only looking for 90 and 45 angle cuts, you may be better off with the parallel guides.

Cheers.

 

[arso_bg]

I am afraid there is a big misunderstanding.

I did not ask in general how to square the fence and the guide rail on the MFT or what kind of methods people are using to do it.
 
My question was about the quality of a particular product range that I found on the net - large squares and triangles which the producer claims to be produced within very strict tolerances (.001") and could be probably used to square fast (fast does not mean approximate) the fence and the guide rail on the MFT(1080/800).

Maybe someone knows these products and could give us some comments in respect to their quality or recommend even better options.

Regards
A.G.

 

[mwhafner]

I am afraid there is a big misunderstanding.

I did not ask in general how to square the fence and the guide rail on the MFT or what kind of methods people are using to do it.
 
My question was about the quality of a particular product range that I found on the net - large squares and triangles which the producer claims to be produced within very strict tolerances (.001") and could be probably used to square fast (fast does not mean approximate) the fence and the guide rail on the MFT(1080/800).

Maybe someone knows these products and could give us some comments in respect to their quality or recommend even better options.

Regards
A.G.

Ok, let me rephrase  - cheap, flimsy, and hard to read.

I think we, collectively, were just trying to offer other options.

 

[greg mann]

Reference tools can only give you assurance of accuracy within the length of the tool itself. Industry standard tolerances for straightness of aluminum extrusions is .015" per foot. While Festool guiderails are usually much better than this, you need to keep in mind that you can only be assured of accuracy over the distance you can cover with the insrument itself. The highly touted Starret square has one leg that is only about 4 inches long. While it is true that you can assume a certain degree of accuracy beyond four inches, the instrument itself 'does not know' if your workpiece edges are straight beyond the original four inches. The same holds true for longer reference edges: 1 foot, two feet, etc. The longer you need to maintain accuracy the more likely you will need to invoke some other form of measurement, like measuring across corners diagonally. Even there you then need to scratch your head carefully to determine which corner(s) are out of square. If you don't have have four corners then using 3,4,5 triangular measurements can help check squareness. Roger Salvatorri calls this "good setup hygiene". Don't just check your setup, check your results. Best advice I've ever read.

FWIW, I have that particular protractor and, for what it is, it ain't bad. The problem is that the markings are just too close to the pivot point. Even if you think you have a good reading you can't project it out too far and expect really accurate results. This tool was designed for measuring two lines over about 16 inches or so and then making crown cuts that only cover about 3 or four inches in the corner. You are now only about two times the length between the markings on the protractor and the pivot point but your measurement was taken off two lines that were projected out 4 times further. This helps your measurement for crown because you are measuring a greater span than you are cutting. One cannot expect the opposite to be true. That is, don't expect to set this protractor on 90 degrees (or 45) with that little scale in the corner and then have 4 foot long miters come out on the money. Won't happen. 

 

[greymann]

I want to revisit this thread.  I came across the setup squares the OP was talking about before searching out this thread.  And like he tried to get across, he is NOT talking about the protractor they sell or anything else to do with crown moldings at all. For those needing some help finding the product he was referring to the URL to that page is http://www.compoundmiter.com/squares.html.

I thought it was worth a shot and so ordered the 24x24 setup square for $23.95.  It arrived today and the only thing not as advertised is that it measured 23.5x23.5.  I have the Woodpecker 1281 and had spent a "long" time using it to setup my table that I've discussed elsewhere.  When I set this square on my table, the square said it was a perfect 90 degrees which was reassuring.  The square also passed the "draw a line, flip and repeat" test.

Time will tell how it holds up, I know I have to be more careful with it than a similarly sized aluminum square.  But I could also replace it four times and still be well ahead of the game.  At this point I am not so anxiously awaiting Woodpecker to revive their Precision Square.  I may however go back to Compound Miter and pick up the 24" 45 degree triangle as it may prove to be stronger and more stable.  YMMV.

Dick

 

[sancho57]

Hi,

Is there someone who has experience with "True Angle Tools" or "Exact Angle Squares"

This is the link to the products page -  http://www.compoundmiter.com/index.html

Are they worth the money?

Can they be used to set up the guide rail and fence on the Festool MFT?

Regards
A.G.

I was using one when I first got my MFT.

No good for that buddy, cant read the scale and it isnt ridgid enough. its about 1/16 thick piece of plastic

 

[arso_bg]

Hi all

I already bought a precision square here in Europe, so the "Exact Angle Squares" are not interesting for me anymore. 

Thank you all for your replies.

Regards

 

[greymann]

I'll try one more time but I feel like the OP must have felt that I'm pushing a rope.  Anyone who commented about setting an angle and/or reading a scale didn't read carefully enough, didn't look at the website and just assumed they knew what he was referring to.  That was why I added the exact page address.  He was talking about a product that is simply a bare L-shaped piece of plastic with no lettering of any kind on it.  It is simply a plastic setup square that seems to be cut very accurately.  There are a lot of things that it would not be substantial enough for but setting the angle between the rail and the fence seems within its capabilities.

If anyone needs a long setup square and can't find or afford a large (18-26") aluminum precision square, I think it could fill the bill.  Again, YMMV.

Dick