Shipping Damage

[marrt]

I recently ordered two used Festool products from different people and both items arrived with shipping damage.  One item had travelled upside down and experienced damage to the tool (mostly cosmetic) and the plastic insert was broken.  On the other item, two corners of the systainer were cracked.

I need to order some new stuff so I have a question.  Do any online dealers double box the products?  Also, what about opening the systainer and inserting some packing material so the tool isn't "floating around" inside the systainer.  For convenience, I'd like to order from online dealers.  But with 2 out of 3 orders arriving damaged I'm a little scared.

 

[dsweetser]

Try Burns Tools in RI.  I've never had an issue.

Don

 

[Tom Ryan]

A few months ago, I bought a MFT extension from Bob Marino.  The packing was impressive.  The inner box was the original (from the factory) box, which was pretty sturdy (double corrugated cardboard).  That box was wrapped in a long string of air pillows, then put in a larger box.  The outer box looked like it had been dropped from a significant height (bottom smashed like it had been dropped on a corner).  But the inner box was in perfect shape, as was the MFT extension. 

Nobody can pack something so well that it will be absolutely guaranteed to survive being shipped, but Bob comes close.  I think that some of the other online dealers are also good, but I don't have any experience with them.

Tom in Central PA

 

[clintholeman]

I've ordered a bunch of stuff from Bob M. and it has shipped to a winky little town in Northern Califormia and I've never had a problem.  He is the "go to guy", IMO.  [big grin]

 

[Brice Burrell]

I've ordered a bunch of stuff from Bob M. and it has shipped to a winky little town in Northern Califormia and I've never had a problem.  He is the "go to guy", IMO.  [big grin]

Yeah, I bet Bob M. gets a nice Christmas card from his a bubble wrap supplier each year.

 

[harry_]

I have never had a problem with Bob M.

 

[tigger]

LOL @ Brice  [big grin]

 

[Neill]

Marrt,

I have to believe that most, if not all, Festool dealers package their products very well.  I know that my first (and only) Festool purchase was from CPO and was well packaged as have been products I purchased from Bob, Timmy C. and Tom Bellemare.  Even non-Festool purchases I have made from Tom were received in outstanding condition.  I believe the quality of the dealer is apparent in all that they do.

Unfortunately, while the shipper may have in fact damaged the goods in transit, I believe that the seller is somewhat responsible for not packaging your purchase properly.  That is another risk we assume when purchasing on e-bay or similar websites.

Neill

 

[Bob Marino]

In my experience with shipping  Festool products; there are 2 items most prone to UPS  damage - MFT's and rails. We try our best to be as protective as possible, overpacking everything, but there are times when shipping (even with a double box and extra packaging) an MFT rail or extrusion gets dented@#@$%^&. Same with the standard  rails. Getting the customer a new rail or profile ASAP is imperative.  We have also started shipping the 75" and shorter rails with 1x2's inside the box for additional support.
As I am writing this, my gent overseeing the packaging sent me this email -"It wouldn't hurt if UPS didn't treat the shipments so rough to begin with either.  I would like to take a few pictures of some of the crap they have destroyed and caption it ? See What Brown Can Do For YOU!?.

Bob

 

[Neill]

In my experience with shipping  Festool products; there are 2 items most prone to UPS  damage - MFT's and rails. We try our best to be as protective as possible, overpacking everything, but there are times when shipping (even with a double box and extra packaging) an MFT rail or extrusion gets dented@#@$%^&. Same with the standard  rails. Getting the customer a new rail or profile ASAP is imperative.  We have also started shipping the 75" and shorter rails with 1x2's inside the box for additional support.
As I am writing this, my gent overseeing the packaging sent me this email -"It wouldn't hurt if UPS didn't treat the shipments so rough to begin with either.  I would like to take a few pictures of some of the crap they have destroyed and caption it ? See What Brown Can Do For YOU!?.

Bob

Bob,

As usual, great post & very informative.

Neill

 

[tbellemare]

In my experience, "Brown is Brutal!"

Wood Junkie was looking for a FS 1080/2 LR 32. I have one but it's bent pretty severly. Thank you Brown!

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

In my experience, "Brown is Brutal!"

Wood Junkie was looking for a FS 1080/2 LR 32. I have one but it's bent pretty severly. Thank you Brown!

Tom

Tom,

A1+. In your experience, would you agree with me that the rails (particularly the 75's and under) are the Festool items  most prone to UPS damage?

Bob

 

[Neill]

Tom & Bob,

Being a CPA I have done tax returns for people in various walks of life.  One of the things you cannot help but notice is how much people make.  I consider this confidential information that I do not discuss with anyone, even my spouse.

Not that it is an excuse, but I can tell you that FedEx and UPS employees are among the lowest paid individuals I have encountered.  They lug heavy packages all day up and down stairs, often times in less than desirable neighborhoods, for not a whole lot more than minimum wage.  And they are pressured to complete their route regardless of the circumstances of traffic, mechanical breakdowns, etc.

I cannot recall about FedEx but UPS trucks are not even equipped with air conditioning, or at least they didn't used to be.  To compound the problem their vehicles have opaque roofs to provide interior lighting but that also increases the vehicle's interior temperature.

I know it's hard to be sympathetic when the package you are sending or receiving is mangled in shipping and we should probably direct our displeasure to the "system" or the "economy" but not necessarily the employee.

Neill

 

[Bob Marino]

Tom & Bob,

Being a CPA I have done tax returns for people in various walks of life.  One of the things you cannot help but notice is how much people make.  I consider this confidential information that I do not discuss with anyone, even my spouse.

Not that it is an excuse, but I can tell you that FedEx and UPS employees are among the lowest paid individuals I have encountered.  They lug heavy packages all day up and down stairs, often times in less than desirable neighborhoods, for not a whole lot more than minimum wage.  And they are pressured to complete their route regardless of the circumstances of traffic, mechanical breakdowns, etc.

I cannot recall about FedEx but UPS trucks are not even equipped with air conditioning, or at least they didn't used to be.  To compound the problem their vehicles have opaque roofs to provide interior lighting but that also increases the vehicle's interior temperature.

I know it's hard to be sympathetic when the package you are sending or receiving is mangled in shipping and we should probably direct our displeasure to the "system" or the "economy" but not necessarily the employee.

Neill

Neill,

I am sympathetic - to any and all working hard and even more so when the wages aren't particularly good. As an aside, here in NJ, I think the wages are pretty good (though I can be way off base). However, I have seen my UPS driver just walk over a carton, rather than pick it up. I understand that it's just one anecdotal example, but it does stick with me. Also, you would think that more (any) care would taken with oversize boxes, IMHO it's just the opposite. Larger boxes get the most abuse. Anyhow, this is life and I try to work around (overpacking) items as best I can.

Bob

 

[James Metcalf]

Just one more Thank You to Bob. I also have been one who has benefited from the extra packing you have made happen over the years. My tools thank you also.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

I greatly appreciate the service both companies (and also USPS!) provide.  I thank them every time I see a delivery driver at our house.

But... here's a true story...

About two years ago I orded a Bosch 4410 SCMS via Amazon...  Free shipping, via UPS...

So, after about a week or so the saw hadn't shown up, even though it said delivered.  I contact UPS-- Lost package.  Contact Amazon-- We'll ship another and get UPS to track down the first.  Fine with me, kudos for the cross-shipping customer service.  By coincidence something else showed up that day that I definitely hadn't ordered.  I called and UPS reclaimed it.

About 10 days later a box shows up on my doorstep.  It's been abused a good bit, but the Bosch internal packaging held up.  Saw was undamaged and all parts were present.  Fine by me.  The styrofoam corners and (substantial) support system was mostly intact.  You know, this is a 50+ lb saw.

The very next day my first order shows up....
Turns out the label fell off in Denver (it was mid-winter) and someone slapped the wrong label onto it (the other package whose label also fell off) and my saw went for a side trip.  Upon being delivered to my porch it looked like it had been dropped from a plane, run over by a cement truck, and dragged 100 yards on cobblestones...  Three times..

The box was *_trashed_*.  The cardboard was torn in about a dozen places, and one whole corner (the length of that corner... ~22") was ripped apart.  The only reason it was still a "package" was because there was about 2 lbs of packing tape holding the whole thing together... But even much of that was ripped.  Where ripped, crushed styrofoam was leaking out of the box.  I shifted it around in my porch and physically felt the saw moving around inside the box.  It had about 8 UPS stickers all over it.  I would describe it as a "soft and squishy" package...  It was bruised in so many ways it looked like it'd been beating with a baseball bat, by the whole baseball team.

I didn't dare open it, at risk of UPS refusing to reclaim it.  Amazon arranged for them to reclaim it (which they did) and ship it back to the origination address....  Four days later it was back on my porch...  WTH?!  I had to have them pick it up again after explaining that it needed to go back to the original origination address:  Amazon!  They kept putting me as the shipper, since it was shipping "from" me... oh man.

Needless to say, I often will pony up for FedEx shipping if its available.  I think the white boxes somehow encourage more careful handling.

I still thank the guys in brown... 'cuz they're often delivering Festool. 

 

[Wood_Junkie]

Bob's use of bubble wrap and those air-packs is ridonkulous.  I could build a raft.. for my whole family.  But, not one tool, Systainer, or accessory damaged yet.  Can't say the same for the exterior boxes.  

Bob is at least 8-0, versus UPS.  Yay Bob!

 

[Bob Marino]

I greatly appreciate the service both companies (and also USPS!) provide.  I thank them every time I see a delivery driver at our house.

But... here's a true story...

The very next day my first order shows up....
Turns out the label fell off in Denver (it was mid-winter) and someone slapped the wrong label onto it (the other package whose label also fell off) and my saw went for a side trip.  Upon being delivered to my porch it looked like it had been dropped from a plane, run over by a cement truck, and dragged 100 yards on cobblestones...  Three times..

The box was *_trashed_*.  The cardboard was torn in about a dozen places, and one whole corner (the length of that corner... ~22") was ripped apart.  The only reason it was still a "package" was because there was about 2 lbs of packing tape holding the whole thing together... But even much of that was ripped.  Where ripped, crushed styrofoam was leaking out of the box.  I shifted it around in my porch and physically felt the saw moving around inside the box.  It had about 8 UPS stickers all over it.  I would describe it as a "soft and squishy" package...  It was bruised in so many ways it looked like it'd been beating with a baseball bat, by the whole baseball team.

I didn't dare open it, at risk of UPS refusing to reclaim it.  Amazon arranged for them to reclaim it (which they did) and ship it back to the origination address....  Four days later it was back on my porch...  WTH?!  I had to have them pick it up again after explaining that it needed to go back to the original origination address:  Amazon!  They kept putting me as the shipper, since it was shipping "from" me... oh man.

Good story - but my problem with UPS in your instance, would be that they would be allowed to deliver a box in such a sorry state without having the driver issue an on the spot, formalized notice of said damage. Perhaps, in your case they met you at the door, but in any cases like this, they drop it off and run for the hills, leaving the customer...and shipper with a mess to sort out.

Bob

 

[tbellemare]

I agree with you, Bob, that the most likely to be damaged items are MFTs & Guide Rails.

I have no beef with the people who work for any of the shipping concerns, except possibly, with management. Management sets the tone and the policies. I used to use UPS and I found them very difficult to work with so I switched to FedEx and I've been pretty happy since. Occasionally, something happens that isn't ideal but they seem to try to work with me to fix it. I never got that from Brown.

My regular drivers work hard and long. Sometimes they do things that I would like to chastise them for right in front of me, the customer. I just ask them to note the damage to the packaging so that when I unpack it after they leave and find out they've smashed a systainer and damaged its contents, I will have a record of noting the condition upon arrival.

Shipping is somewhat of a crap shoot but with reasonable precautions, the vast majority of shipments make it OK.

If something is shipped haphazardly, it will be lucky if it arrives intact. Even with extreme caution, sometimes things go wrong.

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

Ok, just got a call from my customer - UPS deliver a KAPEX and rail. Delivered about 2 pm today. Weather - extremely cloudy/ rain impending. Where did they leave it - under the porch where it could be protected from the impending rail, or outside in the back, under the open, gray sky? You guessed it - out  in the open, rained like crazy and the (double) boxes soaked. Luckily, the Kapex  appeared dry/no visible damage, but wth are these drivers thinking? Also, with impending rain/snow, all boxes should be placed in plastic bags if they are to be left outside. Extremely poor UPS protocol.  

Bob