Should I get a festool sander? Which one?

[adrianm]

Mahalahomecraft, I'm confused about which papers you actually use for what. 

It seems like granat is stearated and therefore should be suitable for sanding finishes or painted surfaces, but not advantageous for bare wood.  I'm not sure what distinguishes Rubin from Brilliant. 

One thing I noticed is that no fine papers are available for DTS 400, and fine papers are available for RO90 (platin and granat) but only in the round shape, not for the triangular head. 

Is there any possibility of using non-festool papers with these sanders? 

 

[leakyroof]

Mahalahomecraft, I'm confused about which papers you actually use for what.  

It seems like granat is stearated and therefore should be suitable for sanding finishes or painted surfaces, but not advantageous for bare wood.   I'm not sure what distinguishes Rubin from Brilliant.  

One thing I noticed is that no fine papers are available for DTS 400, and fine papers are available for RO90 (platin and granat) but only in the round shape, not for the triangular head.  

Is there any possibility of using non-festool papers with these sanders?  

Rubin is for bare wood, Brilliant 2 and Granat can be used on bare wood , drywall compound, paint and finishes.
I have tried some non-Festool abrasives in grits or sizes that I wanted, they usually work out pretty well.
I'll have to check on the Granat selection for the DTS400, as it sounds like you want higher grits than what is offered.

 

[semenza]

Mahalahomecraft, I'm confused about which papers you actually use for what. 

It seems like granat is stearated and therefore should be suitable for sanding finishes or painted surfaces, but not advantageous for bare wood.   I'm not sure what distinguishes Rubin from Brilliant. 

One thing I noticed is that no fine papers are available for DTS 400, and fine papers are available for RO90 (platin and granat) but only in the round shape, not for the triangular head. 

Is there any possibility of using non-festool papers with these sanders? 

One difference between Rubin and Brilliant is that Rubin has a much heavier backing than Brilliant. It can with stand much more abuse and I find the stiffness  to be helpful when it comes to flattening. The Brilliant will have a "softer" effect and follow slight anomalies in the wood better.

The DX93  abrasives are the ones that fit the RO90 delta pad. Available up to 400gr.

Seth

 

[adrianm]

So is there any way to get finer than 400 grit with the RO90 delta pad? 

 

[MahalaHomecraft]

I use rubin and brilliant for bare wood, brilliant for finishes, and it was actually the saphir for aggressive stuff.  I bought all my paper in large quantities when I got the sander, so I never need to actually refer back to the names, hence the confusion.  Once I'm up to 400 on brilliant, i go to those thick pads which i still have no idea what they're called.

I can't imagine much need for finer than 400 on the delta pad.  Considering the small radius of the ro90, if you use the round pad as far into each corner as you can, you'll be left with a 45mm unsanded triangle in each corner.  If there are 4 such corners, you're talking about 2 45mm squares, roughly the cross section of a 2x4 over an entire project.  And that's only if you have 4 inside corners.  If you really need it you could just cut a piece out of something else for an area so small.

 

[Scott B.]

I use rubin and brilliant for bare wood, brilliant for finishes, and it was actually the saphir for aggressive stuff.  I bought all my paper in large quantities when I got the sander, so I never need to actually refer back to the names, hence the confusion.  Once I'm up to 400 on brilliant, i go to those thick pads which i still have no idea what they're called.

I can't imagine much need for finer than 400 on the delta pad.  Considering the small radius of the ro90, if you use the round pad as far into each corner as you can, you'll be left with a 45mm unsanded triangle in each corner.  If there are 4 such corners, you're talking about 2 45mm squares, roughly the cross section of a 2x4 over an entire project.  And that's only if you have 4 inside corners.  If you really need it you could just cut a piece out of something else for an area so small.

What he said. Very well put.

Except I can only get my head around one abrasive, and that's Granat. Some of the others have heavier backing in lower grits, which is nice. But I am one of those who has to have the one that can do it all the best, across the board solutions. One color. One label to understand.

While I personally would probably still pick up the DTS in this situation, I love the argument for the 90. I love the RO90 too. Fine finish sanding is just not in its top 3 strengths, and that is solely a size and geometry issue. How about if Festool could just stamp out a DTS base plate attachment for the 90 for these awkward moments.

 

[Scott B.]

The RO90 solves me 20 problems at a high level.

The DTS400 solves me five critical problems at an extremely high level.

All depends what season it is. If its exterior season, the DTS is on vacation. The 90 carries that whole load. When its time to dress up nice and be sweet inside a house on a fine finish issue, the DTS goes to the dance.

DTS on fine to intermediate grade stuff all day long. 90 for the rest.

 

[adrianm]

So if I understand right you're saying that I would, when sanding at a finer grit than 400, just sand as close to the corner as I can and then finish off by hand?  

This raises the question about what the point of the delta pad is at all, if I could just always finish off the small corner areas by hand.  

It seems like the DTS won't do what I want since it's limited to 400 grit.

 

[Scott B.]

So if I understand right you're saying that I would, when sanding at a finer grit than 400, just sand as close to the corner as I can and then finish off by hand?  

This raises the question about what the point of the delta pad is at all, if I could just always finish off the small corner areas by hand.  

It seems like the DTS won't do what I want since it's limited to 400 grit.

What are you doing that is requiring 400? We do fine finish and rarely top out that high.

 

[Jmaichel]

I actually just wrote an article on the DTS 400 for a woodworking Ezine that I started. Here is the link to the first issue.

I think the ETS 150 and DTS 400 are the perfect Festool Sander Combination, especially for a hobbyist who builds furniture. I really don't see many uses for the aggressiveness of the Rotex model sanders. For the price of an RO 150 you can have both the ETS 150 and DTS 400. Granat works very well on painted surfaces as well as bare wood. I like using the new Rubin 2 as well but you could really just use Granat for all your sanding and have excellent results.

James

 

[Scott B.]

I actually just wrote an article on the DTS 400 for a woodworking Ezine that I started. http://weekendwarriorwoodworking.com/first-issue-weekend-warrior-woodworking-magazine-published/Here is the link to the first issue.

I think the ETS 150 and DTS 400 are the perfect Festool Sander Combination, especially for a hobbyist who builds furniture. I really don't see many uses for the aggressiveness of the Rotex model sanders. For the price of an RO 150 you can have both the ETS 150 and DTS 400. Granat works very well on painted surfaces as well as bare wood. I like using the new Rubin 2 as well but you could really just use Granat for all your sanding and have excellent results.

James

That is a good combo. I would recommend the 150/5 just in case you need to throw some 60g on and sand the deck.

 

[adrianm]

[/quote]

What are you doing that is requiring 400? We do fine finish and rarely top out that high.
[/quote]

I usually sand bare wood to 180.  The first coat of shellac or water based finish raises the grain and I hand sand probably P320.  Then I hand sand between subsequent coats of shellac or waterbase finish with P600 or P800.  Then I rub out the finish with 0000 steel wool or Mirka Mirlon Total, either 1500 or 2500 (though I don't know if those numbers are in the same system).  It seems like with a powered sander I'd run a greater risk of sanding my finish completely off if I went to coarser grits.  I find that sanding between finish coats is probably 90% of the work of applying finish, and it's most of the sanding that I do.

Note that with fine paper, the P grits are much coarser than the American standard labels which is kind of confusing, so 320 grit American roughly corresponds to P500 and 400 grit to P1000.

When I clicked on the Weekend Warrior magazine I got a 404 error. 

 

[Scott B.]

What are you doing that is requiring 400? We do fine finish and rarely top out that high.
[/quote]

I usually sand bare wood to 180.  The first coat of shellac or water based finish raises the grain and I hand sand probably P320.  Then I hand sand between subsequent coats of shellac or waterbase finish with P600 or P800.  Then I rub out the finish with 0000 steel wool or Mirka Mirlon Total, either 1500 or 2500 (though I don't know if those numbers are in the same system).  It seems like with a powered sander I'd run a greater risk of sanding my finish completely off if I went to coarser grits.   I find that sanding between finish coats is probably 90% of the work of applying finish, and it's most of the sanding that I do.

Note that with fine paper, the P grits are much coarser than the American standard labels which is kind of confusing, so 320 grit American roughly corresponds to P500 and 400 grit to P1000.

When I clicked on the Weekend Warrior magazine I got a 404 error. 

[/quote]

I say this with all due respect for what I am sure is a nice result, but I think you are sanding too much and using more grits than needed to get to an excellent finish. Maybe its just semantics, but it sounds like alot.

 

[adrianm]

I think the ETS 150 and DTS 400 are the perfect Festool Sander Combination, especially for a hobbyist who builds furniture. I really don't see many uses for the aggressiveness of the Rotex model sanders. For the price of an RO 150 you can have both the ETS 150 and DTS 400. Granat works very well on painted surfaces as well as bare wood. I like using the new Rubin 2 as well but you could really just use Granat for all your sanding and have excellent results.

I tracked down your article despite the broken link.  You say that the Rotex aggressiveness isn't needed by someone like me, and I think I agree.  But the RO90 has the other modes---you don't have to use the agressive mode.  Having an extra rarely used mode doesn't hurt.  Do you see the DTS 400 as better than the RO90 because of lower weight?  I noticed that the combination of ETS 125 and DTS400 is actually about the same as RO90.  Why is the ETS 125 so dramatically much cheaper than the ETS 150?  Is there some difference beyond just the size?  I also noticed that the ETS models don't include the edge guard that the RO90 includes.  (I don't know how useful this edge guard really is in practice.) 

 

[jacko9]

I think the ETS 150 and DTS 400 are the perfect Festool Sander Combination, especially for a hobbyist who builds furniture. I really don't see many uses for the aggressiveness of the Rotex model sanders. For the price of an RO 150 you can have both the ETS 150 and DTS 400. Granat works very well on painted surfaces as well as bare wood. I like using the new Rubin 2 as well but you could really just use Granat for all your sanding and have excellent results.

I tracked down your article despite the broken link.  You say that the Rotex aggressiveness isn't needed by someone like me, and I think I agree.  But the RO90 has the other modes---you don't have to use the agressive mode.  Having an extra rarely used mode doesn't hurt.   Do you see the DTS 400 as better than the RO90 because of lower weight?  I noticed that the combination of ETS 125 and DTS400 is actually about the same as RO90.  Why is the ETS 125 so dramatically much cheaper than the ETS 150?  Is there some difference beyond just the size?  I also noticed that the ETS models don't include the edge guard that the RO90 includes.  (I don't know how useful this edge guard really is in practice.)  

The ETS 150-3 is a much heavier duty sander and the 6" size will finish a large surface much faster than the ETS 125.  I have the ETS 125, ETS 150-3, LS130  and the RO90.  The linear sander is a specialty tool but with the other three the ETS 125 sits on the shelf until I need to do a lot of vertical sanding.

Jack

 

[Jmaichel]

I think the ETS 150 and DTS 400 are the perfect Festool Sander Combination, especially for a hobbyist who builds furniture. I really don't see many uses for the aggressiveness of the Rotex model sanders. For the price of an RO 150 you can have both the ETS 150 and DTS 400. Granat works very well on painted surfaces as well as bare wood. I like using the new Rubin 2 as well but you could really just use Granat for all your sanding and have excellent results.

I tracked down your article despite the broken link.  You say that the Rotex aggressiveness isn't needed by someone like me, and I think I agree.  But the RO90 has the other modes---you don't have to use the agressive mode.  Having an extra rarely used mode doesn't hurt.   Do you see the DTS 400 as better than the RO90 because of lower weight?  I noticed that the combination of ETS 125 and DTS400 is actually about the same as RO90.  Why is the ETS 125 so dramatically much cheaper than the ETS 150?  Is there some difference beyond just the size?  I also noticed that the ETS models don't include the edge guard that the RO90 includes.  (I don't know how useful this edge guard really is in practice.) 

Sorry about that. I have now fixed the link. For the reasons that Jack mentioned plus the DTS 400 can be used one handed and I am not sure about the RO 90. For me this is a big positive for the DTS 400.

 

[MahalaHomecraft]

The 150/5 is the nicest sander I've ever used.  I only got it recently, but it's a quantum leap above the 125.  I'm considering selling the 125 but I will probably opt to keep it and sell all of my older (non-festool) sanders instead, because the 125 is still way better than all the non-festool sanders I have, and as far as festool goes it's super cheap (I got mine used for 130).  While it doesn't have the edge protectors, the ets 150 runs so smoothly that control is never an issue.  The ro90 is easy enough to control once you get used to it, but not to the point where I would say control is NEVER an issue.  This is to say that you could fall asleep using the 150 and still not have any trouble operating it, and that's just not true of the ro90.  I have no experience with the dts400, but it's a festool, so I'm sure it rocks.  I also can't deny that the combination of the dts and an ets is the same price as just the ro90 is a huge selling point, but the fact that the ro90 can be the only sander you have is also a big draw.  

I will say this, though:  if you really think that you'll only be using the rotary mode on the rarest occasions, that might tip the scales in favor of getting the 2 sanders in lieu of the one.  The fact that they come in systainers and you can lock them together and only carry one handle anyway kinda makes it not matter that you need 2.  And if you wanna get really saucy now you have the option to dual wield.

 

[adrianm]

What makes the 150/5 a quantum leap above the 125?  I mean, how is it different other than being 150 mm instead of 125 mm?  I suppose the stroke length is different, with the 125 being 2mm instead of 5 mm.  But presumably it would make more sense for my application with the focus on finer work to get a 150/3 were I to go that route.  Is there anything else that distinguishes the 125 from the 150? 

I borrowed my buddy's Bosch random orbital sander to play around with.  One thing I noticed was that the sander tends to wobble around, so it's pretty hard to sand into a corner where two boards meet because the edge of the tool is always moving.  Is this the nature of the random orbital sander?  Or would this task be easy to do with a festool?  Or do you need a non-random orbit sander like the DTS 400 to do this task easily? 

 

[MahalaHomecraft]

mostly i base my statement about the 150 on "the way it feels," but i think i can elaborate a little…

first, as you said, it's bigger.  bigger saves time.

second, as you also said, the 5mm stroke… it's still produces great finish results, but can still work quickly.  so all this hand sanding you're used to doing… instead you can now do 1 quick pass with the 150.  maybe with the 125 you need 2 quick passes.  that's twice as many passes, and with the reduced size, make that maybe 2.5 passes per unit area with the 125 to 1 pass per unit area with the 150.  for a large project, this could mean an hour of sanding vs.  2.5 hours.

third, the pistol grip is just dope.  you can use this grip over most of the surface (though it may be better to use two hands against edges) and the already low vibration is reduced even further by your hand being away from the motor.

Maybe "quantum leap" is a bit much, but I think these things really add up.  Bottom line, the 150 is a pleasure to use like I've never before experienced.  Try it out in the store and maybe you'll feel the same.

Also, I found out that those 1/2" thick pads i was talking about are in fact the platin abrasives.  If you're using festool paper you'll be using their grits, so if you're asking about using p400 then the regular 400 should be way finer than that.  So either way that shouldn't create an issue, right?

 

[leakyroof]

What are you doing that is requiring 400? We do fine finish and rarely top out that high.
[/quote]

I usually sand bare wood to 180.  The first coat of shellac or water based finish raises the grain and I hand sand probably P320.  Then I hand sand between subsequent coats of shellac or waterbase finish with P600 or P800.  Then I rub out the finish with 0000 steel wool or Mirka Mirlon Total, either 1500 or 2500 (though I don't know if those numbers are in the same system).  It seems like with a powered sander I'd run a greater risk of sanding my finish completely off if I went to coarser grits.   I find that sanding between finish coats is probably 90% of the work of applying finish, and it's most of the sanding that I do.

Note that with fine paper, the P grits are much coarser than the American standard labels which is kind of confusing, so 320 grit American roughly corresponds to P500 and 400 grit to P1000.

When I clicked on the Weekend Warrior magazine I got a 404 error. 

[/quote]. Hmm, I tend to sand between coats with 400 or 600 grit Abranet from Mirka, but this is by hand with the vacuum assisted hand sanding blocks that I mentioned.  This is for varnish or water based finishes that I work with.
I would rather use my DTS400 with 400 grit Granat or my Ro90 or ETS150 with Platin if I was trying to use grits comparable to the Abranet AND a power sander instead of by hand. For tight corners, I would probably still touch up by hand and not bother with a Delta type sander if time wasn't a problem or I wasn't working on multiple pieces or a large surface.
Not sure if this helps you.
For Oil Finishes, it would be a totally different approach, esp. with burnishing oil finishes