Should I wait to buy the CXS 18 Drill kit? (new tabless batteries)

[mino]

The full voltage would be presented, but it probably wouldn't harm the actual motor too much as they're pretty forgiving with wild voltage swings, but depending on how the input clamping has been designed the controller board possibly may not survive.

A simple 7812 voltage regulator IC would solve this though, so long as it's not drawing more than 1A.

The C12 is definitely drawing more than 1A .. more like 30A, give or take and definitely capable of more if allowed to.

The C12 Li has an EC-TEC brushless motor with full-wave electronics. You cannot just shove higher voltage to it. *)

What you *can* do is replace the electronics board with one from the C18. The motor should be able to handle the voltage unless there is some nuance involved I am missing it is the same motor as on the C18, just running at a lower voltage.

*) in general terms, did not try nor have the schematic how the electronics on the C12 is setup, it *may* survive still


EDIT:
What is much more practical is messing tuning the new 12V packs to be accepted by the C12. I have no idea why Festool made them such the tabs make them physically incompatible.

 

[Coen]

This is likely a stupid question, but what would happen if an 18v battery for the CSX was used in the C12 (which is actually 10.8 volts)? Would it quickly burn out the motor, or would it only use 10.8v?

Regards from Perth

Derek

You would have to cut away some plastic at the very least to make them even fit..

The C12 is definitely drawing more than 1A .. more like 30A, give or take and definitely capable of more if allowed to.

He meant to have that regulator only for the control board itself.

 

[ScoFF]

Today I bought the CSX 18 basic, one 4.0 high power battery. When I get settled I’ll get the centrotec or central vac chuck and likely a bit holder (regular or locking, I haven’t decided) and the UNI version of the right angle attachment.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Today I bought the CSX 18 basic, one 4.0 high power battery. When I get settled I’ll get the centrotec or central vac chuck and likely a bit holder (regular or locking, I haven’t decided) and the UNI version of the right angle attachment.

Congrats! The right angle attachment is handier than you'd think, and I'd highly recommend the eccentric chuck to round it off, very useful!

 

[mino]

He meant to have that regulator only for the control board itself.

Yeah .. but the electronics is a full-current design as the tool is brushless, at least as far as I am aware .. so all the amps do and must go through it to generate the power curves for the motor.

 

[Cheese]

Today I bought the CSX 18 basic, one 4.0 high power battery. When I get settled I’ll get the centrotec or central vac chuck and likely a bit holder (regular or locking, I haven’t decided) and the UNI version of the right angle attachment.

Just be aware that the 4.0 high power battery has had some issues so make sure that at the first sign of problems, you send it off to Festool to make sure it's covered under warranty.

 

[ScoFF]

Just be aware that the 4.0 high power battery has had some issues so make sure that at the first sign of problems, you send it off to Festool to make sure it's covered under warranty.

What issue should I look out for ?

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Check and update the battery firmware using the Festool app on your phone.

 

[Cheese]

What issue should I look out for ?

Because of previous issues specifically with the 4.0 high power battery, only purchase them new so you get the full 3 year warranty. Update the firmware as Jim mentioned and keep an eye on being able to fully discharge and fully recharge the battery. Because I have 4 each of the 4.0 batteries I didn't pay attention to which one I was using. They are now out of warranty and 2 will recharge completely but the other 2 will only charge to the 60% level. The ones at the 60% level have only been charged about 20 times.

 

[Coen]

Because of previous issues specifically with the 4.0 high power battery, only purchase them new so you get the full 3 year warranty. Update the firmware as Jim mentioned and keep an eye on being able to fully discharge and fully recharge the battery. Because I have 4 each of the 4.0 batteries I didn't pay attention to which one I was using. They are now out of warranty and 2 will recharge completely but the other 2 will only charge to the 60% level. The ones at the 60% level have only been charged about 20 times.

So (at least) one bad cell that drags the pack down. The charging stops when the first cell reaches 4.2 (or 4.15, I don't know the exact threshold for Festool chargers / packs). And the discharging stops when the first cell reaches 2.5V (example, again; I don't know the threshold values Festool uses). When one cell is 50% degraded, the whole pack becomes 50%.

I have the Bosch equivalent 4.0 packs and I had one with a leaking cell with the four other cells being good; I replaced one cell and I now I have once against a fully functioning pack for $4 in material costs. I got another broken pack for free that had 1 dead cells and two somewhat degraded cells. I replaced all five for about $20 and voila.

By now the spot welder (Malectrics battery spot welder) has paid for itself. Anything I use it for now is pure profit.

 

[ScoFF]

You know...I've been using dewalt 20v tools and batteries for over 15 years and I've yet to have a problem with the tool or the battery. Nothing will die. Even my oldest crustiest 20v 1.3ah mattery just keeps going and charging and when it's in the drill/impact it lasts forever. The new batteries with smart things, bluetooth, firmware update...I'm not sure any of that's really necessary. I just want them to charge and discharge and last. Not looking forward to just getting through 3 years warranty. How about 15 years.

 

[Cheese]

You know...I've been using dewalt 20v tools and batteries for over 15 years and I've yet to have a problem with the tool or the battery. Nothing will die. Even my oldest crustiest 20v 1.3ah mattery just keeps going and charging and when it's in the drill/impact it lasts forever. The new batteries with smart things, bluetooth, firmware update...I'm not sure any of that's really necessary. I just want them to charge and discharge and last. Not looking forward to just getting through 3 years warranty. How about 15 years.

If you're happy with Dewalt then just stick with Dewalt. Heck, this tool isn't something that's a real game changer like a cordless ion-biometric accu-accumulator with hysteresis feed-back ...it's only a drill.

 

[Coen]

Even my oldest crustiest 20v 1.3ah mattery just keeps going and charging

Old as in 'that stupid time we didn't put cell monitoring in the pack'? The type that goes smoothly from 'keeps working' to burning down on the charger?

dewalt 20v [...] batteries

I've rebuild those too

In the same week I've upgraded a 15 year old Metabo 1.3 Ah pack (that was really 0.8 by then) to 2.5 Ah and a non-functioning DeWalt 4.0 pack to 5.0.

Ultimately they all use the same Samsung / LG / Sony / Panasonic cells. There is some variance in the BMS (like some that feed the BMS on one cell... and brick the pack that way), some variance in how well they can dissipate heat and that can all affect wear, but other than that... it's mostly the same.

 

[Imemiter]

Nothing will die. Even my oldest crustiest 20v 1.3ah mattery just keeps going and charging and when it's in the drill/impact it lasts forever.

This is a serious problem that needs addressing. If my current SCMS never dies, I'll never own a Kapex!

 

[luvmytoolz]

This is a serious problem that needs addressing. If my current SCMS never dies, I'll never own a Kapex!

Those pesky first world problems! ;-)

 

[Imemiter]

Those pesky first world problems! ;-)

Great tools are a curse!