Show me the way and the light for dovetails...
- Thread starter MathieuTN
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Hi Matt
If you are looking to make really fine woodwork and maybe create an heirloom then you need to learn the hand made method. In the UK you can do courses on this and in less than a week you can be doing very professional dovetails.
If you just want the strength of the dovetail but you need speed then you can go the dovetail router jig route. there are plenty on the market and most that I have seen do a pretty good job. I like the Leigh Jig but others may offer better options.
If you like the looks of the dovetail but do not want to put the effort in then go the jig route.
Good handmade dovetails look beautiful but bad ones look awful. The best jig made dovetails look almost like handmade but not quite. There is still scope with jig made dovetails to produce rubbish results but you have really work on making it look bad.
Professionals will have a number of "short cuts" to make truly brilliant hand made dovetails but they do use the odd machine to lighten the work and thus save a huge amount of time.
Peter
If you are looking to make really fine woodwork and maybe create an heirloom then you need to learn the hand made method. In the UK you can do courses on this and in less than a week you can be doing very professional dovetails.
If you just want the strength of the dovetail but you need speed then you can go the dovetail router jig route. there are plenty on the market and most that I have seen do a pretty good job. I like the Leigh Jig but others may offer better options.
If you like the looks of the dovetail but do not want to put the effort in then go the jig route.
Good handmade dovetails look beautiful but bad ones look awful. The best jig made dovetails look almost like handmade but not quite. There is still scope with jig made dovetails to produce rubbish results but you have really work on making it look bad.
Professionals will have a number of "short cuts" to make truly brilliant hand made dovetails but they do use the odd machine to lighten the work and thus save a huge amount of time.
Peter
Thistleman
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Try this, really got me going on hand cut dovetails, especially his YouTube channel
http://www.davidbarronfurniture.co.uk
http://www.davidbarronfurniture.co.uk
Mismarked
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I just started delving into this a couple of weeks ago. I had a Rockler jig sitting in the garage unused for a couple of years and decided to learn by hand first and then try the jig.
I agree with Holmz and Thistleman, except that it took me 15 hours to watch the David Barron videos, another 2 hours to watch the Rob Cosman videos, then a bunch of chisel sharpening videos, all of which are extremely addictive, and then a long time to actually cut each corner of my first drawer, with more video watching in between. So several days for one drawer.
The first drawer looked horrible, but I was very satisfied anyway. Did 3 more drawers with the Rockler jig, and knocked them out pretty fast. They look great at least to me. Much easier, less frustrating and slightly less satisfying. Now, though, I am going to do some more practicing by hand, and this time with some soft wood. Trying to learn the chisel thing with hard maple was frustrating.
The Woodcraft guy said he personally liked the Western saw but nevertheless recommended that I start with the Japanese saw, and I liked how it worked (it was also cheaper). I was surprised by how fast it cuts. I also would recommend getting the coping saw like they show in videos. Not much $$$ to save a lot of effort.
Of course, these are all recommendations from someone who has now finished a total of one bad drawer by hand and three decent ones with a jig. I can't show you the way and the light for dovetails per your original query, but maybe comments from someone still in the early stages of the learning curve will be helpful.
I agree with Holmz and Thistleman, except that it took me 15 hours to watch the David Barron videos, another 2 hours to watch the Rob Cosman videos, then a bunch of chisel sharpening videos, all of which are extremely addictive, and then a long time to actually cut each corner of my first drawer, with more video watching in between. So several days for one drawer.
The first drawer looked horrible, but I was very satisfied anyway. Did 3 more drawers with the Rockler jig, and knocked them out pretty fast. They look great at least to me. Much easier, less frustrating and slightly less satisfying. Now, though, I am going to do some more practicing by hand, and this time with some soft wood. Trying to learn the chisel thing with hard maple was frustrating.
The Woodcraft guy said he personally liked the Western saw but nevertheless recommended that I start with the Japanese saw, and I liked how it worked (it was also cheaper). I was surprised by how fast it cuts. I also would recommend getting the coping saw like they show in videos. Not much $$$ to save a lot of effort.
Of course, these are all recommendations from someone who has now finished a total of one bad drawer by hand and three decent ones with a jig. I can't show you the way and the light for dovetails per your original query, but maybe comments from someone still in the early stages of the learning curve will be helpful.
nclemmons
Member
Highly recommend the David Barron magnetic guides and a Japanese pull saw for hand cut dovetails.
Spend a little time practicing and I think they can provide you with a lot of satisfaction.
Spend a little time practicing and I think they can provide you with a lot of satisfaction.
Kev
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neilc said:
Spend a lot of time !!!
Something Like a high end Leigh jig will give you very attractive dovetails and also access to templates to create joints that are simply impossible by hand (this also has a learning curve).
Perfect hand cut dovetails are not easy. Setting your personal expectations to something realistic and learning how to refine and improve your joints over time will probably lead to less frustration [wink]
For me personally .. I'd lean towards mechanical assistance. I don't get enough time to refine skills (another frustration) and having something that produces a known result if set up correctly is of value to me. Longer term I'll try and develop better craft.
I think it all comes down to where you are in your journey [big grin]
Acrobat
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There's an Aussie made jig, so simple to use called the Gifkins dovetail jig. Small and easy, I have one and its a little ripper. (awesome).
It is used above the router table, not fixed like one of the big Leigh jigs and for a learner or anyone really easy peasy to use, you simply clamp your drawer timber to it, set a stop and route the tail or pin.
Very simple effective jig. Well worth a look if you have to make a few drawers or boxes etc.
It is used above the router table, not fixed like one of the big Leigh jigs and for a learner or anyone really easy peasy to use, you simply clamp your drawer timber to it, set a stop and route the tail or pin.
Very simple effective jig. Well worth a look if you have to make a few drawers or boxes etc.
Kev
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Acrobat said:
[member=4404]Acrobat[/member]
I've looked at these and have always thought they were a great idea, but felt they were massively overpriced ...
http://gifkins.com.au/product-category/jig-packages/
... they seem to be offing a small discount at the moment, but not enough to swing me! [smile]
Incra offers an approach to router table top dovetails too, but you achieve them by moving the precision fence in defined steps.
Anyway, back on Gifkens ... I always look at the full monty set offerings, the "solo set" is probably good value for someone that just wants to make drawers or the like.
http://gifkins.com.au/shop/standard-solo-package/
Acrobat
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Hi Kev
Yeah the "whole kits" seem steep. [eek] Whew, glad I got the solo kit years back when prices weren't as much as now. The solo kit is a great jig for a beginner I think though. No real setup hassles and not difficult to use. Even the most basic router under a flat sheet will do the job with this jig.
Only thought is if one goes the big sizes for making large trunk type boxes then that would be a pain as you have the large piece of timber held vertically in the air and you'd have to move the whole thing jig and all around the router bit. It's one of it's drawback's (apart from being a bit pricey) but most other jigs can get expensive too. If one is doing a ton of drawers then this maybe too slow but certainly fine for a few drawers when needed. And man, they fit tight! Some I haven't even put glue on and they've held for years now. [smile]
Yeah the "whole kits" seem steep. [eek] Whew, glad I got the solo kit years back when prices weren't as much as now. The solo kit is a great jig for a beginner I think though. No real setup hassles and not difficult to use. Even the most basic router under a flat sheet will do the job with this jig.
Only thought is if one goes the big sizes for making large trunk type boxes then that would be a pain as you have the large piece of timber held vertically in the air and you'd have to move the whole thing jig and all around the router bit. It's one of it's drawback's (apart from being a bit pricey) but most other jigs can get expensive too. If one is doing a ton of drawers then this maybe too slow but certainly fine for a few drawers when needed. And man, they fit tight! Some I haven't even put glue on and they've held for years now. [smile]
ear3
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Good for you to put in the time to do them by hand. One more word for the Leigh jig though -- it allows you to do variable spacing and sizing on the tails and pins, so you can make them look pretty elegant. Most other jigs only allow a fixed dovetail pattern.
Holmz
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Edward A Reno III said:
That wood rat also looks good, but I have not used one.
There is a video on the WR900 page.http://www.woodrat.com/woodrat.html
One could do the pins with a machine and the tails by hand.
wrightwoodwork
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Learn by hand. The only tip I will give is to make sure your boards are perfectly square before marking out. I prefer to do tales first , then use it as a template for the pins. Then when cutting out the waste wood leave the line on or just kiss the edge of the line ,you can always pair off a bit if too tight just can't add it back on . You don't need to start off with the thinnest pins. It's not as hard as people think it's a mind thing all it is is just following a few lines accurately and a bit of practice.
Craftsy has an on-line class that you might consider. It is not the same as a hands on approach but I did learn from some of their classes. At this time it is $25 but if you sign in, from time to time they will offer the same class for $14.99. I can not comment on the dovetail class since I did not take it.
