SketchUp! is better than hand drawing, really.

SketchUp wins again, great story Bill. I remember when you were just getting started on this project some time ago, it's nice to see the finished product turn out so well. This is why I keep pushing you guys with this program.
 
Rey Johnson said:
...and did you move your skylight to the other side of the building from what you have in SU, or do you have two skylights?

Rey,

Turns out I found a pretty good deal on a pair of 4' by 4' skylights so I indulged and got a pair. We live in the Pacific Northwest and I really, really like light. So there you go...

Bluenose, the diagram looks good, but the real thing looks great?  Do you have photos of the inside?

Frank,

Thanks so much. Before I was part of the community that built our 8 houses I had never picked up a hammer. Even back then I was on a pretty short leash tied to a real carpenter. This was my first real project on my own. I did get a set of plans but then instantly modified them since all the plans I found had trusses and collar ties for the rafters. I elected to hang the rafters off of a ridge beam to free up the overhead space. I didn't want anything blocking my precious skylights :). I sort of went the "Make it Stout and Get it Out" route.

Here are a couple of pictures of the inside. Please forgive the quality of the photos. My D40 built in flash is easily fooled in close spaces and mixed light. Still a work in progress but it is coming along.

Shed%20Shop%20-%202.jpg


Shed%20Shop%20-%203.jpg


Shed%20Shop%20-%204.jpg


Shed%20Shop%20-%205.jpg


Shed%20Shop%20-%206.jpg


The old beat up table is about to be replaced with a MFT2 basic. I hope to be able to have enough room between the two MFTs to have an insert for my miter saw and a couple of lockers for clamps etc.

Currently I am working on finishing up my french cleat installations and some tool cabinets (which I should have done in SU). Electrical is next. Although I run everything off of two 20 amp extension cords I plan to fully wire the inside. Including one dedicated plug that is fed off the C22 vacuum power so all my tools can switch on the vacuum. Well that is the plan anyway.

I am also planning a poor man's ceiling mounted panel saw to break down sheet goods (idea gleefully stolen from FWW).

Ceiling%20Panel%20Saw.jpg


In addition to the benefits of breaking down sheets of plywood I am also considering embedding 20 mm holes into the supports so I can sort of create my own version of Walko table. I am sort of picturing the vertical position combined with the panel saw idea.

packet.jpg


My thought is that I could use this to glue up panels using the my existing festool clamps or set up work bench shelves. Basically stealing as many ideas as I can from festool, FWW and Walko :).

SketchUp wins again, great story Bill. I remember when you were just getting started on this project some time ago, it's nice to see the finished product turn out so well. This is why I keep pushing you guys with this program.

Bryce,

Wow! I have major league hijacked your SU thread. Sorry. One thing I will say about Sketchup is that when you are first learning the program almost seems to want you to fail and give up. In many way it seems counter intuitive. But it handily rewards persistence and the learning curve isn't that steep. Also the file database system, 3D Warehouse, is excellent. In many case you can borrow something similar to what you are thinking of building and modify it to your needs. Then upload your version and the community grows. I certainly didn't model the skylights or the SimpsonTie fitting that are modeled into my shed. In addition, I borrow a sliding barn door and customized for my own use. Pretty cool.

One more thing. As more and more people get using SU more and more venders are creating models so you can drop them into your model.
 
Like others on this thread I tried using Sketchup for woodworking with only limited success and too much time spent on learning sketchup. 

Almost by accident I ran across a set of tutorials for beginning sketchup woodworkers at sketchupforwoodworkers.com and I am very pleased.  I have gone through the first three tutorials in the last two days and am already more proficient than I was after too many hours of self-instruction. 

The tutorials are free and, so far, worth a pretty penny.

 
I learned really fast with Gary Katz's tutorial...could do about 95% of everything I need after watching it...super simple for me to follow...might be another way of looking at it to get started with anyway.  You can go to his site and look at it...there are about four, but I used the one for a bookcase.

http://www.garymkatz.com/charts_drawings.html

Martin

 
Thanks for the reference to http://www.garymkatz.com/charts_drawings.html .  Both it and sketchupforwoodworkers.com are great for woodworkers beginning to use Sketchup.  Since the two approach things from slightly different perspectives, they are complimentary and not inconsistent.  Between them (along with several reviews in full) I am confident that I can produce reasonably good sketches of my next several projects.

 
There is an excellent book by a SU guru called Bonnie Roskes. Mine is for version 5 admitttedly but the UI has not changed radically since then.

Another thing I like about SU is that you can create components with it (aka library) and reuse them as often as you want. Change a component and it reflects immediately everywhere it's used in a drawing.

SU is excellent for showing collisions between objects. That is, does that 100mm thingy fit in a 90mm space? Will that 90mm thingy fit the 100mm space without leaving a gap? Seriously, it's helped me immensely. You can a do a lot using a little. True, it's not a full-on CAD program but it has closed the gap. You can also put your drawings into a 3D rendering program like Kerkythea for example. SU is far more powerful than you think it is.
 
Frank Pellow said:
It remains to be seen whether I will be thanking you or blaming you about a month from now.

It has been well past a month,.......... what's the verdict?
 
Brice Burrell said:
SketchUp! is better than hand drawing, really.

SketchUp, better than sliced bread or total enigma? That depends on whether you've been exposed to the program in a context that you can understand and apply to your needs. I believe it can be hard to understand both in its operation and in terms of practical applications. In this thread I'll explore some concepts and techniques to help use SketchUp for drawing complete project plans.

From here on out I will refer to SketchUp as "SU". Let's look at how and why to apply SU to develop project plans.

One very good reason to SU for your project drawing is you are, in essence, actually building your project, at least virtually. You can start off with conceptual models to work out some of your design ideas like scale or structure. These models don't have to be detailed or ever to perfect working scale. (This step can be skipped if you already have your design worked out.)

To get started lets take a look at this image of a kitchen cabinet (carcass only). This is a very simple drawing, it's the same kind of drawing someone might be able to draw by hand without to much trouble (assuming you have some experience hand drawing). How long would it take you to draw this cabinet by hand?
su1a.jpg


The SU model I used to export this picture from took about ten minutes to create. I started out in SU with a pretty good idea of what I was going to draw from my passed experience building and installing cabinets. Because of that I was able to draw a complete working model with almost no time spent drawing conceptually.

Okay, so let's say the guy hand drawing also spent ten minutes and he ended up with something like I have in the picture above. He now has a drawing showing the project with almost no construction details where as my SU model has almost every detail (the model, not this picture). At this point he has one drawing and I have a complete 3D model to show a client (or spouse). So ten minutes in SU is way ahead.

The next step for hand drawing is to make working plans or in SU's case more workable plans. This is where it becomes harder to hand draw and were SU pulls farther ahead. Hand drawing to scale takes time, in SU it's really no harder to make your model to scale. While the guy hand drawing is busy on his next drawing I'll add some visual references to my model.
su2a.jpg


This makes things much easier to grasp the scale with the measurements in place but I can do better. I'm going to focus turning my model into something more like building plans maybe something I could print out and take down to the shop.
su3a.jpg


I've placed a copy of the cabinet in the model to show both a front and side view, but I can do better.
su4a.jpg


Here I've taken the model apart to get an exploded view to better show the construction of the cabinet. I'm up to a half hour or so, how long would it take the guy hand drawing to produce the images I have here?

For all the great virtues of SU it won't make a cut list for you. That doesn't mean you can't make one.
su5a.jpg


While building my model I keep track of the measurements of each part (in a separate document) so I can add a cut list in SU as text. There's still a few construction details to cover before my plans are complete.
su6a.jpg


Now with the details for the dados I've got a complete set of working plans that I can print out to work in my shop or share with anyone. Notice I change the "style" in SU to make everything black and white to make it easy to print out.

Next, how to plan and construct your plans, making use of scenes in SU.

I've been using sketcup for quite some time and love it.  As to the cutlist issue look at this link.  http://lumberjocks.com/daltxguy/blog/5143

If cabinets is the main choice you should consider e-cabinets.  It's a package I used for a while till sketchup was bought by google and made free.  It's a free package that you have to register to get, but is was really based on designing cabinets and it integrated with cutlist.   

If you want great assistance over on finewoodworking knots forum there is a section dedicated to sketcup and any questions are answered quick by some very good folks and it's free. 

 
I don't know if any of you remember a post a made a while back (2008) in which I mentioned some sketchup files I made:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/slide-togetherapart-bookcase/

but, in it I included links to a number of sketchup files I created (after building the project).

Here are links to the SketchUp files:

AVI file (linked to above):          http://www.box.net/shared/lyvj297kkc
SketchUp used for Animation:  http://www.box.net/shared/7qb3kzwo40
Components with dimensions:  http://www.box.net/shared/tgu4gzisc4
Components (no dimensions):  http://www.box.net/shared/a5mepoewc4

It took me a couple of weeks to learn sketchup and produce those files back then.

Recently, I tried to use sketchup to explore some geometry in a telescope I am building. Specifically, I needed to determine the compound angles I would need to drill to connect telescope sections with numerous struts. Within an hour I abandoned sketchup and did some calculations using excel to get my answers.  My experience is that the learning curve for sketchup is not trivial, and the relearning curve for sketchup is not much better.

My relearning curve for hand drawing was minimal, and in no way counter-intuitive. Fortunately, I use excel on a more frequent basis, and thus was able to calculate my angles without much difficulty.

I have another project that I am planning that involves some very complicated geometry, and I looked as SketchUp as a route to facilitate that effort. However, it doesn't seem to be up to the task, so I will be using AutoCAD, or something like it to generate the results I am looking for. (I am sure that the learning curve for AutoCAD will be significantly greater than the two weeks required to get up and running with SketchUp. I am postponing that agony in the hopes that some simpler alternative presents itself to me.)

Charles
 
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