I currently own a Sawstop ICS31230-52. And it's got all the bells and whistles. I love it. It's performed perfectly. However, last week I had the chance to use a friend's slider. He has a nice Felder machine. So it's got me thinking of selling my saw, and buying a slider. I.I'm an engineer, and don't do woodworking to earn a living. So unfortunately, a Felder or Martin isn't in my budget. But the Grizzly and Shop Fox sliding saws are definitely within reach. I would appreciate any advice, anyone can give me. Would it be foolish to sell my Sawstop and buy one of the Grizzly or Shop Fox sliders? I realize of course that they won't have the exact same capabilites or rip capacity as the Felder i got to use. If anyone has any experience with the shop Fox or Grizzly sliders, or even the Hammer saws, I would greatly appreciate your input. I'm trying not to make a bad decision. And I have looked at adding a Sawstop sliding table to my saw. I just wasn't impressed with that setup. Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to offer me.
Sliding Table Saw Advice
- Thread starter Climber39
- Start date
I'd actually consider the SawStop option. I come from 25 years of using various industrial sliders (Altendorf, SCM etc) and anytime I've used one of the cheaper 'home' sliders I've been disappointed and frustrated. I checked out the SawStop at a local dealer, that had the slider attached and was pretty impressed with it. Appeared to be well made and robust.
Birdhunter
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That would be like going from a Mercedes to a Yugo.
WestMan_Canada
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Jess-em used to make a very high quality sliding table attachment that likely would have been perfect for your application on the Saw Stop TS.
It was called JessEm Mast-R-Slide 7500 - I dont think its made any more.
Here is a link to a reviewhttps://www.woodmagazine.com/review...accessories/jessem-mast-r-slide-sliding-table
It was called JessEm Mast-R-Slide 7500 - I dont think its made any more.
Here is a link to a reviewhttps://www.woodmagazine.com/review...accessories/jessem-mast-r-slide-sliding-table
vkumar said:
Not sure about North America.
The patent-pending Safety Innovation PCS® is available as an option with the Format4 kappa 550 sliding table panel saw.... Start of distribution: 2nd quarter 2020.https://www.felder-group.com/en-ca/pcs
Hobbyists may have to wait until the technology is implemented in the Hammer model.
I was an early purchaser of a SawStop ICS (2004, right after they came out), and a big fan of sliders. So, within a few years I’d added the Jessem slider. The first one I got was not flat but Rockler exchanged it without question (kudos) and I’ve been a very happy user since then. Every once in a while I think about swapping it out for the SS slider, but there’s always something else I want more 
If I were doing it over, I’d get the SS slider, out feed and router tables (I built my own outfeed and added a router table extension).
-Mario
If I were doing it over, I’d get the SS slider, out feed and router tables (I built my own outfeed and added a router table extension).
-Mario
Sliders that attach to a regular cabinet saw are just over-sized miter gauges. They lack some useful functions, such as being able to straight edge stock, do tapers, etc. because they are not right next to the blade. This may or may not be important for a particular user, but definitely something to keep in mind.
derekcohen
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Climber39 said:
I have a Hammer K3 slider. This one has a shorter wagon, at 49", but actually holds 53". Since I only work with hard wood, this is as big as I would want.
Prior to the K3, I had a tablesaw with a sliding table .... exactly the same set up as the Sawstop sliding table. Before making the K3 purchase, I was in fact going to get the Sawstop package. However, I did my research, and realised that they were two different animals.
One simple different, but so profound, is that the slider table on the SS runs about 12" from the blade, and the wagon on the K3 runs about 1/2". The SS set up is only for cross cuts. The K3 slider not only does cross cuts, but also rips.
What one needs to learn about European sliding saws is that the wagon is set up for ripping, as well as the other side of the saw, where there is a rip fence. Look up "Fritz and Frans jig" on YouTube.
So the SS is about safety? Well, so is the slider designed to be.
Do your own research. Would I go back and get the SS? Never!
Regards from Perth
Derek
One of the shops I work in has a large altendorf f45 with the huge slider, I think the carrige is around 12 ft long or more. Digital controls on both the rip fence and the crosscut fence. Truely amazing machine. But when I make case goods in that shop I am always thinking to myself how much faster I am at it in my own shop where I mainy use the track saw for my sheet goods. Just because of the way I have my workflow set up for specifically that task. I also think about it every time I have to take a sheet and set it up onto the saw. Granted it takes it from there, but there is something to creating a proper workflow and bringing the tool to the material.
I have a PM 66 that I attached a Jet sliding table. Jet used to sell these as an aftermarket accessory. It has an articulating arm and the table itself is about three feet wide, it was fairly narrow in depth so I added 8020 1040 to the front and back giving it an additional eight inches. I used this for years to breakdown multiple sheets of plastics simultaneously. I haven't used it for that since buying into Festool.
For what its worth I don't come from years of working with high-end sliding saws. I've had Jet cabinets saws for over a decade and rely mostly on Powermatic equipment and Festool at my shop and onsite. For an upcoming project I recently picked up a Grizzly G0623X used for $1500 with some nice blades and accessories. I'm pleasantly surprised by the quality. I don't do a lot of work with sheet goods, so the small footprint is ideal for me. I look at the slider as another tool similar to the TS 75. Its specific and convenient for certain tasks, and this saw can be acquired fairly cheaply. A lot of people get into the compact sliders and grow out of the quickly, so the saws seem to be available often on the secondary market. Of course it would be nice to have higher-end slider, but this is my first Grizzly, and I had concerns regarding the quality, but I'm impressed. That said, I didn't buy the saw to replace my standard cabinet saw.
MikeGE
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When I designed my basement shop, I wanted the Hammer K3. Unfortunately, the 120 day lead time was more than I wanted to wait, and the delivery, installation, and commissioning were my responsibility. I would be notified when the saw was ready, then I had to make my own arrangements to pick it up and transport it. While considering my options, since there are no cabinet saws available here, I found a local distributor for Altendorf, Martin, SCM, and Festool. He also refurbished and sold used Felder, Martin, Altendorf, and SCM equipment.
I saw a new SCM SC2 Classic on the showroom floor and asked the salesman how long it would take to deliver a saw like this. I was expecting a similar lead time as the Hammer while he checked on his computer. He then asked if next week was acceptable, since his installer was on vacation and wouldn't be back until Monday. The price included delivery, assembly, and commissioning, and the saw I would receive was the one on display. We shook hands and I transferred the money the same day.
I will not be outgrowing this saw, since I don't have room for a larger saw to replace it. I recently bought the Incra LS25 positioner to use on the sliding table in conjunction with the crosscut fence so I can rip up to 570mm wide boards on the sliding table. Anything wider than that and I will use only the crosscut fence. The Fritz and Franz jig is next on my list of accessories to make for the SC2.
I saw a new SCM SC2 Classic on the showroom floor and asked the salesman how long it would take to deliver a saw like this. I was expecting a similar lead time as the Hammer while he checked on his computer. He then asked if next week was acceptable, since his installer was on vacation and wouldn't be back until Monday. The price included delivery, assembly, and commissioning, and the saw I would receive was the one on display. We shook hands and I transferred the money the same day.
I will not be outgrowing this saw, since I don't have room for a larger saw to replace it. I recently bought the Incra LS25 positioner to use on the sliding table in conjunction with the crosscut fence so I can rip up to 570mm wide boards on the sliding table. Anything wider than that and I will use only the crosscut fence. The Fritz and Franz jig is next on my list of accessories to make for the SC2.
MaineShop said:
What you say makes sense. In some, many situations, going with the smaller machinery is faster. But with your Altendorf's, I bet they were used by stacking 4-6-8 sheets of plywood onto them at once and cutting all the sheets at once. And they used the Altendorf to cut 100 sheets in one day, or half day. So production was much faster with the Altendorf than the track saw. But a home craftsman or custom maker is not making 100 of the same thing every day or week. So the sliders may not be more productive.
A similar situation occurs in farming. Everyone likes to look at the huge tractors and planters. And for a contract farmer farming 5000 acres in huge mile square tracts, this machinery makes lots of sense. Then there is my Dad. Who has several farms spread over many miles. All small 40-80-100 acre tracts. With creeks running through them and odd shapes. You might be lucky to even get the huge tractors and planters turned around in such areas. So he needs different machinery than the huge farmers.
well in response to the comparison to the farmers and heavy equipment size. We only run one sheet at time through the attendorf in that shop actually most of the time. I mean I am sure we could do multiple but we are doing custom work and one off builds. it is not that often that we need multiples of many pieces. If we were doing a hundred sheets a day it would be with a large bed CNC not manually feeding through a saw.
Tom the Remodeler
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For what it's worth, I just took the plunge and ordered a Felder KF700S saw/shaper.
Among other specifications, the machine has a 3.2M (10') slider and runs on single phase power.
I spent a long time researching stationary saws, and like some of the above commenters I came to the conclusion that the SawStop with sliding table was definitely not for me. I've been processing a fair amount of 6/4 White Oak recently, and have grown weary of the limitations of handheld machinery in terms of straight-line ripping and processing of solid woods, and am finally ready to invest in a stationary saw. There is a cooperative shop nearby in Minneapolis where nearly every member has their own slider, everything from a pair of KF700 saws with 6' sliders, all the way up to an old Panhans with a 10' slider. There's a early (I think prototype) SawStop in the shop, apparently it's rarely used...
There's a lot to like about sliders, but the safety aspect is what really sold me. It's a different way of working compared to a traditional North American cabinet saw, but since I've been working with my Erika for the last several years I've been pretty well insulated from habits related to traditional cabinet saws. Opinions vary, but in theory just about any operation can be performed on a slider of sufficient length, in other words you may never really need the trip fence if you didn't want to use it that way.
It's just a different way of working and thinking.
I was originally looking at the Hammer machines (I also have a A3-41 and HS-950), but it really wasn't a huge jump to get into the Felder line, and they have multiple machine lines so it's pretty easy to get a machine that matches your budget. The Hammer K3 line looks nice, and if you get a shorter slider there are still ways to straight-line rip longer boards using a sled that indexes in the slider t-slot. Just remember that the Hammer and Felder accessories don't overlap, so if you think you'll really be using the machine a lot (even as a hobby) it's worth considering if you can stomach a smaller K500 or K700....
Something to consider is accessories. The Grizzly, Maksiwa, Laguna, and other machines are frequently going to come with a few more bells and whistles as compared with a comparably priced Hammer, but the Hammer will have a greater variety of accessories, which will allow you "grow" into your machine as your wants/needs change, whereas accessories for the other machines may need to be home-brewed. Either is fine, it just depends on what you're skilled at and how you enjoy spending your time.
Among other specifications, the machine has a 3.2M (10') slider and runs on single phase power.
I spent a long time researching stationary saws, and like some of the above commenters I came to the conclusion that the SawStop with sliding table was definitely not for me. I've been processing a fair amount of 6/4 White Oak recently, and have grown weary of the limitations of handheld machinery in terms of straight-line ripping and processing of solid woods, and am finally ready to invest in a stationary saw. There is a cooperative shop nearby in Minneapolis where nearly every member has their own slider, everything from a pair of KF700 saws with 6' sliders, all the way up to an old Panhans with a 10' slider. There's a early (I think prototype) SawStop in the shop, apparently it's rarely used...
There's a lot to like about sliders, but the safety aspect is what really sold me. It's a different way of working compared to a traditional North American cabinet saw, but since I've been working with my Erika for the last several years I've been pretty well insulated from habits related to traditional cabinet saws. Opinions vary, but in theory just about any operation can be performed on a slider of sufficient length, in other words you may never really need the trip fence if you didn't want to use it that way.
It's just a different way of working and thinking.
I was originally looking at the Hammer machines (I also have a A3-41 and HS-950), but it really wasn't a huge jump to get into the Felder line, and they have multiple machine lines so it's pretty easy to get a machine that matches your budget. The Hammer K3 line looks nice, and if you get a shorter slider there are still ways to straight-line rip longer boards using a sled that indexes in the slider t-slot. Just remember that the Hammer and Felder accessories don't overlap, so if you think you'll really be using the machine a lot (even as a hobby) it's worth considering if you can stomach a smaller K500 or K700....
Something to consider is accessories. The Grizzly, Maksiwa, Laguna, and other machines are frequently going to come with a few more bells and whistles as compared with a comparably priced Hammer, but the Hammer will have a greater variety of accessories, which will allow you "grow" into your machine as your wants/needs change, whereas accessories for the other machines may need to be home-brewed. Either is fine, it just depends on what you're skilled at and how you enjoy spending your time.
From a fellow hobbyist:
I've never owned a Sawstop, but I think they make a beautiful saw. I had one in my online cart a couple times, but somehow ended up with a Hammer B3. Here are some random thoughts:
I'm certain I'd be happy with a Sawstop too, but if I had the chance to do it over, I'd get the Hammer again.
I've never owned a Sawstop, but I think they make a beautiful saw. I had one in my online cart a couple times, but somehow ended up with a Hammer B3. Here are some random thoughts:
- It took almost 6 months to get the machine.
- There is an adjustment period, going from a traditional saw to a slider, but I haven't encountered any slider-specific limitations. I also never felt frustrated while adjusting.
- I find Fritz and Franz essential
- I do miss a zero-clearance insert at times, but the scoring blade works as advertised.
- Felder dado blades are shockingly expensive. They work great, and double as a shaper cutter, but they do leave "wings".
- I ended up giving away my old saw blades
- I rarely use the rip fence, and I've only actually ripped with it a couple times.
- It seems like it takes me a little longer to setup an operation, as compared to my old contractor saw, but the operation itself goes faster and "feels" much safer.
- You've already got a great saw, but I almost laughed the first time I ripped some thick hardwood with a 12" blade on a powerful saw.
- Note that on the Hammer (and maybe some lower-tier Felders?) you have to remove the scoring blade to use a 12" blade.
- Unlike the Sawstop, there aren't any cool router table wings for the Hammer.
- The Hammer eccentric clamp has some quirks, but I've finally come to terms with it. I also use some Kreg self-adjustable ones.
- My slider can accommodate 5'x5', but not 4'x8', so I use a tracksaw for the initial cut on full sheets (rather than the rip fence).
- I have both the crosscut fence and an outrigger, and I would have been disappointed had I not got the outrigger.
I'm certain I'd be happy with a Sawstop too, but if I had the chance to do it over, I'd get the Hammer again.
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