sliding table saw

[junk731]

Sliding table saws are an amazing tool for sheet goods or Solid timber.  Its efficient and accurate.  The real negative is the amount of space one needs to operate.  I have a Felder 700 slider with 9' table and scoring blade.  My saw allows for Dado blades as well.

Check out this video for the mother of all sliders, Martin T75!

Weird.  Using the slider in conjunction with the rip fence on through cuts as shown in the 2nd video looks like a recipe for disaster...especially if they do that with hardwood...I mean with the slider virtually the only safety issue is kickback...and you have to be pretty dumb to initiate kickback...like using the slider and rip fence at same time...I digress someone correct me if Im.wrong here....

Its only weird to those that don't understand the operation, mechanics and setup of the slider. The slider when properly setup has the rip fence set with a .002 to .003 allowance from the leading edge to the trailing edge of the blade. The effect is you are only using the rip fence as a bump stop. There are a lot of subtle differences between a cabinet saw and a slider that most don't become aware until they have and use one.

John

That isnt enough to account for movement of wood when tensions are released during a through cut.  MAYBE  sheet goods wouldnt move from tension being released as much...but never for hardwoods...even with sheet goods... if the piece you are cutting isnt already in a perfect square with regards to the.edges.meeting both rip fence and slider fence... the rip fence could end up pushing the wood against the side of blade with enough force to cause kickback......am I the only one here that thinks that?  Sheesh...wow...if that is true I'm amazed...

Why do you think Martin shows the method in their video, they are showing how to use these saws. These are not cabinet saws and there are cabinets shops all over the world that use this method on a daily basis for sheets goods. You do not use this method for ripping hardwood with its inherent instability. For hardwood ripping I oersonally work off the slider with 2 parallel guides and an air clamp or you can use the method Jalvis shows in his video.

John

 

[Len Coleman]

Ok. for those who don't need, can't afford, or simply don't have the space for a professional slider what is the best option that IS available in the US?

 

[stvrowe]

Ok. for those who don't need, can't afford, or simply don't have the space for a professional slider what is the best option that IS available in the US?

Len - My first suggestion would be to look at the Hammer lineup. 
Steve

 

[r cash]

Laguna tools has a moderate size silder  it weighs about 1000lbs.
The fence has a micrometer dial for fine adjustments the best feature

 

[Jalvis]

If you have enough room for a standard Cabinet Saw you have room for a Sliding Saw.  The size requirements get higher if you have a long slider but there are shorter versions available.

 

[b_m_hart]

The reason I asked, is that it seemed like there was little point (perhaps other than safety benefits) in having a slider that was any bigger than doing cross cut type work if you didn't have the room for it.  Why get one that isn't capable of handling full sized sheets?

 

[Jalvis]

The reason I asked, is that it seemed like there was little point (perhaps other than safety benefits) in having a slider that was any bigger than doing cross cut type work if you didn't have the room for it.  Why get one that isn't capable of handling full sized sheets?

Theres thousands upon thousands of uses for a 3-4 foot slider.  It really comes down to the size of your projects and type of work you do.  Think of it like having a 3-4 foot miter saw with a 12" blade and dado blade option.  Lots of function in a small footprint plus it functions just like a regular cabinet saw.

If you got a saw that has a 4 foot cutting capacity with the slider you can still break down sheet goods just not on the 8 foot length.  If you have a choice for a small slider or a cabinet saw then why not pick the slider and get the added function?

Oh….dont forget that the slider has a scoring blade option.  Something you won't see on a cabinet saw.

 

[Laminator]

Darkstar is correct on sliding the fence to where it ends before the blade.  My friends cabinet shop had several dents and a few places where the metal siding was torn form pieces thrown from an Altondorf 45.  He said it usually only took one piece hurled against the wall for the operator to remember the fence trick.  Luckily no one was ever injured other than pride and temporarily elevated heart rate.

The Altondorf was/is very accurate but now they do the bulk of their cutting on a nesting router.

 

[junk731]

Fortunately personal experience and the experience of many other operators of sliding table saws dictates that its the monkey running the saw not the position of the fence end in relationship to the end of the blade that creates these problems. The fence being past the end of the actually aids in keeping long cuts aligned better preventing the back edge angling back into the blade. Part of the learning curve when using a slider is understanding that not everything works the same as on a cabinet saw.

John

 

[tjbnwi]

Ok. for those who don't need, can't afford, or simply don't have the space for a professional slider what is the best option that IS available in the US?

These sheets were processed without the use of a slider or cabinet saw. The cut process per sheet, from unload to final cut is just under 3 minutes per sheet. Total cuts per sheet is, 21 consisting of -straight line one edge, 2 long rips, 18 cross cuts pre sheet. Over a 10 sheet test I beat a cabinet saw in a friends cabinet shop by 9 minutes per sheet. So far we have processed 165 sheets, 2 piece had to be resized into shelfs due to out of square.

My MFT I set up for the cross cuts is 0.000" out of square in 22", can't get it any better than that. On the mahogany veneer ply there has been no tear out or chipping of the veneer. Clean sharp blades are a must.

Getting things done is as much about the process and work flow as it is the tools you use. The best option is up to you. How you set up to accomplish the job will have a very large impact on how the job goes.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/38-mans-hours/

Tom

 

[tiralie]

The cut process per sheet, from unload to final cut is just under 3 minutes per sheet. I beat a cabinet saw in a friends cabinet shop by 9 minutes per sheet.

Tom:
Do you mean "just under 30 minutes per sheet"?
If you made 21 cuts in 3 minutes that means on average each cut took 8.5 sec.
That is fast!
Tim

 

[greg mann]

Fortunately personal experience and the experience of many other operators of sliding table saws dictates that its the monkey running the saw not the position of the fence end in relationship to the end of the blade that creates these problems. The fence being past the end of the actually aids in keeping long cuts aligned better preventing the back edge angling back into the blade. Part of the learning curve when using a slider is understanding that not everything works the same as on a cabinet saw.

John

I am not sure I can agree with this premise. If I understand correctly, you are stating that the fence past the blade continues to act as a surface against which you can still apply some amount of pressure while making the cut. That would seem true for a cabinet saw, at least until you approached the end of the cut, at which time continued pressure would force the offside material into the back of the blade. On a slider, with the material propery secured, the fence only acts as the initial alignment mechanism and the cut will rely not at all for accuracy after the movement into the blade is started.

 

[tjbnwi]

Three minutes. I'm going yo do videos on the entire process once this project is over. One unit, start to finish.

At 30 minutes a sheet, I would never get done. Cut 16 sheets in an 8 hour day??? I'd take the TS-55 and slit my wrists.

Each unit complete takes less than 40 minutes. Trying (I know, to try is to fail) to get it under 35. So far I have not found steps in the process to shave the seconds off of.

Justin has the install, once I get the units prepped onsite below 17 minutes a room. Unit installed, adjusted for proper fit, valance cut and fitted, handle installed. Prep, with assembly, installing the legs, cutting the notices takes about 15 minutes.

Tom

 

[panelchat]

Tom, looking forward to the video.

The discussion and economics of free standing machine vs. track saw for panel breakdown is very interesting. I took on cabinet making jobs last year with only a track saw and found it to be a reasonably fast and effective way to work, given you have some basic systems in place for workflow, accuracy, and repeat cuts. Would love to see the details of how it has been working out for you.

 

[junk731]

Fortunately personal experience and the experience of many other operators of sliding table saws dictates that its the monkey running the saw not the position of the fence end in relationship to the end of the blade that creates these problems. The fence being past the end of the actually aids in keeping long cuts aligned better preventing the back edge angling back into the blade. Part of the learning curve when using a slider is understanding that not everything works the same as on a cabinet saw.

John

I am not sure I can agree with this premise. If I understand correctly, you are stating that the fence past the blade continues to act as a surface against which you can still apply some amount of pressure while making the cut. That would seem true for a cabinet saw, at least until you approached the end of the cut, at which time continued pressure would force the offside material into the back of the blade. On a slider, with the material propery secured, the fence only acts as the initial alignment mechanism and the cut will rely not at all for accuracy after the movement into the blade is started.

Greg while the fence acts as initial contact, in my case about 12" from first contact with the blade, there is no contact with fence at the blade or past the blade but what happens with certain cuts and materials is a rotation of the trailing edge into the blade as the cut is completed. The fence past the blade helps with preventing this rotation. Do you work with slider or have you cut any sheet goods on a slider just to add the proper dimension to the discussion.

John

 

[greg mann]

Fortunately personal experience and the experience of many other operators of sliding table saws dictates that its the monkey running the saw not the position of the fence end in relationship to the end of the blade that creates these problems. The fence being past the end of the actually aids in keeping long cuts aligned better preventing the back edge angling back into the blade. Part of the learning curve when using a slider is understanding that not everything works the same as on a cabinet saw.

John

I am not sure I can agree with this premise. If I understand correctly, you are stating that the fence past the blade continues to act as a surface against which you can still apply some amount of pressure while making the cut. That would seem true for a cabinet saw, at least until you approached the end of the cut, at which time continued pressure would force the offside material into the back of the blade. On a slider, with the material propery secured, the fence only acts as the initial alignment mechanism and the cut will rely not at all for accuracy after the movement into the blade is started.

Greg while the fence acts as initial contact, in my case about 12" from first contact with the blade, there is no contact with fence at the blade or past the blade but what happens with certain cuts and materials is a rotation of the trailing edge into the blade as the cut is completed. The fence past the blade helps with preventing this rotation. Do you work with slider or have you cut any sheet goods on a slider just to add the proper dimension to the discussion.

John

My 'slider' is a CS70, so it is a bit small for the sake of this discussion but I do think the dynamics are the same. If the material is secured to the slider how does it rotate? But, given that it is rotating, are we talking about the trailing edge on the fence side or the slider side?

 

[junk731]

Greg I'm talking about the trailing edge on the fence side not the slider. The slider side is never much of a concern if your slider is setup properly.

John

 

[Laminator]

The shop I spoke of leaves the fence much the same as a cabinet saw for ripping.  The only time they slide it back is to cross cut.    Take a rip 12" x 96" that you turn 90 degrees to crosscut 32" pieces.  If the fence is left in normal position, it allows that piece (32"x12") to become trapped between it and the blade and you (they) have an event that sound like a shotgun blast as that piece  disappears from the saw in dramatic fashion. I happened to be in their office one day to hear it and we all rushed out to see pale figure rising from the floor behind the saw.  Lucky there was no red on him and this was his second time to "forget" to slide the fence back before crosscutting.

 

[junk731]

I guess you have to learn from your mistakes over and over again. How times does the monkey get to make the same mistake before somebody gets hurt. In a lot of cases when working with sliders or any saw for that matter you have to pick a setup that works best/safest for the given task. I have a small jig with a small stop with a powerful magnet for situation like you just described. The first cut is made using it as a bump stop, then the subsequent cuts are made strictly from the slider side.

John

 

[jacko9]

I purchased a Powermatic 66 with the Excalibur sliding table many years ago and while it's not in the same class  as the Felder and Hammer and other available today, it was a cheap add on at the time I bought the saw.

They still sell a version at;

http://woodworker.com/auxiliary-sliding-table-62-capacity-mssu-914-351.asp

Jack