So I have $5000 to outfit the studio with Festools

[tbellemare]

I think you nailed a few things, Ken.

One of the advantages of a thinner kerf is it allows smaller engines to dig the trough, so to speak...

The biggest disadvantage I see is that the blade can, potentially, be less stiff, but that assumes that the plate is similarly reduced. I don't know if that's the case here. I'll have to check. Even if it is, there are ways to account for thickness.

If you look at how the Panther was not just reduced but the whole blade engineering changed, I think it bodes well.

I know that there are always advances in technology - materials, analytical/engineering, and manufacturing. So to think that a blade with several year old technology is "cutting edge" (yes that's a pun), seems specious. I, for one, am glad that Festool embraces the latest.

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

I think you nailed a few things, Ken.

One of the advantages of a thinner kerf is it allows smaller engines to dig the trough, so to speak...

The biggest disadvantage I see is that the blade can, potentially, be less stiff, but that assumes that the plate is similarly reduced. I don't know if that's the case here. I'll have to check. Even if it is, there are ways to account for thickness.

If you look at how the Panther was not just reduced but the whole blade engineering changed, I think it bodes well.

I know that there are always advances in technology - materials, analytical/engineering, and manufacturing. So to think that a blade with several year old technology is "cutting edge" (yes that's a pun), seems specious. I, for one, am glad that Festool embraces the latest.

Tom

Agree Tom, well said.

Technology does march on, and in Festool's case, the improvements tend to be for the better.

Bob

 

[tiralie]

Agree Tom, well said.
Technology does march on, and in Festool's case, the improvements tend to be for the better.
Bob

Festool is the epitome of Peter Drucker's maxim that one of the two functions of a business (first is discovering what customers want and need) is to create value through innovation or the creation of new products and services creating a new potential (customer) satisfaction.
They don't get everything right just mostly right.
The minute they stop innovating will be when I stop seeing the value and I will stop buying their products.
Tim

 

[tbellemare]

I like to break things into 3's, it helps to understand them easier...

I've long thought that companies generally fall into one of the following 3 categories:

• Inventor/Innovator
• Market Driven - basically already have a customer base and are giving them what they want from the Inventor/Innovators (copy or steal)
• Marketing Driven - opportunists that see a market potential based on both of the above and move to take a piece of the action

I see Festool as an Inventor/Innovator.

Tom

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I like to break things into 3's, it helps to understand them easier...

I've long thought that companies generally fall into one of the following 3 categories:

• Inventor/Innovator
• Market Driven - basically already have a customer base and are giving them what they want from the Inventor/Innovators (copy or steal)
• Marketing Driven - opportunists that see a market potential based on both of the above and move to take a piece of the action

I see Festool as an Inventor/Innovator.

Tom

Interesting threesome, Tom.  I have worked with/for a number of innovators.  They all shared a thread that I find in Festool as well.  Its tempting to get so caught up in the innovation that they neglect reasonable marketing and few truly understand how great the products really are.  I think Shane's work, the training, and the FOG are a great step in the right direction, but I am still surprised to learn 'oh - that's what that thing does - why didn't anybody say so?'  I mean this as constructive criticism.  I've seen too much great technology wither on the vine due to lack of effective communication, not a fate I would wish on Festool.  Thanks Tom and Bob for all you do to clue us in.

 

[tbellemare]

I've worked for a couple of Inventor/Innovators myself, Jesse. Both of them made so much money they got into Marketing Driven schemes. One of them even fooled themselves into thinking they had a Market Driven opportunity but I think they failed to analyze it properly because of hubris. All of those schemes that I can recall failed or flailed. The DNA of the company was wrong or something.

I hear what you're saying about some of them not knowing what they have or how to convey it to others.

Lately, though, with the investment community what it is, there's no real reason any good idea should die on the vine. Ideas that are really good should be able to find investment and generally, those investors will make sure the marketing gets done, usually installing their own people to run things so their money is protected.

BTW: I'm happy to contribute in any way I can. This is a great place to learn and I've learned a lot.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Here's a little more info on the Festool blades that we were discussing yesterday.  I'll give a quick recap so you don't have to go back through this thread.  I have a couple of the TS55 blades that give a 2.5mm kerf.  I have a lot of guide rails ranging from the FS800 through the FS3000, all cut with the standard 2.2mm blade kerf.  I don't want to have to deal with special guide rails just for the 2.5mm blades.  I called the guys that do my sharpening, Forrest Blade Co. and Jim Forrest told me he was pretty sure it was no problem to side grind the blades as long as there was enough carbide between the tips and plate.  He said he doesn't balance other's blades before grinding so if there are balance issues with my Festool blades, those wouldn't be corrected.  He figures $11 per blade, well worth it for $47 blades.

 

[Bob Marino]

Festool is rather unique in a number of ways - product innovation and development, marketing and pricing, etc.
Festool Germany - the Mother Ship guiding this fleet, sees/approaches the market way differently than most companies do, essentially having quality, rather than price,  the goal. Yes, they do thorough market research, product development - all the good things, but at the end of the day, for the most part, the tools  are  just plain better (at least in some way/ways) than the competition.

Maybe some of it has to do with being a family owned company and they certainly look long term, which is a refreshing (and ultimately more profitable) way of doing business. I think Festool USA's "marketing approach" has dramatically changed and improved in the last few years - as Jesse mentioned - the FOG, training classes, even TV presence ; let alone going back to the early days when most of the first dealers were actually contractors.

Here's a bit of Festool trivia. David and Michael McGibbon  (yes our David McGiibbon - Festool USA's tool guru) were "commissioned" by Festool Germany in 1996 to see who in the USA would buy/what Festool tools they would  buy. They were the original Festool market researchers. One year later they were importing and selling the tools.  And since they were selling mostly online to customers who never heard of Festool  and were essentially buying sight/touch unseen, they offered customers something Festool Germany never did, and has continued to this day  - the 30 day money back guarantee. Whodu thought that these pricey German tools first brought here by the McGibbons - 1997 would become so steadily and increasingly popular and critically acclaimed? I think Festool Germany did.

  As long as Festool maintains their model (quality over price points), they are on their way to becoming a major tool manufacturer here in the USA.

As for me; whatever star alignment (or misalignment )got me here 9 years ago, I'm glad to be associated with the company, sell the tools, be a part of the dealer network and FOG and say sincerely "thanks for the kind words".

Bob

 

[peter halle]

Festool is rather unique in a number of ways - product innovation and development, marketing and pricing, etc.
Festool Germany - the Mother Ship guiding this fleet, sees/approaches the market way differently than most companies do, essentially having quality, rather than price,  the goal. Yes, they do thorough market research, product development - all the good things, but at the end of the day, for the most part, the tools  are  just plain better (at least in some way/ways) than the competition.

Maybe some of it has to do with being a family owned company and they certainly look long term, which is a refreshing (and ultimately more profitable) way of doing business. I think Festool USA's "marketing approach" has dramatically changed and improved in the last few years - as Jesse mentioned - the FOG, training classes, even TV presence ; let alone going back to the early days when most of the first dealers were actually contractors.

Here's a bit of Festool trivia. David and Michael McGibbon  (yes our David McGiibbon - Festool USA's tool guru) were "commissioned" by Festool Germany in 1996 to see who in the USA would buy/what Festool tools they would  buy. They were the original Festool market researchers. One year later they were importing and selling the tools.  And since they were selling mostly online to customers who never heard of Festool  and were essentially buying sight/touch unseen, they offered customers something Festool Germany never did, and has continued to this day  - the 30 day money back guarantee. Whodu thought that these pricey German tools first brought here by the McGibbons - 1997 would become so steadily and increasingly popular and critically acclaimed? I think Festool Germany did.

  As long as Festool maintains their model (quality over price points), they are on their way to becoming a major tool manufacturer here in the USA.

As for me; whatever star alignment (or misalignment )got me here 9 years ago, I'm glad to be associated with the company, sell the tools, be a part of the dealer network and FOG and say sincerely "thanks for the kind words".

Bob

I am speechless.  There is a lot of stuff we don't know

 

[Bob Marino]

[/quote]

I am speechless.  There is a lot of stuff we don't know
[/quote]

Hey Pete,

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, in 2001 Michael was "bought out", David stayed, enter Christian O and "Festool USA" was born.

Bob

 

[peter halle]

I am speechless.  There is a lot of stuff we don't know
[/quote]

Hey Pete,

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, in 2001 Michael was "bought out", David stayed, enter Christian O and "Festool USA" was born.

Stay tuned for more...

Bob
[/quote]

 

[Bob Marino]

Stay tuned for more...

Bob

Ok, all I have tonight - only since you asked, Peter .
Time-line 1996. David was an electrician and Michael  (working in France) a cabinet builder. Kept asking Festool Germany why can't they get Festool tools in USA. That's what sparked the offer from Festool G to send them some tools and start the ball rolling - the beginnings of Festool marketing in the USA.

Bob

 

[Mavrik]

Well ... I'm delighted we get Festool in South Africa ...  [smile]