Some Sander advice please

[Tekton Kid]

Hey people, ive found this forum to be of immense value as a resource for ideas and information about both Festool kit and carpentry in general.  My only problem is that when I search for a topic on sajo y sanders I get pages and pages of info which isnt always specific to my need.

I would like to know which sander to buy I.e Rotex 150 and if it is an all rounder or a finish sander only. I know there are plenty of reviews and youtube vids and thats great but im still green and would like to hear it from you guys here. My aims are to purchase a sander that gives me some potential for removing quite a bit of material with ease but that also isnt so aggressive that I end up needing two tools for one task.

I bought the TS55 REQB with the module insert and cms base unit, the OF2200 with accessories , the Quadrive PDC drill, the CTL 26 and the MFT with the fence and all the trimmings and also purchased an additional 1400 mm track all in one go and I have not regretted it one bit. Ive now bought the EH850 planer with additional cutters and so the sander may aswell be of the same kind of standard in terms of size. I have never owned a router before so I have nothing in the way of comparison but Im not put off by the weight  of the router, if anything its reassuring and when I get the module insert for the CMS will probably leave it mounted and buy the 1400 simply for convenience.

The sander however will definitely be a portable device but similarly I would like the option to mount it just like the 850 planer mount accessory . Would appreciate any advice please  [crying]

 

[AlexThePalex]

There are many different threads about which sander to get because many people have the same questions as you do. There are very much different tasks you can do with a sander, and that's why Festool developed a wide range of sanders.

We would be able to give you the best advice when we know what kind of work you want to do exactly.   

The Rotex sanders are on one hand quite agressive, and, because of the dual action, more gentle on the other hand. These are the best all-round sanders you can find if you want to cover a lot of different jobs with a single sander. You can remove a lot of material in its aggressive mode, and get a very nice finish in the fine mode. They do have a learning curve though. 

It is possible to mount a Rotex 150 in a jig. It has two screw holes on the side to attach a handle. I made a simple jig out of MDF to hold it and use it as a bench sander. Don't have any pics though, I left it on a job somewhere and when I came back to pick it up they had thrown it away because they thought it was just scraps. Didn't use it that much so I never made a new one. 
 

 

[jacko9]

There are many different threads about which sander to get because many people have the same questions as you do. There are very much different tasks you can do with a sander, and that's why Festool developed a wide range of sanders.

We would be able to give you the best advice when we know what kind of work you want to do exactly.   

The Rotex sanders are on one hand quite agressive, and, because of the dual action, more gentle on the other hand. These are the best all-round sanders you can find if you want to cover a lot of different jobs with a single sander. You can remove a lot of material in its aggressive mode, and get a very nice finish in the fine mode. They do have a learning curve though. 

It is possible to mount a Rotex 150 in a jig. It has two screw holes on the side to attach a handle. I made a simple jig out of MDF to hold it and use it as a bench sander. Don't have any pics though, I left it on a job somewhere and when I came back to pick it up they had thrown it away because they thought it was just scraps. Didn't use it that much so I never made a new one. 

At least your Rotex wasn't attached when they tossed your jig [eek] 

I think that the Rotex line gives a lot of versatility but the RO 150 is heavy so you should get to one of the Festool dealers and try them out.  Knowing the kind of work you do will help people give recommendations.

Jack

Jack

 

[Rob]

If you're coming from a random orbit sander that cost less than $80, you probably can't go wrong with any ETS or Rotex of the same or larger size as your old sander.

I thought my Bosch 5" (VSK-ROS20?) was supposed to be about as good as it gets after reading the magazine reviews, but the backing pad is cupped to help with dust extraction, so it really only seems to use the outer 3/4" or so of the abrasive disc.  It vibrates quite a bit (but less than others I've used) and it doesn't seem to operate any more efficiently with a vacuum attached than without.  Also it doesn't take much pressure to stop the Bosch sander from spinning (I know, let the sander do the work...but it's hard to resist when the work is going so slowly).

After buying a reconditioned ETS 150/3, I finally understand what all the Festool fanatics are preaching about.  It isn't even supposed to be an aggressive sander but I was cleaning up some nasty dirty boards, and the 150/3 with 80 grit paper and hooked up to a small Shop-Vac took less than half the time I would have expected from my Bosch sander with 40 grit paper.  The 150/3 also made quick work of feathering the old paint on my house trim and an exterior door.

I can't say that I'll ever enjoy sanding, but at least now I won't dread it quite so much.

 

[roblg3]

The Rotex dual mode sander can be a concrete grinder, wood leveler, finish sander and a car polisher as well.  I'd say it's about as versatile of a sander ever created.  The RO90 is slightly more versatile but really only for smaller projects.  I have the ro 90 and an ets 150.  I can't imagine theres anything I can't tackle with the combo.  20+ years of contracting and now i build furniture and cabinetry.

 

[AlexThePalex]

The Rotex dual mode sander can be a concrete grinder,

Nah, not really. That stuff's way too hard.

 

[roblg3]

The hardness of the material is a limitation of the paper only.  The Rotex has the power to do that job.  Have you ever tried?  It's a gear driven machine in Rotex mode.  Good luck putting enough pressure on the sander to stop the rotation.  I'm not saying it's a jackhammer, but you can smooth rough concrete

 

[AlexThePalex]

The hardness of the material is a limitation of the paper only.  The Rotex has the power to do that job.  Have you ever tried?  It's a gear driven machine in Rotex mode.  Good luck putting enough pressure on the sander to stop the rotation.  I'm not saying it's a jackhammer, but you can smooth rough concrete

This discussion has come up before. I had to draw the conclusion American concrete is made out of cheese cake, while European concrete is made out of, well, concrete. Since the OP is from Europe, in this case my claim applies. 

Of course I tried. I tried many, many things with my RO150 sander, even ice skating, standing on my head with one arm - which is a doddle compared to sanding concrete.

One of the things I tried it on is this concrete garden shed pictured below. I tried to smooth it out, but I couldn't even get a dent in it, it was so hard I could merely scratch the surface with Saphir 50 in aggressive mode. The lighter spots are where the surface is a bit scratched by the sander.

[attachthumb=1]

[attachthumb=2]

If you want to smooth out concrete, over here you need something like the Diamond grinding system DSG-125. No way does the Rotex with its 750 Watt, 600 RPM and sandpaper compare to a 1400 W, 11000 RPM machine with a diamond grinding disc.

PS - There are some exaggerations in this post, all meant in good humour of course.

 

[Scott B.]

Last spring, we ran Rotex v. RAS on concrete.

Rotex will do it...

[attachimg=1]

Just not nearly as fast as the RAS...

 

[AlexThePalex]

Scott, of course the Rotex can do that just fine. I don't call that smoothing out concrete. You're only sanding the layer of paint that's on it.

 

[Scott B.]

Scott, of course the Rotex can do that just fine. I don't call that smoothing out concrete. You're only sanding the layer of paint that's on it.

Semantics, Alex.

You can't sand at 40g (with a Rotex or a RAS) without smoothing out concrete.

If you could explain to me how we completely mechanically stripped the failed coating to raw concrete without smoothing out the concrete, I would much appreciate it.

 

[roblg3]

Once again, the limiting factor as you described is the paper not the grinder.  In geared rotex mode, it is by definition a grinder.  Attach a diamond pad to the rotex and you will grind concrete.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Scott, of course the Rotex can do that just fine. I don't call that smoothing out concrete. You're only sanding the layer of paint that's on it.

Semantics, Alex.

You can't sand at 40g (with a Rotex or a RAS) without smoothing out concrete.

If you could explain to me how we completely mechanically stripped the failed coating to raw concrete without smoothing out the concrete, I would much appreciate it.

Seriously? You're talking about semantics and then you start hair splitting about the definition of a word?

Analogy: if you "climb" over a 3 foot wall you're technically climbing. That's how the word is defined. Other people might say you're not really climbing until you've scaled the mount Everest. Get the difference?

Of course you're "smoothing out" the concrete. For a whole 1/128th of an inch perhaps. But you're right, that's what the word means, so that's what you're doing, right. Nobody can tell the difference in smoothness before or after, but there's probably some concrete dust in there somewhere, so you've got proof.

Point conceded.

It is of course totally the same as what I showed in the pictures of my previous post. It is of course totally the same as the jobs you would tackle with a DSG-125.

Once again, the limiting factor as you described is the paper not the grinder.  In geared rotex mode, it is by definition a grinder.  Attach a diamond pad to the rotex and you will grind concrete.

Ah yes, correct, just like Scott. The fact that it would take ages is of course not of any importance at all. You know, I could attach a diamond pad to my DTS400 too. Makes it instantly a sander suited for smoothing out concrete. Heck, I can even attach a diamond pad to my toothbrush, and with some medieval patience I can get there in a few years time. I've heard of an inmate sawing through his bars with tooth floss. Should the metal industry just use floss instead?

PS - This time there was some sarcasm in my post, and my apologies, but I meant it. I'm sorry, the Rotex is a great tool, but it's just not something you use to tackle concrete, and I feel you two are using absurd arguments to proof otherwise.

 

[Scott B.]

Alex

It would be helpful if you posted photos (and maybe video) of your own work more often.

Your posts come with much knowledge and authority, and it is always interesting to see the experience from which you draw.

Be careful about making assumptions. The concrete floor we stripped was improperly done (no prep) by the original finisher some 14 years ago. I think you would be surprised at the raw substrate we dealt with under that finish.

Our grit steps were 24 (on the strip), 40 and 60. Any higher than 60 and you are polishing concrete. So, yes, I believe that in a mechanical strip, there is some smoothing going on.

Everyone's mileage will vary. There is no need to call anyone's opinions absurd here. Disagreeing is fine.

 

[epicxt]

I think the bottom line is if you're trying to take down large rough spots (like areas where concrete has oozed out between forming panels) of fully cured concrete the rotex is not the ideal tool. I tried this with the ro125 with Saphir 24 years ago and had no luck. Probably could be done but not in a timely manner. YMMV

 

[downtheroad]

The Rotex and my experience with granite chip repair.

2 weeks ago, we were asked to repair a chipped corner on a granite executive desk in a brand new custom home. The delivery service doing the complete install of all the furnishings, texted us a picture of the damage and asked us to go out to the client's home and meet with the interior designer to discuss the issue.

[attachimg=1]

As we are really a wood repair and finishing shop, we were expecting to tell the designer a stone guy would probably serve them better. The designer happened to be someone we've worked for in the past and she was very familiar with our work. So, we decided to give it a shot.

Armed with the RO 125, some 2-part stone adhesive/filler, and 5" diamond pads, we were ready to see what we could do.

We glued in the 2 largest chips that were saved, but were still missing about 40%. We filled those areas with a paste made from more adhesive/filler, but mixed with the remaining stone pieces that we crushed to be fine enough.

[attachimg=2]

We waited for the fill to cure hard enough to level and we sanded as much excess by hand then used the diamond pads (200, 400, 800, 1500, 3000 grits) on the Rotex (in rotex mode) using water to keep the surface just wet enough. When we could no longer detect the repair with our fingers using the 200 grit, we continued on up the grits to finish polishing. The sheen was very good, but was just a bit more porous looking. Was there a sealer on the desk? We don't know, but we ended up using some Liberon wax that we had and put 3 coats on and gave each a good buff by hand. This completed the job.

[attachimg=3]

Using the slower speed of the Rotex kept the mess very manageable (we were in the client's home). Although, it was slower to polish at that speed, it was definitely neater. The Rotex has proven to be extremely versatile and a winner in our work. Thank you Festool and Bob Marino.

 

[tiralie]

The Rotex and my experience with granite chip repair.

Tony:
Nice repair, looks great, nice write up, thanks for posting.
Tim

 

[downtheroad]

Nice repair, looks great, nice write up, thanks for posting.
Tim

Tim, thanks for the nice comments

 

[roblg3]

Hopefully the OP has stayed tuned through these many opinions.  Tekton kid, you can see many people are using the rotex for alot of different jobs from wood sanding, concrete work, granite polishing, I have used mine to Smoot out some gouges in my Stabila aluminum level and polished it to a mirror finish for fun.  If you ask Brian Sedgely, a Festool trainer, he can tell you how a 300+ pound man was spun off the top of a RO 150 when it was powered up with him standing on top of it.  Versatility?.....you bet!

 

[Rob Z]

Downtheroad:

Very nice work on that repair. I've worked with a lot of stone installers and have seen a lot of repair work done. When it's well-done like this, it is really a credit to the skills of the trademan.