Soon to be Festool Owner setup question for CT36 AC and my CNC

[TechGuy]

I recently got a Shapeoko XXL Pro CNC machine and I have looked at many options for dust extraction and have settled on the Festool CT36 AC. I want to connect the Festool CT36 to a Clearvue Systems CV06 dust separator.

My understanding is I need to use Anti static hoses. But is there a way to connect straight PVC pipe between the CT36 and the CV06 and ground it so it is antistatic ?  Or do I need to purchase a 36mm Anti static hose to go to the CV06 Dust Separator ? Like this one ?https://www.festoolusa.com/accessory/204923---d3632x3,5m-asr#Overview

My only concern is the total length of hose from the CT36 to CV06 and then from the CV06 into my enclosure for my Shapeoko CNC to the dust shoe and losing suction power.

The port on the CT-06 is 2.25" where can I find an adapter to go from 36mm to 2.5" ?

 

[afish]

First congratulations on your new CNC.

Well, I hate to be the one to tell you but I think you are about to be disappointed in the CT for your purpose. I would recommend a small dust collector with a 4" hose.  On the higher end the HF unit will do a very good job for your size cnc or a smaller dust right type unit you can skip the cyclone for now and add it later if needed concentrate on getting the collector and good filter first.  If budget is an issue check the used listings and just buy the filter new. On the low end I would get the largest most powerful shop vac possible. Hard pipe it as far as you can and use as little flex as possible.  CNC's make a ton of dust and that CT is not going to keep up. (I own the CT36ac too) and would never use it on a even a small cnc.  Plus the bag cost issue.  I use a large 3hp laguna cyclone with 6" being the smallest diameter in the system, It doesnt take much for me to fill a 55 gallon drum full of dust.  Also check out THIS GUY for the best dust shoe.  Not sure if he makes one for your model but he will design one if not.  You will be tempted to make your own as your first project but it wont be nearly as good as his. Good and proper DC is the most important part without good DC you will not be happy. Here is a pic of my shoe he made me. I can plane a 4x8 sheet of MDF with a 3+ inch bit with virtually no dust. not sure if you have ever seen a 3 inch surfacing bit hit MDF with no or poor dust collection but its a sight to be seen.  1 pass of about 4' is enough to fill a 2 car garage with a plum of dust.

 

[mino]

@ afish
Need to check the Shapeoko CNC size. It is a small CNC and a CT is absolutely fine for it. Even the CT15 will likely do when not having a cyclone in the path.
The rigidity of its frame does not actually allow any big dust collecting head as you have as it would affect the accuracy of the spindle significantly. Not that it is needed, you cannot put a huge bit like you shown in a spindle which the Shapeoko frame could handle.
The frame is adequate to hold the supplied/default spindle plus some but does not have much of a reserve. Using as intended is absolutely fine. But putting on a bigger spindle or a big dust collection head and you are in for trouble ... yeah, we did that to our poor guy, bad idea.

@ TechGuy
For the CT cyclone check the 50mm by-meter hose and separate ends caps. That way you can make the hose as short as possible and you will lose almost no air volume there.
On the Festool side, just get Festool hose end that goes into the vac. On the other side, you can 3D print something which will align with the port of the cyclone.

Reg anti-static.
There is no real requirement to use anti-static hoses. Definitely not between the CT and the cyclone you plan. When the cyclone is from casual plastic like the CV6, there will be nothing to even connect the CT hose to conductively anyway ...

Ref hose from cyclone to CNC, make sure it is as flexible as possible (so not too wide) and suspend it from something so you put the least possible force to the spindle when moving. In other words, you do NOT want to use the Festool AS hose that came with the CT for that purpose. Use the AS hose for non-CNC tasks as that is what it is optimised for - there the rigidity as well as the sleeve are desirable.

Ref general recommendation:
Get the Bluetooth module for the CT and the remote. You can keep it on hand at your control computer and do not need to be running around to the CT before you start the CNC. It is also extremely convenient when using the CT for general cleanup.

Ref the CT model choice:
If you want to use the CT with a cyclone, there is no real benefit getting the CT36 size. Just get the CT 26 as with a cyclone the increased bag capacity is not really much of a concern and the CT26 will be easier to move around for non-CNC use. A filled-up CT36 is easily 100 pounds ...

Also keep in mind the AC function is not optimal for cyclone/CNC use. It is really for drywall sanding etc. If this will be your only vac, still is better getting the AC model as it makes it universal. But then also get the cheaper "non-AC" microfilter for using with a bag with the cyclone. Leaving the AC option /and the included HP microfilter/ dedicated only for AC use for use without a bag in auto-clean mode.
Once you messy up the microfilter with bag-less operation, it is non-practical to use it with bags so you want two main filters when using CT AC version as the universal toy.

Hope helps.

 

[afish]

Im aware its a smaller machine but unless its something like one of those machines that uses a dremel motor I wouldnt use a CT.  If it uses something like a 2+ hp router motor. I would be hooking 4" to it.  if thats to much then I would split the 4" into 2 lines and use one for the dust shoe and have another for cleaning around it but thats just me but Im not a fan of dust. At the very least some 2" - 2.5" hose.

I would be looking at something more like this as a min. 

If you do the 4" correctly and have a singular vertical drop of a few feet that is in the "center" of the XY axis there should be very little lateral force.  Its when people just string the 4" willy nilly off to one side so the motors have to pull the hose along is when issues happen.  As mentioned the 4" is at the High end but would give the option for some extra outlets.  I have mine split as well with a separate 4" line with a dust right handle and bench nozzle for cleaning in and around and cleaning the table after parts are removed.  No matter how good your DC is you will have chips in the kerfs and when you remove everything you will have a mess on the bed to clean too.

 

[mino]

The shapeoko really cannot handle 4", a flexible 2-3" is probably the max there. Not there is the need.

While the default spindle is relatively powerful in watts/horses, it has a pretty low torque and you cannot really send it flying too fast either. The gantry would just not handle the forces.

Shapeoko is really a "small hobby CNC" in all respects with all the limitations that come with it. The XXL version is relatively big, but mostly just increases the max size, keeping the other limitations.

 

[TechGuy]

First congratulations on your new CNC.

Well, I hate to be the one to tell you but I think you are about to be disappointed in the CT for your purpose. I would recommend a small dust collector with a 4" hose.  On the higher end the HF unit will do a very good job for your size cnc or a smaller dust right type unit you can skip the cyclone for now and add it later if needed concentrate on getting the collector and good filter first.  If budget is an issue check the used listings and just buy the filter new. On the low end I would get the largest most powerful shop vac possible. Hard pipe it as far as you can and use as little flex as possible.  CNC's make a ton of dust and that CT is not going to keep up. (I own the CT36ac too) and would never use it on a even a small cnc.  Plus the bag cost issue.  I use a large 3hp laguna cyclone with 6" being the smallest diameter in the system, It doesnt take much for me to fill a 55 gallon drum full of dust.  Also check out THIS GUY for the best dust shoe.  Not sure if he makes one for your model but he will design one if not.  You will be tempted to make your own as your first project but it wont be nearly as good as his. Good and proper DC is the most important part without good DC you will not be happy. Here is a pic of my shoe he made me. I can plane a 4x8 sheet of MDF with a 3+ inch bit with virtually no dust. not sure if you have ever seen a 3 inch surfacing bit hit MDF with no or poor dust collection but its a sight to be seen.  1 pass of about 4' is enough to fill a 2 car garage with a plum of dust.

Thank you, I checked in the Shapeoko community before posting here and one of the people that work for Shapeoko uses a CT26 and said it works fine as I was looking some DC's but my 78" ceiling is too short for most of the systems. Also my enclosure would not fit a 4" hose. I would have to modify it/build a new one as it is only 23" tall. I did check that Etsy shop there was nothing for my Shapeoko. I have never seen a 3" bit on MDF that I imagine that it's gotta be a big mess. I haven't seen any adapters for 4 to 2.5"

 

[TechGuy]

@ TechGuy
For the CT cyclone check the 50mm by-meter hose and separate ends caps. That way you can make the hose as short as possible and you will lose almost no air volume there.
On the Festool side, just get Festool hose end that goes into the vac. On the other side, you can 3D print something which will align with the port of the cyclone.

I don't quite follow you on this, are you saying to buy 50mm hose by the foot and add adapters?

Ref hose from cyclone to CNC, make sure it is as flexible as possible (so not too wide) and suspend it from something so you put the least possible force to the spindle when moving. In other words, you do NOT want to use the Festool AS hose that came with the CT for that purpose. Use the AS hose for non-CNC tasks as that is what it is optimised for - there the rigidity as well as the sleeve are desirable.

Any recommendations where to get this hose ? Looks like the Shapeoko Sweepy 2.0 will take a shopvac size hose (2.5") and the cyclone seems to be 2.5" as well.

Would this work ?https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Collection-Collectors-Ports-Vacuums/dp/B01L0FZOQ8/

And then these ends ?https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-Vacuum-Threaded-SVR-4515-4pk/dp/B00KB82874

Ref the CT model choice:
If you want to use the CT with a cyclone, there is no real benefit getting the CT36 size. Just get the CT 26 as with a cyclone the increased bag capacity is not really much of a concern and the CT26 will be easier to move around for non-CNC use. A filled-up CT36 is easily 100 pounds ...

Wow I had no idea it could be this heavy.

Also keep in mind the AC function is not optimal for cyclone/CNC use. It is really for drywall sanding etc. If this will be your only vac, still is better getting the AC model as it makes it universal. But then also get the cheaper "non-AC" microfilter for using with a bag with the cyclone. Leaving the AC option /and the included HP microfilter/ dedicated only for AC use for use without a bag in auto-clean mode.
Once you messy up the microfilter with bag-less operation, it is non-practical to use it with bags so you want two main filters when using CT AC version as the universal toy.

My intention for getting the AC model was that it would help the filter last longer and be useful if I ever wanted to get a drywall sander for it. I don't have an immediate use/need for a drywall sander but thought it would be nice to have that option in the future. I also don't want to burn out the CT36 if the AC option is going to cause problems.

So replace the microfilter that comes in it with a non AC microfilter and put a bag in it ?

 

[afish]

Rockler does sell a flexible 2.5 hose. link I have never used it but pretty sure its more flexible than the typical shop vac hose too.  Im still a fan of stepping up to a small dust collector and splitting the 4" off to a 2.5 for the cnc and having a couple ports for other things such as cleaning up the cnc and around it, floor sweep etc.  some blast gates will allow you to fine tune the amount of suction at the cnc.  I know I have a much bigger setup but I run both the 6" line to the dust shoe and the 4" line to the hand nozzle wide open all the time but I am moving a lot of air so it doesnt really matter.  When I first installed it I ran everything directly to the CNC and gradually stepped down from 8" duct to 6" and then finally 4" flex to the cnc.  My dust collector would over heat plus the 4" flex would suck itself together (compress) super tight.  I had to give it another 4" port that was wide open all the time so it wasnt working so hard and relax the hose a bit.  Things got even better going to the 6" to the cnc and running a 4" to a clean up nozzle my hose stays relaxed and DC is happy even in the Florida heat.  My point is it not just the size of the hose but balancing the air flow so you are not putting additional strain on the cnc motors.  If you reach out to the guy on etsy he will make you whatever you want just fyi.  After looking closer a 4" all the way to the cnc is overkill but splitting the 4" to a 2.5 still seems better.  I own the CT36AC and dont think you "need" the AC function for the CNC BUT if you plan to get the planex then its a smart move to get the AC now.  I have never installed any bigger than 27mm hose on my CT36 so I cant say how much better the larger hose works but wouldnt dream of hooking it up with the air flow I get from the 27mm.  So now you got a grand in the DE plus the extra hose.  As you say though its part of a future purpose you will need later anyways so its 50/50.  Also Im assuming if you do get a PLanex you will need to be hooking/unhooking to take with you then if its on a job you have nothing for the CNC.  So if thats a situation you can see yourself in its another reason to get something dedicated to the CNC and get the CT when you buy the Planex.  The 200 shop vac is still an option that will give you a dedicated vac to the cnc for very little money.  The db's have gotten better I think that one is rated at 76 which is probably close to what a CT is but it has more CFM's for sure.   

Also the wording "works fine" gives me pause.  There can be a vast difference between fine, good and great.  Had you asked me about the DC prior to the new shoe and 6" hose I would have said it worked "good" after its now great and worlds better.  so try to skip "fine" and go straight to great if possible 

 

[mino]

I don't quite follow you on this, are you saying to buy 50mm hose by the foot and add adapters?

Basically, yes. Festool hoses can be purchased either as full sets (usually cheaper) or as standalone by-feet plus the ends separately. I am not sure where you are based, so just for reference:
50mm hoses by-meter:https://www.festool.de/zubehoer/454157---d-36-mwhttps://www.festool.de/zubehoer/452386---d-50-mw-as
Vac-side end:https://www.festool.de/zubehoer/452896---d-50-dag-as

Any recommendations where to get this hose ? Looks like the Shapeoko Sweepy 2.0 will take a shopvac size hose (2.5") and the cyclone seems to be 2.5" as well.

Would this work ?https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Collection-Collectors-Ports-Vacuums/dp/B01L0FZOQ8/

And then these ends ?https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-Vacuum-Threaded-SVR-4515-4pk/dp/B00KB82874

Not have these, but looks about right. The key is for the hose going to the spindle being as flexible as possible and being suspended, ideally from as high up as possible so the spindle is not restricted and can move freely around with the hose attached.

My intention for getting the AC model was that it would help the filter last longer and be useful if I ever wanted to get a drywall sander for it. I don't have an immediate use/need for a drywall sander but thought it would be nice to have that option in the future. I also don't want to burn out the CT36 if the AC option is going to cause problems.

So replace the microfilter that comes in it with a non AC microfilter and put a bag in it ?

Yes, the HP microfilter required for bag-less operation is absolutely fine for use with bags. But it is waste using it with bags while paper one is half the cost and works the same in that role. Plan using the bags with the CNC. The cyclone will mean you need very little of them anyway.

Auto-clean concept does not work well with wood. The fibres get entangled with the filter so AC cannot get rid of them reliably. The self-clean bags form Festool are anti-stick from inside, so are like from another world. They also do not restrict the air flow, to the contrary actually, when compared to a bagless AC mode. In practice, you can get about 90% volume of the self-clean bags filled with dust before you start losing suction power. So a 26-liter bag when full is 20+ litres of settled dust. 40 pounds for the bag itself, easily depending on the dust type. Then comes the vac weight on top.

AC is still a must for drywall due to the micro-particles clogging even the self-clean bags. So the capability is certainly good to have in one vac at home.

 

[semenza]

Festool does not sell hose by the foot in the USA.

Seth

 

[mino]

Festool does not sell hose by the foot in the USA.

Seth

Thanks good to know.

In that case the $155 cleaning set is probably the best deal here:https://www.festoolusa.com/accessory/454770---d-50-gs-rs

Will still leave one with a rough-work setup should one need it. The 2.5m AS hose lacks the secondary use case so IMO not worth it.

@ afish
Someone was measuring it, basically came about "1-2-3".

I.e. you get 1x the air volume from the default 32/27 3.5m hose, 2x the air volume from D36 3.5m hose and about 3x the volume using a D50 hose.

 

[TechGuy]

Rockler does sell a flexible 2.5 hose. link I have never used it but pretty sure its more flexible than the typical shop vac hose too.  Im still a fan of stepping up to a small dust collector and splitting the 4" off to a 2.5 for the cnc and having a couple ports for other things such as cleaning up the cnc and around it, floor sweep etc.  some blast gates will allow you to fine tune the amount of suction at the cnc.  I know I have a much bigger setup but I run both the 6" line to the dust shoe and the 4" line to the hand nozzle wide open all the time but I am moving a lot of air so it doesnt really matter.  When I first installed it I ran everything directly to the CNC and gradually stepped down from 8" duct to 6" and then finally 4" flex to the cnc.  My dust collector would over heat plus the 4" flex would suck itself together (compress) super tight.  I had to give it another 4" port that was wide open all the time so it wasnt working so hard and relax the hose a bit.  Things got even better going to the 6" to the cnc and running a 4" to a clean up nozzle my hose stays relaxed and DC is happy even in the Florida heat.  My point is it not just the size of the hose but balancing the air flow so you are not putting additional strain on the cnc motors.  If you reach out to the guy on etsy he will make you whatever you want just fyi.  After looking closer a 4" all the way to the cnc is overkill but splitting the 4" to a 2.5 still seems better.  I own the CT36AC and dont think you "need" the AC function for the CNC BUT if you plan to get the planex then its a smart move to get the AC now.  I have never installed any bigger than 27mm hose on my CT36 so I cant say how much better the larger hose works but wouldnt dream of hooking it up with the air flow I get from the 27mm.  So now you got a grand in the DE plus the extra hose.  As you say though its part of a future purpose you will need later anyways so its 50/50.  Also Im assuming if you do get a PLanex you will need to be hooking/unhooking to take with you then if its on a job you have nothing for the CNC.  So if thats a situation you can see yourself in its another reason to get something dedicated to the CNC and get the CT when you buy the Planex.  The 200 shop vac is still an option that will give you a dedicated vac to the cnc for very little money.  The db's have gotten better I think that one is rated at 76 which is probably close to what a CT is but it has more CFM's for sure.   

Also the wording "works fine" gives me pause.  There can be a vast difference between fine, good and great.  Had you asked me about the DC prior to the new shoe and 6" hose I would have said it worked "good" after its now great and worlds better.  so try to skip "fine" and go straight to great if possible 

The only options I have for my basement due to a 78" ceiling that offer HEPA filtration are all Oneida Air products, The Cobra, or Supercell are the only two I would consider but the supercell is very expensive and I am afraid it may be too powerful for the cnc as it has to have reinforced hoses, so my concern would be that the hose to the CNC boot would be too stiff. Not really sure what else I could use that isn't huge machine. I would buy a Clearvue System but it won't fit in my basement except their mini cyclone.

 

[afish]

not sure if I missed the fact that this was a basement shop. This changes things a bit. I basically takes the larger collector out of the picture.  However, it can also work to your advantage. I have no idea how your basement windows are but based on tje fact you only have 78" ceiling height that tells me its an older home. No walk out, and most likely those smaller 36x16ish windows, possibly glass block.  If so I would probably look to install one that has a dryer vent built in or install a dryer vent port near by. then hook the shop vac exhaust port to the dryer vent this will port 100% of any dust to the outdoors. At this point a hepa filter is not needed.

 

[TechGuy]

not sure if I missed the fact that this was a basement shop. This changes things a bit. I basically takes the larger collector out of the picture.  However, it can also work to your advantage. I have no idea how your basement windows are but based on tje fact you only have 78" ceiling height that tells me its an older home. No walk out, and most likely those smaller 36x16ish windows, possibly glass block.  If so I would probably look to install one that has a dryer vent built in or install a dryer vent port near by. then hook the shop vac exhaust port to the dryer vent this will port 100% of any dust to the outdoors. At this point a hepa filter is not needed.

It is an older home, no walkout, glass block windows. No Windows on the front of the basement wall, where this is located and that wall goes to the front yard. I would not be able to vent it outside there as it would be right where my dog is in the yard so I would blowing all of this towards her. Plus I would have to have a hole punched through to the outside. to install a vent.

I talked to Oneida my only choice would be the Supercell if I do not go with a CT36. The Cobra at 45+ lbs I would not be able to lift the top off of due to my back.

 

[LDBecker]

I put a CT-VA on my CT-36 (and also my new CT-Midi), and used it for vacuuming remaining cuttings from my Laguna IQ Pro CNC. The 4" duct I have going directly to the CNC from my old Delta 1.5hp dust collector does't pick up everything from the CNC, especially if I'm using a compression bit that tends to push chips into the cut line. I have to use a separate vacuum to clear out the chips or it affects the quality of cut and makes it difficult to pull parts out (the 4" ducting does fine with engraving cuts and non-through cuts). I went with a CT-Midi instead of another CT-36 or a 26 because of the lighter weight for taking on projects off-site and because of the built-in bluetooth. I really like it for jobs away from my shop.

You'd be surprised at how much debris is generated by a CNC - it is helpful to have something like the CT-VA that is easily emptied and so you can see when it's getting full. I have a little Oneida Super Dust Deputy on my planer (other side of the workshop) and THAT really fills up quickly. I had to get one of their sensors that flashes a light to let me know it's full.

 

[kf4zht]

I tried running my CT mini as the dust collection on my Shapeoko 3. It did an ok job but not as good as a standard shop vac. Not sure why but I think it was related to the size of the dust port on the SO3. Ended up running a bucket with seperator head and one of these on the machinehttps://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...ries-WD4070/202077241?ITC=AUC-126546-23-12140

Its choice was somewhat limited by the space I was putting in in, however the combination works well. These machines make a lot of debris, the last weekend project I did involved emptying the 4 gal bucket 6 times

 

[afish]

Im still in the shop vac frame of mind still being the best too.  You are going to want every CFM you can reasonably get.  Every separator, elbow, foot of hose you add is going to be stealing CFM's They do make hepa filters for shop vacs.  And I would still try to port it outside even if that involved running some 2+ inch PVC pipe 20-30 feet to a side of the house that you can vent it. Hard pipe everything you can keeping any bends to a min.  I cant really imagine using a CNC inside of a home without some really good DC.  As mentioned earlier you have 2 phases of dust. 1. while actually cutting and 2. once done cutting all the chips packed in the kerfs (this is much worse when "cutting" not engraving).  It pretty impressive how much dust can be packed in even a .25 kerf. So, when you go to take the parts off no matter how good your collection is while cutting you are going to be making a mess and dust when separating the parts.  If its more sign/engraving work it won't be as bad with a good DC 

 

[smorgasbord]

Rockler does sell a flexible 2.5 hose. link I have never used it but pretty sure its more flexible than the typical shop vac hose too. ...

I have the Shapeoko Pro Standard-size (same spindle though) and use that Rockler hose with my Makita VC4710 dust collector. The combo works just fine with the Carbide3D-included Sweepy V2.0.

With my smaller CNC bed, I didn't even have to deal with the hose much - I simply attach it to the top left of the gantry and then the table, and the flexibility/stability of the hose is just great for the max spans. For your XXL size, though, I suspect you'll have to figure out some kind of overhead hose support.

Note that the hose tries to contract in length quite a bit when the vacuum is on. I've even connected the Makita standard hose to the Rockler hose and it sucks up just about everything through the two of them in series. Remember, the spindle is really just a Makita trim router, so you're somewhat limited in how much chips and dust are produced. You definitely won't need a 4" hose with this unit unless you do something like a big spindle upgrade.