Souber door lock mortise jig

[woodbutcherbower]

I had a 'panic' phone call from a good builder buddy a few days ago - he's only a coupla weeks away from finishing and handing over a small new office block in the city centre. His regular joiner had sadly suffered a family bereavement and suddenly wasn't available to hang all the building's new fire doors. Could I help out? He's a super guy who has put a heck of a lot of work my way and I owed him multiple major return favours - so I agreed immediately.

He then told me that there were 44 of them to do  [eek]

I've always chopped out door lock mortises the traditional way, using an auger and chisels followed by a quarter-inch router to recess the lock faceplate. I realised that it was time to up my game in the speed department since I only had ten days available to do all of these. So I bought the Souber. It's a very well-engineered but simple-as-possible gadget, it's completely self-centering, and the price is very reasonable (just £130) considering that fact that it comes with a full set of cutters. These are proprietary, looking like a cross between a router bit and a Forstner, and with them being dimensioned to suit all standard UK lock case and faceplate sizes. Once it's dialled in, it produces a perfect mortise and faceplate recess in 5 minutes.

After a few practise runs, it instantly became of those 'Why didn't I buy this 10 years ago?' tools.

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Kevin

 

[tjbnwi]

I was on a jobsite yesterday, the trim carpenter was installing mortise locks. He used the Portercable mortice machine to do the pocketing. Pretty cool how it worked. The one thing he did say he needs to do is place cardboard under the door clamps otherwise the clamping pressure mars the door finish.
https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-513-Horsepower-Lock-Mortiser/dp/B0000224LA

Tom

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] Thanks for the tip - but Souber already thought of that. The clamps have rubber pads on the door-face sides. During my trial runs I clamped up as hard as possible onto scrap 4" x 2" softwood and there was no marking whatsoever. Thanks again though.

 

[Cheese]

Well this is funny, I have a folder on my computer that I label "Tools" and any interesting tools I come across that I may later have a use for, I throw into the Tools folder. Well I recognized this Souber jig and sure enough, it along with some special aluminum cutters and the instruction manual were in the folder.  [smile]

For anyone in the US that's interested, this Souber is retailed by MBA USA.
https://mbausa.com/souber-dbb-door-lock-morticer-standard-kit/

 

[live4ever]

I got this jig a while back after it was recommended in a thread I started about deep mortises (for pocket door locks).  I’ve used it a couple of times and it’s pretty great.  Wondering if it’s also a good solution for hinge mortises (door and jamb) with the offset add-on. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The Porter-Cable unit has been around for a long time. I remember Norm and Tommy using one on a The Old House project house, back in the day. It's a very specialty tool that only those you would use it to earn a living, would ever even know it existed.
That was back before Porter-Cable got absorbed by a conglomerate. It's just a shell of its former glory, basically a name only type thing.

I take it that this Souber tool is powered by a drill? Even at that, 44 doors in 10 days is quite a thing.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I take it that this Souber tool is powered by a drill? Even at that, 44 doors in 10 days is quite a thing.

It is powered by a drill, CRG. Souber recommend a corded one with at least 2500-3000rpm (I already mentioned that the cutters look like a router bit so I'm guessing that's why the higher rpm is needed). Fortunately I have an ancient DeWalt dinosaur which has been thrown back into active duty, and it's doing a good job.

4-5 doors per day isn't an unreasonable ask, especially since this is a small office block with multiple doors lined up in corridors very close to each other, and all the frames have been perfectly installed (the sadly unavailable guy is very, very good). He's already routed the grooves in the frames for the intumescent smoke seals which saves me that part of the job. The hardware's also pretty forgiving, with each handle set being held together by just two Chicago bolts meaning minimal drilling, and the hydraulic self-closers are good quality ones supplied with their own drilling jig, making them quick and easy to install.

They're solid-core 60-minute rated fire doors so they're crazy heavy - and that means four hinges per door. Two at the top, one in the middle, and one at the bottom. I'm going to drop by ahead of time and knock up a hinge routing jig which will also speed things up when I start this job towards the end of the week. The builder's also assigned a labourer to me for the first day - he'll do all of the heavy lifting and 'park' each door next to its frame all ready for me. It's all pretty much as good as it gets.

 

[Cheese]

They're solid-core 60-minute rated fire doors so they're crazy heavy - and that means four hinges per door. Two at the top, one in the middle, and one at the bottom.

So 2 questions...what weight is crazy heavy?

Why is the hinge spacing as it is?

I have many questions about a pair of French doors that were hung in the garage and I just need to figure this out.

 

[GaryA]

My son talked me into getting a Souber 5 years ago. Brilliant piece of kit.
I use it a lot even for a tubular latch.
Should you need to do extra deep mortice Axminster sell the longer shaft.
Tyzack tools are my go to for cutters.
I have only ever used it with a C18

 

[woodbutcherbower]

So 2 questions...what weight is crazy heavy?
Why is the hinge spacing as it is?
I have many questions about a pair of French doors that were hung in the garage and I just need to figure this out.

Most of the doors are 2040mm x 838mm x 54mm thick = that's 80" x 33" x 2". They weigh 55kg each (120 pounds).
There are some, however, which are a little wider (2 x plant rooms and 2 x meeting rooms) which weigh 63kg each (just under 140 pounds).

The minimum requirement for UK fire regulations is 3 hinges, with a 3mm gap between the door edge and the frame. I referred to 'intumescent seals' in a post above - these are strips of thermoplastic which sit in a groove routed into the door frame. In the event of a fire, the heat causes these strips to rapidly swell and form an airtight smoke seal between the frame and the door. These strips can only expand by 4-5mm maximum, hence the stipulated 3mm gap. Because of this requirement for absolute gap accuracy, many fire doors are supplied as a CNC-machined set along with a frame to suit.

The hinges themselves also need to be fire-rated (so-called 'Grade 13' over here) and that invariably means 316 stainless steel. Because of the weight, many joiners (myself included) fit an extra hinge at the top, because the top of the door is under tension = the weight of the door is trying to pull the screws out. As you move further down the door however, this tension becomes compression, so this potential point of failure disappears. Look upon the 4th hinge as a cheap insurance policy.

And if you were wondering how these things get lifted into place once the machining's done - I use a door lifter [big grin] It's like a small see-saw. One end goes under the door, the other end is foot-operated. It also pivots in the middle so allows to you move the lifted door from side-to-side get it lined up with the frame hinge recesses.
https://trenddirectuk.com/trend-d-l...cP8aYXjBfOy4ZMbJVBjGUeyL7WQUXt4Kvzp_mqMsRun0o

Hope that helps.

Kevin

 

[woodbutcherbower]

My son talked me into getting a Souber 5 years ago. Brilliant piece of kit.
I use it a lot even for a tubular latch.
Should you need to do extra deep mortice Axminster sell the longer shaft.
Tyzack tools are my go to for cutters.
I have only ever used it with a C18

Cheers mate - I'll bear that in mind.
All the best.

 

[luvmytoolz]

That's a pretty awesome price for that kit, terrific value by the look!

Does it hold solid, no moving around?

 

[GaryA]

I have never had an issue with movement.
The only thing I did was check and tighten some of the nuts when it was new as it was a little loose.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

That's a pretty awesome price for that kit, terrific value by the look!

Does it hold solid, no moving around?

Yep, absolutely rock solid. And as said - the clamps have rubber pads on the face so you can clamp up really tight without marking the door face.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

(Snip)

Why is the hinge spacing as it is?

I have many questions about a pair of French doors that were hung in the garage and I just need to figure this out.

Hi Cheese,

Adding the fourth hinge at the top (or moving the third/middle hinge towards the top) provides better support for heavy doors and windows. In the North American method of evenly spacing the three hinges, the middle hinge really isn't doing much other than providing some amount of resistance to the bending moment imparted on the jamb, but otherwise isn't doing much to pick up the weight of the door. Adding a hinge at the top or moving the middle hinge upwards helps to pick up more weight from the door.

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@ woodbutcherbower,

That's great to hear you're getting good use out of the Souber DBB. I auditioned one a few years ago, I was getting a lot of chatter but I suspect my Hilti drill (~1,800 rpm) wasn't spinning sufficiently fast. My memory is that the only way to get a drill that spun fast enough (2,500rpm+) with enough power was to go with a professional hammer drill. I'm young enough (45 years old) that never got around to buying a hammer drill, and jumped straight to rotary hammers, which hit much harder but also have relatively low rpm.

For my needs, I ultimately opted for the Virutex Lock Mortiser FC116U:https://www.virutextools.com/machines-for-doors-and-windows/lock-mortiser-fc116u-pid316

The Porter Cable lock mortiser previously mentioned has long been out of production, but the Virutex is functionally identical to the Porter Cable and, crucially, is still in active production, so there's good access to replacement parts and support.

The Virutex/Porter Cable does require some amount of "programming" to get it dialed-in, but once you have it set  up it can knock out a full lock mortise in a matter of minutes. I think it uses the same style of cutters as the Souber DBB.

One neat feature of the Virutex (and possible the Porter Cable?) is that you can fit it with an indexing rod, so once you've set it up on one door, you set the rod to index off the top edge of the door. So, for the rest of the doors you just hook the rod on the top of the door, and the elevation is set.

Again, the Virutex is definitely a "one trick pony", and really only suitable for professional door hangers.

Honorable mention goes to the Mafell SKS 130 portable door lock chain mortiser.....

 

[Packard]

I would note that the video shows a DeWalt line voltage plug-in drill.

I purchased one (maybe the same one shown in the video) because it had a 2,500 rpm rated motor and seemingly does not slow down under load.

I purchased that because the speed it would drill as well as the holes look cleaner with the higher speed drill.

In any case, most battery-powered drills will go slower than the video.

Cool looking jig though.

 

[Duckler]

No one commented about how this is potentially the “poor man’s Domino”. So maybe it is not.
Or am I underthinking it?

 

[Michael Kellough]

No one commented about how this is potentially the “poor man’s Domino”. So maybe it is not.
Or am I underthinking it?

Interesting idea!

Depends on how well the mortise stays parallel to the stock face. Might not be enough secure guidance for the bit to keep the mortise parallel enough to the stock face for things like door assembly where you want large mortises like this could make. Lock hardware isn’t as finicky about the mortise as a tenon that needs to be glued.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

No one commented about how this is potentially the “poor man’s Domino”. So maybe it is not.
Or am I underthinking it?

You're getting essentially the same result, on a much larger scale, but the mechanics are quite different.
The Domino machines move the bit back and forth on a pivot point, through a gearbox that translates the spinning into the pivot too.
The Porter Cable one runs by a mid-sized router, but it only spins the bit. The entire router moves up and down on a mechanism that you crank by hand. It has stops that adjust the length of the slot and the main mechanism controls the depth of cut, which is way more than any plunge router.

 

[Cheese]

Most of the doors are 2040mm x 838mm x 54mm thick = that's 80" x 33" x 2". They weigh 55kg each (120 pounds).
There are some, however, which are a little wider (2 x plant rooms and 2 x meeting rooms) which weigh 63kg each (just under 140 pounds).

The minimum requirement for UK fire regulations is 3 hinges, with a 3mm gap between the door edge and the frame. I referred to 'intumescent seals' in a post above - these are strips of thermoplastic which sit in a groove routed into the door frame. In the event of a fire, the heat causes these strips to rapidly swell and form an airtight smoke seal between the frame and the door. These strips can only expand by 4-5mm maximum, hence the stipulated 3mm gap. Because of this requirement for absolute gap accuracy, many fire doors are supplied as a CNC-machined set along with a frame to suit.

The hinges themselves also need to be fire-rated (so-called 'Grade 13' over here) and that invariably means 316 stainless steel. Because of the weight, many joiners (myself included) fit an extra hinge at the top, because the top of the door is under tension = the weight of the door is trying to pull the screws out. As you move further down the door however, this tension becomes compression, so this potential point of failure disappears. Look upon the 4th hinge as a cheap insurance policy.

And if you were wondering how these things get lifted into place once the machining's done - I use a door lifter [big grin] It's like a small see-saw. One end goes under the door, the other end is foot-operated. It also pivots in the middle so allows to you move the lifted door from side-to-side get it lined up with the frame hinge recesses.
https://trenddirectuk.com/trend-d-l...cP8aYXjBfOy4ZMbJVBjGUeyL7WQUXt4Kvzp_mqMsRun0o

Hope that helps.

Kevin

Thanks for that Kevin... ...that was a great help. The French doors that were hung are 80" x 36" x 1-3/4" and hold full view thermo-pane glass elements so they are not unlike the doors you're referring to. I estimate each door is 120#-135# as I thought I'd move each one into the install position...then common sense kicked in and I thought...you're paying to have these things installed...just let the subs do their work.  [big grin]

One of the nagging issues I have is that doors this heavy were hung with 3 equally spaced stainless ball bearing hinges using 4 each #8 x 1-1/4" screws. It seems to me more appropriate to use 4 hinges with #9 or #10 screws that are 2-1/2" to 3 " long so that they engage the studs.

This has been a monkey f... installation since day one. I'm caught between the Scyilla and Charybdis stage where if I poke too much they don't respond and if I take things into my own hands, they disavow any responsibility for the results.