Steve Jobs and a world gone mad

[andy5405]

It is sad to see anyone die but I really think the world has lost the plot with it's take on just how much Steve Jobs affected the information revolution. I worked in comms for many years and saw it all happen and implemented it for many clients from small offices to large corporates. The revolution happened and reached critical mass with Apple only playing a bit part. Their success from the late 90's onwards, which is undoubtedly driven by Jobs, has been enabled by technology that has been bought to the mass market by others. Tim Berners Lee is a visionary and changed the way we live but who amongst the people fighting to pay ever more ridiculous compliments to Jobs has heard of him. IBM and all the clones have had far more impact than anything Apple did, Bill Gates and the clever proliferation of cheap DOS have played a far bigger part. Apple's products are extremely good and particularly good in Job's second innings but a funky overpriced mobile phone and an mp3 player is not enough in my book to warrant the level of praise Apple and Jobs are receiving.

To all you Apple fanatics out there, I'm sad to see him go to but my grief is because he has left a family and loved ones behind. All that you cherish gadget wise would have happened without him.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Andy,

Not trying to convince you of anything, but I think you've lost sight of it being all about devices and Steve Jobs.  He can't be limited to his accomplishments only while at Apple.  You've got to look at his life as a whole, how he took what was already out there and made it better, made it more desirable, easier and accessable to the masses, his distant visions of technology and how people would be using things years ahead.  Sure he ticked off a lot of people along the way, but his accomplishments in business and the effects he had on technology as a whole, put him at a level few have achieved.

 

[andy5405]

I totally agree that the guy is awesome. I have read a lot of commentary in all the tributes being paid to him and my feeling is that the accolades are disproportionate in many cases. I caught a brief snippet of his speech at Stanford on the BBC news yesterday and it was incredibly empowering. He was certainly an enabler but not necessary the great innovator that so many seem to think he was. He did take things and make them better particularly with the Ipod and Iphone. They have to stand out because of their mass market appeal. It's ironic in a way as the anti Microsoft lobby (i.e any Apple fanatic or open source software junkie) always used to criticize Bill Gates for only copying what others had already innovated.    

The other thing is they are all only gadgets and as much as technology has empowered us it has taken something away from a simpler time that we will probably never see again. I think Apple users and Festool users have a lot in common and we perhaps get a little too fond of our toys when there are more important things out there. I have the green disease but have never taken a bite of the apple.... 

 

[peter halle]

I prefer the word enthusiast versus fanatic.

Peter

 

[greg mann]

While I understand the sentiments expressed, from either perspective, I believe the title is a bit of hyperbole. There are numerous global situations that could describe a world gone mad that have nothing to do with Jobs or electronics and would be closer to the real concept of madness.

 

[fidelfs]

I totally agree that the guy is awesome. I have read a lot of commentary in all the tributes being paid to him and my feeling is that the accolades are disproportionate in many cases. I caught a brief snippet of his speech at Stanford on the BBC news yesterday and it was incredibly empowering. He was certainly an enabler but not necessary the great innovator that so many seem to think he was. He did take things and make them better particularly with the Ipod and Iphone. They have to stand out because of their mass market appeal. It's ironic in a way as the anti Microsoft lobby (i.e any Apple fanatic or open source software junkie) always used to criticize Bill Gates for only copying what others had already innovated.    

The other thing is they are all only gadgets and as much as technology has empowered us it has taken something away from a simpler time that we will probably never see again. I think Apple users and Festool users have a lot in common and we perhaps get a little too fond of our toys when there are more important things out there. I have the green disease but have never taken a bite of the apple.... 

I would never understand the debate about Apple vs No Apple.  As I expressed several times I am a Software Engineer consultant, I have to use what the client has setup at their location.
I have different operating systems at home, windows, linux (several flavors) and mac.

I use the one that has the best tool for the assignment, kind of woodworking.  It does not have to be a mac.  When I am programming in Oracle, I use windows because there is a tool call PL/SQL Developer developed in the Netherlands that is the best for me and it only runs in Windows.  When I work with appointments, mail, etc, my option is Mac, so I used what is best for me.

I experienced the IT development first hand, this is how I make my living.  I started working on Mainframes (IBM) and I remember when the first PC appear into the landscape.
Bill Gates provided a tool for the masses, not perfect, but it worked and people were willing to pay for it.
Steve Jobs (RIP) had a different vision,he wanted to give the perfect tool (maybe a little aspergers of him).  He didn't want to give a good tool, he wanted to give the perfect tool. While he was doing that, he challenged the status quo, forcing others to make improvements to theirs.

I remember my first smartphone, I would call it a dumb phone.  It was a Treo, It was a so-so attempt to give something to the masses.  Then the iPhone came, I am not talking if you like it or not, this new phone forced others to make improvements and we saw the explosion of technology around a phone.  Then the iPad, how many attempts before for so many companies to give a pad (touch screen) computer, several and no one got traction until the Ipad.  We have now several competitors in the market.

That is what he did, he challenged the  status quo and gave us more options.  I thank him for that.

 

[joraft]

It is sad to see anyone die but I really think the world has lost the plot with it's take on just how much Steve Jobs affected the information revolution. I worked in comms for many years and saw it all happen and implemented it for many clients from small offices to large corporates. The revolution happened and reached critical mass with Apple only playing a bit part. Their success from the late 90's onwards, which is undoubtedly driven by Jobs, has been enabled by technology that has been bought to the mass market by others. Tim Berners Lee is a visionary and changed the way we live but who amongst the people fighting to pay ever more ridiculous compliments to Jobs has heard of him. IBM and all the clones have had far more impact than anything Apple did, Bill Gates and the clever proliferation of cheap DOS have played a far bigger part. Apple's products are extremely good and particularly good in Job's second innings but a funky overpriced mobile phone and an mp3 player is not enough in my book to warrant the level of praise Apple and Jobs are receiving.

To all you Apple fanatics out there, I'm sad to see him go to but my grief is because he has left a family and loved ones behind. All that you cherish gadget wise would have happened without him.

I agree with much of what you say, Andy, some of the articles I've read since Steve Job's passing are kind of over the top.  But this is often the case when eulogizing a high profile (not to mention extrememly popular) person. Also, I think many people around today aren't that familiar with the history of development in the computer world, so they are making many incorrect assumptions.

There's no doubt that Steve was an extremely talented person and very savvy businessman. He was ousted from Apple in 1985 essentially because he was too difficult to deal with (or so many say), and Apple came close to bankruptcy several times before his return as CEO in 1997. He obviously knew that the problem was in trying to compete directly with Microsoft, and immediately began taking the company in a completely different direction. What he accomplished in a relatively short period of time is nothing short of amazing.

I am deeply saddened by his death not because I'm an Apple fan, but because it is such a huge loss regardless of what type of computer I use.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Well said John.
I have been in the computer business since a computer took up a warehouse and was laid out like library stacks with wires everywhere.  You rearranged the wires to "program" it.

Science and technology are seldom moved forward by a single person.  Its the cumulative work of many that adds up to a critical mass.  TCP/IP was around for decades before the computer companies finally dropped their proprietary protocols and just used TCP/IP, saving users millions of dollars spent on interfaces (and I'll confess they spent a few hundred thousand of that on me [embarassed]) when I was interfacing IBM to Burroughs to Honeywell, etc).

Most of the computer companies of the 80s and 90s are gone now, in large part because they failed to change and improvise.  Apple, largely through Steve Jobs, has reinvented itself over and over and prospered.  I hope they can continue to do that and I hope more US companies can step out of the box and change before its too late.

 

[joraft]

I prefer the word enthusiast versus fanatic.

Peter, apparently you've never seen the hoards that camp out overnight just to be one of first to buy a newly released Apple product. Often a product they've never seen.

Enthusiasts?  [big grin]

 

[fidelfs]

I prefer the word enthusiast versus fanatic.

Peter, apparently you've never seen the hoards that camp out overnight just to be one of first to buy a newly released Apple product. Often a product they've never seen.

Enthusiasts?  [big grin]

I agree, I watched last night the news and one young lady explained why she was sad because Jobs death.  She said Apple gave her a laptop with a anti virus incorporated into the operating system and that is why she does not have viruses.

I posted recently that 92% of the 92% people buying computer don't know any better, this young lady bought because it is cool to have a apple laptop.

I don't like the term "fanatic" either but some time is right.

 

[tiralie]

There's no doubt that Steve was an extremely talented person and very savvy businessman. He was ousted from Apple in 1985 essentially because he was too difficult to deal with (or so many say), and Apple came close to bankruptcy several times before his return as CEO in 1997. He obviously knew that the problem was in trying to compete directly with Microsoft, and immediately began taking the company in a completely different direction. What he accomplished in a relatively short period of time is nothing short of amazing.

In in an Interview With Apple's First CEO Michael Scott Apple's first CEO (put in by Mike Markkula Apple's 1st significant investor) Mr. Scott pointed out that while Steve Jobs wanted to be employee #1, it would have been too much.
Mr. Scott also points out that Steve never had very many direct reports. While this is a good thing, (frees you up to innovate) it's usually an indication that someone is not good with people and I don't think that's a surprise to anyone. Mr. Scott also mentioned that  (to quote) "A lot of Apple is still somewhat mythology, and somewhat history, and you can't go back and change what it's perceived to be. What it's perceived to be is what the reality is now. What the daily grind was."
I am sure this is true for Jobs as well.
Tim

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I prefer the word enthusiast versus fanatic.

Peter, apparently you've never seen the hoards that camp out overnight just to be one of first to buy a newly released Apple product. Often a product they've never seen.

Enthusiasts?  [big grin]

I agree, I watched last night the news and one young lady explained why she was sad because Jobs death.  She said Apple gave her a laptop with a anti virus incorporated into the operating system and that is why she does not have viruses.
I posted recently that 92% of the 92% people buying computer don't know any better, this young lady bought because it is cool to have a apple laptop.

I don't like the term "fanatic" either but some time is right.

Maybe that's true and maybe she never got Listeria because someone caught her cantaloupe in time.  [blink]

 

[andy5405]

I want to provide a comprehensive answer to all the posts above but unfortunatley Guiness will not enable me to do so. So in brief:

When I said fanatic I meant it.

There was no hyperbole, I meant that too.

Regarding silly protocols that companies dropped, try Appletalk.

Steve Jobs is still awseome but we are still awaiting the second coming.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I want to provide a comprehensive answer to all the posts above but unfortunatley Guiness will not enable me to do so. So in brief:

When I said fanatic I meant it.

There was no hyperbole, I meant that too.

Regarding silly protocols that companies dropped, try Appletalk.

Steve Jobs is still awseome but we are still awaiting the second coming.

Andy, you missed it!  You can download it from the itunes store, though.  [big grin]

 

[RONWEN]

Steve Jobs was a brilliant workaholic driven for perfection (R.I.P.).  As I see it one of the most significant contributions in our world was the requirement for Microsoft to continually improve products to keep up (catch up?).

 

[fidelfs]

Steve Jobs was a brilliant workaholic driven for perfection (R.I.P.).  As I see it one of the most significant contributions in our world was the requirement for Microsoft to continually improve products to keep up (catch up?).

Exactly my point.

 

[andy5405]

Steve Jobs was a brilliant workaholic driven for perfection (R.I.P.).  As I see it one of the most significant contributions in our world was the requirement for Microsoft to continually improve products to keep up (catch up?).

Exactly my point.

I couldn't agree more and Microsoft probably never will catch up.

However it concerns me that a CEO of a hardware and software company is almost elevated to the level of being a deity if you read what some have to say. I know that is stretching it a bit but I mentioned this to a friend last night. I pointed out that there was a bit too much fuss and the guy was not Jesus and he immediately said that he knew exactly what I meant.

I actually don't care too much how the information revolution has happened and who played what part. It certainly interests me but that wasn't my underlying concern when I started this thread. It's more about how invasive technology and gadgetry has become in all our lives. There are undoubtedly benefits but I think there is a danger that we can become slaves to it and the tail is wagging the dog. I refuse to succumb to the smart phone revolution and have a basic Nokia which is reliable. I did upgrade my mobile package a couple of times and spent days salivating over my screen deciding which funky new gadget I would have next. The initial joy was shortlived though and it soon became just a phone and I wished I hadn't signed up to an expensive 18 month contract to get a "free phone".

The same applies to my PC. It's 8 years old and still going strong with only a memory and hard disk upgrade necessary. I could easily have all sorts of gadgetry but I've seen an awful lot of technology and it just doesn't cut it for me anymore. There is more to life and owning a gadget just to ensure that you have the latest and greatest is like a drug. The fix is short lived and you will be back for more real quick even though you know you're on the road to nowhere.

The reason that the reaction to Steve Jobs passing concerns me so much is what I think could be perceived as his legacy. He was undoubtedly the master at taking something that isn't necessarily that fundamental to achieving happiness and creating a disproportionate level of desire for whatever he was plugging at the time. He convinced the masses that ownership of one of his devices would do way more than it could. I have always been concerned and intrigued by the level of fanaticism and desire evident in many Apple fans. It is evident in everything technology wise that we all crave from tellys to Sat Navs to games consoles. The list is endless but Apple are the masters at creating desire. The product does have to be good to achieve that but it is not that good. It will not change peoples lives in the way they perceive it will when they are justifying a purchase they can't afford.

We live in a throwaway society that is crippled by bad debt and the disease is now global. We all know it's unsustainable and the whole world is like a house of cards right now that has to fall down as the foundations were built on ridiculous rampant consumerism. I think everyone agrees that it is going to get a whole lot tougher out there and when people struggle to feed their families they might just take a different view on all the gadgets surrounding them. When the kids are crying because they're hungry a tin of baked beans will become massively important. You can't eat an Iphone and that may well become Steve Job's legacy.     

 

[Nigel]

We live in a throwaway society that is crippled by bad debt and the disease is now global. We all know it's unsustainable and the whole world is like a house of cards right now that has to fall down as the foundations were built on ridiculous rampant consumerism. I think everyone agrees that it is going to get a whole lot tougher out there and when people struggle to feed their families they might just take a different view on all the gadgets surrounding them. When the kids are crying because they're hungry a tin of baked beans will become massively important. You can't eat an Iphone and that may well become Steve Job's legacy.     

Andy,

Absolutely all bang on especially the statement above.Nice to see someone speak about this on here .

 

[RONWEN]

And of course least we forget our wonderful news media which has an ever so slight tendency to hype up profiles -- Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith come to mind...  [blink]

Actually, forgive me for the unintended linkage above to Steve Jobs (R.I.P.).

 

[andy5405]

And of course least we forget our wonderful news media which has an ever so slight tendency to hype up profiles -- Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith come to mind...  [blink]

Actually, forgive me for the unintended linkage above to Steve Jobs (R.I.P.).

We should always bear in mind that the media are extremely adept at producing what we want to read. They get blamed for far too much when all they have done is exposed our frailties and exploited them. They would be powerless if we identified our weaknesses and did something about it.

I will never forget a discussion I had with my mum after Princess Diana died. She jumped on the bandwagon of blaming the press as did most of the world. I put it to her that she had blood on her hands as she was an avid reader of anything to do with the woman. She was offended and completed refuted my allegation. I then took her Daily Mail which was full to the brim with commentary on Princess Di and said she couldn't have it back. Her reaction to that was far more severe than the one I got when I accused her of being complicit in her demise. She knows I proved my point but never admitted to it.