Steve Jobs and a world gone mad

[pugilato]

Well, for what its worth, I think Steve Jobs did make a difference... especially for Apple shareholders.  He was not a saint for sure, but neither have so many others like him been.  The media, as always, is going a bit overboard on how he "invented" computers and "invented" the mouse yada yada (they have to fill airtime with something).  That is not Steve Jobs' fault, and having lived and been an enthusiastic participant in the whole computer revolution, I am pretty sure that in time the hoopla will settle down and he will take his proper place in history... good, bad or indifferent.

 

[Nigel]

I came out the test rubbing shoulders with Gandhi! [not worthy]

 

[andy5405]

Andy, I'm curious where you place on the graph that results when you take this Political Compass Test.

I'm even more curious what all our respective political aspirations would evolve into if we actually got the chance to implement our own ideology. That can be the only acid test and where all us armchair thinkers would soon discover how massively flawed we are.

Re my politics I would love to think that I'm apolitical and just try to think outside the box. I guess everyone thinks that to some extent though. I can definitely say that I hate aggression but thrive on friendly provocation and welcome any opportunity that enables me to think differently than I had before. I absolutely adore being wrong as it is the only way that I have ever learnt anything of value in my life. I marvel at individual human achievement and endeavour but totally despair of our collective ability to keep going in a direction that can only end in tears. I think all political systems are fundamentally flawed and haven't voted for years. I would like to but no-one has floated my boat but I would fiercely defend myself against anyone who tried to deprive me of my right to vote.

The short answer is Ghandi but it is so easy to skew that test either consciously or sub-consciously to align yourself with someone you really aren't.
 

 

[Nigel]

The short answer is Ghandi but it is so easy to skew that test either consciously or sub-consciously to align yourself with someone you really aren't.
 

That's why I included the not worthy smiley. [smile]

 

[CutsTwice]

I don't mean to come off as a cold fish, but a couple of thoughts from my poor little brain:
1. He was a narcissistic billionaire that most likely none of us have ever met, and probably wouldn't care for his domineering personality if we did.
2. It's a shame that anyone dies from cancer, but come-on people, he peddled cell phones and music for a living (very successfully) and regularly employed business practices that some compared to those previously accused of monopoly in this country.
3. This man that everyone is nearly worshipping saw to it that ALL OF HIS COMPANY'S PRODUCTS were manufactured, assembled, and packaged in other countries. If he had opened an Apple plant and put 7000 U.S. citizens to work then I might be willing to think highly of him.
4. It's tough to accuse a consumer of paying too much for ANY shiny toy if you're hanging out in THIS forum.  [wink]
3. I am both an Apple fanatic/enthusiast and only use Microsoft products when I need it for other proprietary software to function (My Cabinetware) so I am not Apple bashing.
4. I do hope that Apple can successfully carry on without him, but...
5. He's just some dude. His name rarely came up until he died, and in my opinion, Rembrandt he ain't.

I'm sure that most would consider my opinion to be uninformed and presumptuous, and they're probably right, but I am not going to mourn for deceased Billionaires that would actively have me thrown out of their gated communities during their lifetimes, lol. Most people watch too much T.V.

 

[tiralie]

I don't mean to come off as a cold fish, but a couple of thoughts from my poor little brain...

You might enjoy reading this a-tough-obituary-to-write

Most people watch too much T.V.

True, well I do at least but I am not sure how this relates/context to your comments.
Tim

 

[CutsTwice]

Great article Tim, that's what I was driving at.

The T.V. remark was a little off base, and I apologize. My wife and I make it a point to avoid any type of entertainment with commercials or news programs, and this sort of sensationalism is exactly why. I should employ my usual practice of keeping such comments to myself. No offense meant to anyone.

 

[justinmcf]

I just finished reading the book about Steve Jobs and really enjoyed it.
I am glad I never had to work for him.
He would have been a tosser to work for!
But he did get results.

From what I understand. He was not an inventor.
He was a refiner and a very smart business man. He also had a good eye for attention to detail.
He would have been a good chippy!

I highly recommend the book which I downloaded from itunes.
It explains a lot of history regarding Apple 1 & 2 and the birth of the ipod.

It will be very interesting to see what Apple do with the ipad 3.0 and I wonder if they will release a TV as is rumoured.....

 

[richard.selwyn]

their gated communities during their lifetimes, lol.

Don't have any opinion about all these opinions, but:
Just a minor point, but he lived on a regular street and if his bio is to be believed used to leave the back door open.

 

[tiralie]

Great article Tim, that's what I was driving at.

The T.V. remark was a little off base, and I apologize. My wife and I make it a point to avoid any type of entertainment with commercials or news programs, and this sort of sensationalism is exactly why. I should employ my usual practice of keeping such comments to myself. No offense meant to anyone.

No offense taken, was just trying to understand the context.
Thanks for the clarification.
I don't like news programs either and never watch the news - '60 minutes' is at the top of my list of sensationalized news programs.
I PVR anything I want watch and avoid the ads.
Tim

 

[NoBreyner]

Let's keep in mind the Foxconn plant in China that makes all of the Apple products.  Their employees have a high suicide rate with insanely low pay, extremely long hours with no breaks.  You live on premises so you don't get to see your family.  The suicides were on the job (when is there any down time?) deaths. 

All of this is from the US's driving business to find manufacturing alternatives overseas finding low-balled bids out of China who darn near enslaves their workers (read workers not employees).  It's Apples management that sought out cheap manufacturing sites, and Steve Jobs being who he is might have hand picked Foxconn for the job. 

 

[JeromeM]

Let's keep in mind the Foxconn plant in China that makes all of the Apple products.  Their employees have a high suicide rate with insanely low pay, extremely long hours with no breaks.  You live on premises so you don't get to see your family.  The suicides were on the job (when is there any down time?) deaths. 

Humm. And your supporting data is?
You have three data points.
The rate of suicide at Foxconn.
The pay at Foxconn.
The workers stay on site

What is missing is the suicide rate at other Chinese plants in the same or similar areas (I don't have the data but have heard that suicide at Chinese plants and in China in general is higher than at Foxconn)
The rate of pay in similar factories (hint Foxconn is not lower)
With workers staying on site so they don't get to see their family's you are missing the point that this is not a requirement and that most workers are not local their homes are hundreds or thousands of kilometres away so they couldn't visit on a regular basis.

The manufacturing of product in cheaper locations is pushed by the requirement to maximise profit at all costs and minimise price. Change that first then you can get the jobs back.

 

[andvari]

Interesting test. I came out way down the y axis but in the middle of the x axis. The closest to me was the Dali Llama, however I was more conservative economically and more libertarian.

 

[harry_]

So if all those things are the same across all Chinese plants it makes Foxxcon ok?

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Easy answer -- change the American mindset.  Demand quality first, price second, made in America and be willing to pay for such goods.  No need for import embargos and tariffs.  Just change your attitude.

Wow, I just saw pigs flying!

 

[tbellemare]

I was in the freezer to get something to thaw out for tomorrow... I saw Satan in the ice.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I was in the freezer to get something to thaw out for tomorrow... I saw Satan in the ice.

Tom

Did he wave?

 

[NoBreyner]

"The manufacturing of product in cheaper locations is pushed by the requirement to maximise profit at all costs and minimise price. Change that first then you can get the jobs back."

Not going to happen literally or in your case, ironically.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Well, not to get anybody depressed or so, but pretty soon the jobs simply won't exist anymore. The company, Foxconn talked about here is going to replace a large part of it's 1,2 million workforce by robots the next 3 years. So even the Chinese workers will be out of a job.

http://www.economist.com/node/21525432

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/us-foxconn-robots-idUSTRE77016B20110801

I saw this comming 25 years ago, with technology advancing as it does, it's only natural. What I don't get is why China can do this, but not America, which is supposed to be richest country of the world. Or Europe for that matter.

 

[andvari]

Well, not to get anybody depressed or so, but pretty soon the jobs simply won't exist anymore. The company, Foxconn talked about here is going to replace a large part of it's 1,2 million workforce by robots the next 3 years. So even the Chinese workers will be out of a job.

http://www.economist.com/node/21525432

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/us-foxconn-robots-idUSTRE77016B20110801

I saw this comming 25 years ago, with technology advancing as it does, it's only natural. What I don't get is why China can do this, but not America, which is supposed to be richest country of the world. Or Europe for that matter.

So much of what is reported in the press is done so without real research. Consumer goods are predominately manufactured in China, so when you go to the mall made in China is what you see.

But guess what... the US is still the largest manufacturing country in the world. The reason is that the high end stuff hasn't moved off shore - airliners, pharmaceuticals, microprocessors, heavy earth movers, and so on are still made here. The skills and infrastructure to do it don't exist in China.

The stunning thing is that the manufacturing employment needed to do that is only 9% of the population, because of automation. It's the same trend that allows the production of all the food we need and more with 5% of the population, again using heavy automation.

http://www.nam.org/Statistics-And-Data/Facts-About-Manufacturing/Landing.aspx

The real question is where is society headed when you only need 15% or so of the population to supply all it's material needs. What is the other 85% going to do?