Still don't get the Festool, please help.

[Bob Marino]

 
You have gotten some good answers here and I am sure there will be more to follow, but as a dealer I can tell you the rate of returns from customers is very, very low, probably lower than most any tool manufacture's rate.

  Bob

 

[Eli]

I started to build a shop from scratch in Australia, having sold all my US voltage tools. So I was in a position to start fresh. I wasn't thinking system at all when I decided to get the rail and 55 first. I'd used it, it was fast and accurate, I could break down sheets on site. I got sucked into buying every other thing when I started to think about my other choices. I had a list of tools that I was replacing, all did the job quite well for considerably less money. In pretty much every argument, Festool won, not least of all because working in other people's homes that they had to live in and eat out of every day, at least (at least) an hour of time is wasted every day cleaning up. I'm lazy. I hate cleaning up.

Once I'd decided to buy the CT22, every other tool choice was a pleasure to make, knowing that every one meant that I could spend more time working without being behind a broom as much. It was the first tool my dad taught me how to work, and it's the first one my son learned how to work, but I'm teaching him the value of quality. These tools waste less time, and if you have to buy a tool only once, they aren't the most expensive.

They hold their resale value quite well, think about that the next time a guy chisels you at a yard sale for a perfectly good sawzall or skilsaw. If you go through a bunch of posts, you'll see guy after guy who buys one Festool, and then sells all his other tools to finance the purchase of more. You just don't realize how much time other tools are costing you until you don't have to work around their limitations anymore. The support and innovation is excellent. How many Dewalt forums are there outside the manufacturer's? How many tools have you ever bought do you use for a month and then discover one day there's yet another feature built in that makes life easier. They are more expensive because they run better and more accurately. A smaller margin of error means your work can be better, means that you can charge more and do more in less time. More time has been spent developing them, and that's reflected in the cost. Amortizing that cost over the long term is easy if you like to work with good tools that aren't frustrating to use.

"More time mean more pizness, more pizness mean more opium"
"Wait, so opium is time?"
-Volunteers-

 

[Eli]

PS- try and find a used model of the Festool saw you're thinking about buying, then try and find a used model of the saw you'd buy for less, even if it's the most expensive one otherwise. Then ask yourself why.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

What Bob says is completely factual.  An extremely low rate of returns.  Take advantage of the 30-day money back guarantee.  How can you go wrong?  Buy it, try it... (we all know you will keep it) but you have the option to return it for a complete refund.  Virtually zero risk.

Shane

 

[Dan Clark]

PS- try and find a used model of the Festool saw you're thinking about buying, then try and find a used model of the saw you'd buy for less, even if it's the most expensive one otherwise. Then ask yourself why.

Actually, they are available, but you won't save much money.  Here's a RS400 that was for sale:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1216.0.  The NEW RTS400 sells for $190.   The asking price for this old-model, used RS400 was $150 - more than 75% of the new price.   It sold in three days.

Try that with a Dewalt.

Dan.

 

[The Dude]

Dude!  I will try to make this brief, however, in the ramblings of a true Festool Junkie, that may be hard to do.  You are kind of speaking to the Rah Rah Festool bunch for a reason.  Every person here has validated the usefulness of the TS 55 EQ saw.  I must admit there is learning curve to all Festool products and what they can do.  WHAT OTHER BRAND OF TOOL HAS THIS SIZE OF A FORUM TO DISCUSS THEIR TOOL LINE; GOOD AND BAD (more good however).  Bob and Shane have made valuable points as to the confidence that Festool puts in their product; 1+2 Warranty, and more importantly the 30 day Money back!

Let's bullet this post shall we.

1.  You said it yourself, you are still here and considering the saw.  With that said, you know it is the right thing to do.
2.  Testimonials from some of the finest woodworkers in the world.
3.  In my brick and mortar, if I have 20 minutes to spend with an interested individual that wants to perform superior work in half the time, I will sell the saw.  Showing them tapered legs without a jig for the table saw, or without a jointer, scribing cabinets, installing borders in a floor after the field has been laid, Compounded corners on a 12" crown molding.  Cutting out a window in a door by marking 4 points on the door, cutting a triangle out of a sheet of plywood without any over cut....the list is endless.
5. Sizing plywood on a floor with an 1/8" piece of cardboard underneath the work piece with absolutely no fear of hitting the concrete.
6.  Gluing up a large blank for the poker table and cutting the angles for the octagon by just drawing lines on the blank; slapping an 800 rail down and cutting the line with dead on precision. 
7.  Dust control...goes without saying.
8.  Killer accessories that enable many different applications.  Including but not limited to specific blades for specific applications.
9.  Cross-Cut 8/4 maple with no burn
10. Festool is a damn sexy looking too.

There are more, but as I stated, I will try to be brief.

Dude, Buy the saw, you won't be sorry...IT'S Gaurhonteed!  Achtung Dude!  You can't afford not to buy it!

Timmy C

 

[Dan Clark]

Two final points...

When you buy some tools, there's lots of advertising that tells you how smart you are for buying that tool.  If you buy Festool, you'll find lots of people here who will tell you that you made a smart decision in buying Festool.  To me, that means diddly... 

Every time I pick up one of my Festools and feel the quality, or solve a difficult problem with some odd combination of my Festools, or cut wood for a couple of hours with virtually no sawdust, the TOOLS tell me that I made a very smart decision.

Also, I disagree with Timmy.  I don't think the Festool tools are sexy looking.  I find them to be lean, purpose-built tools.  Using high-quality weapons an example...

Here are some incredibly lovely shotguns.  The workmanship is supurb!  Lovely beasts.  Expect to pay at least $8-10,000 for one.  OTOH, here is a page about some very nice military sniper rifles.  Extremely high quality?  Absolutely!  Lovely?  Are you nuts?  : Expect to pay $7-$8000 for one.  The first group of guns are beautiful works of art while the second are purpose-built.  The first might be nice for your mantle, but which do you want to take to the battlefield and depend on to save your hide? 

For many of us, tools are like these guns.  Some people like pretty tools that sit on the shelf to be admired and to show their friends.  For other people like me, tools are to be taken on the metaphorical battlefield.  They solve my problems, and save me time and grief.  IMO, Festool tools fit in the second category - they work for a living. 

Below is my Festool "gun" in its holster.  See all the scrapes, dings, and dirt?  Ya think it sits on the shelf and looks pretty?!?

Dan.

 

[The Dude]

Two final points...

When you buy some tools, there's lots of advertising that tells you how smart you are for buying that tool.  If you buy Festool, you'll find lots of people here who will tell you that you made a smart decision in buying Festool.  To me, that means diddly... 

Every time I pick up one of my Festools and feel the quality, or solve a difficult problem with some odd combination of my Festools, or cut wood for a couple of hours with virtually no sawdust, the TOOLS tell me that I made a very smart decision.

Also, I disagree with Timmy.  I don't think the Festool tools are sexy looking.  I find them to be lean, purpose-built tools.  Using high-quality weapons an example...

Here are some incredibly lovely shotguns.  The workmanship is supurb!  Lovely beasts.  Expect to pay at least $8-10,000 for one.  OTOH, here is a page about some very nice military sniper rifles.  Extremely high quality?  Absolutely!  Lovely?  Are you nuts?  : Expect to pay $7-$8000 for one.  The first group of guns are beautiful works of art while the second are purpose-built.  The first might be nice for your mantle, but which do you want to take to the battlefield and depend on to save your hide? 

For many of us, tools are like these guns.  Some people like pretty tools that sit on the shelf to be admired and to show their friends.  For other people like me, tools are to be taken on the metaphorical battlefield.  They solve my problems, and save me time and grief.  IMO, Festool tools fit in the second category - they work for a living. 

Below is my Festool "gun" in its holster.  See all the scrapes, dings, and dirt?  Ya think it sits on the shelf and looks pretty?!?

Dan.

Well, my wife thinks they are sexy looking tools.  She hasn't said it yet, but words like "brushless", "torque settings", "variable speed", and "smart charger", "interchangeable chucks"; Too her they are all part of being sexy....not to mention the favorite phrase "fast fix!" After all, it's the "defense department's opinion" that's really counts.

Timmy C

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Well, my wife thinks they are sexy looking tools.  She hasn't said it yet, but words like "brushless", "torque settings", "variable speed", and "smart charger", "interchangeable chucks"; Too her they are all part of being sexy....not to mention the favorite phrase "fast fix!" After all, it's the "defense department's opinion" that's really counts.

I wonder if this is a common trait among Festool-owner spouses?  Maybe we could get a poll going on this?  Or perhaps we don't want to know all the details.  Things would never be the same around here if we learned that Festool tools are finding their way into members' bedrooms!

Matthew

 

[Joe Jensen]

There are more, but as I stated, I will try to be brief.

Dude, Buy the saw, you won't be sorry...IT'S Gaurhonteed!  Achtung Dude!  You can't afford not to buy it!

Timmy C

Good point, 30 day money back guarentee.  If you don't like it, return it.  The only reason not to do this is that you know deep down inside that once you try one Festool you will have to get many more.

I started with a 1/2 sheet RS2-E and I quickly swapped all by a 5" Porter Cable ROS, and that's only because I rarely used it.  That will be swapped soon for a Festool.  I have a Bosch jig saw that I don't really need to swap as the dust collection is ok.  I'm pretty sure however that if I did switch, the Festool would be better.  Also, I have 5 routers already.  I haven't bought a Festool, but at some point the seduction of using the quide ail with the Router will drive me to buy one of thsoe too..joe

 

[semenza]

Hi,

      I know from my own experience that seeing this saw do more than be great at cutting sheet goods is difficult. I have used the ATF55 for about four years, and have just upgraded to the TS55. Four years ago I bought the saw mostly to cut sheet goods with out a hassle and for the DUST COLLECTION. During that four year period I had always planned on buying a table saw. The longer I own the circular saw the less I care about the table saw. This is my primary cutting tool. I operate a custom  woodworking business. Doing all sorts of truly built to order furniture items. And I don't own a table saw!  I still may get one someday but so far it hasn't been an issue.
    As far as narrow cutting goes - it is highly  doable  with the TS55. I regularly cut edging for shelves, etc.

    Long cuts are no trouble either. Make the guide rail longer and you can cut for miles if you want.

    You can't beat this thing for straight line ripping boards.

    You can resaw lumber up to about 4" (55) or 6" (75)

          If you want to see some of the things that the saw will do besides cut sheet goods - go to www.woodshopdemos.com

      Features that make it better than the other good saws on the market-

                Dust Collection that works

                Riving knife

                Cut quality

                SAFETY

                Incredibly accurate

                Variable speed

                Tool quality

                3 year warranty (just the fact that it is 3 years saysa lot)

                Rip guide  (better design)

                Comes with a guide rail

                              Something that I like to point out to people asking me about the $400 + circular saw that I own is that this is designed for woodworking and finish carpentry, it is not a framing saw. In many ways it is a different tool than a regular circular saw.

        The longer you own and use a Festool tool the more little  (and useful) smart, engineered, details you discover.  The dealer and company support , as well as this forum, is excellent. Buy one, use it, read up on what you can do with it. I am sure that if you don't like it that Festool really will take it back. But I suspect they would end up having to pry it from your hands. 

Seth

               

           

 

[jo041326]

I've build a house and had not enough money for good furniture. Instead of buying cheap one I have bought TS55, MFT1080, CT22, PS300, RO150, C12, OF1400 and Domino. Yes, a lot of money. But even if I am just a hobby woodworker, self learner and a beginner, I did a lot of stuff and all VERY quickly, dust free and I was really enjoying the work.
Every visitor is surprised with the furniture and I have a lot of orders from my friends. So my Festool is nearly paid.
Joseph

 

[The Dude]

Well, my wife thinks they are sexy looking tools.  She hasn't said it yet, but words like "brushless", "torque settings", "variable speed", and "smart charger", "interchangeable chucks"; Too her they are all part of being sexy....not to mention the favorite phrase "fast fix!" After all, it's the "defense department's opinion" that's really counts.

I can't believe I'm actually writing this, but my wife also thinks the tools are sexy.  I wonder if this is a common trait among Festool-owner spouses?  Maybe we could get a poll going on this?  Or perhaps we don't want to know all the details.  Things would never be the same around here if we learned that Festool tools are finding their way into members' bedrooms!

Matthew

Matthew, I am not sure you need a new poll for this one;  Perhaps it can be in placed in the "creative uses" for your Festools???  YOWEEEEEEE

 

[The Dude]

Thank you Mr. Force, This photo is proof that not all Festool Stay Sexy.  Dude, that is one butt ugly Rotex; but I bet it still works like a champ.

Original Post in "Off Topic" by Jim @ Force Machinery Co.. 

Thanks Jim, I really got a charge out of your post (especially looking at that cord.  Don't be standing in water when you are using that Rotex.)

Timmy C

 

[Dave Rudy]

For many of us, tools are like these guns. 

Below is my Festool "gun" in its holster.  See all the scrapes, dings, and dirt?  Ya think it sits on the shelf and looks pretty?!?

Dan.

Now I dont get it -- do you just blow the wood away?  I thought we operated with surgical precision. . .  ;D ;D

 

[Ned]

She hasn't said it yet, but words like "brushless", "torque settings", "variable speed", and "smart charger", "interchangeable chucks"; Too her they are all part of being sexy..

OK, here's a song title..."Do Ya Think I'm Brushless?"

The other terms also beg to be double entendres.

Ned

 

[scoffelt]

I know of one people who only own the saw and rail, they have a Fein vac and they are just fine with it.  Not interest in others at the moment.  So yes, you should try and buy on the saw.  If you are not pleased or think it it too much, then you can return it as Bob says.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

My wife, my daughter and my son all think the Festool machines and Systainers are good looking, but they don't use the term "sexy" in reference to them.

It appears that Dan's tools (at least his C12 drill) are suffering from close encounters of the construction kind,

Dave R.

 

[Toolpig]

TAPERED LEGS??   

I've gotta see how you do this!!

Dude!  I will try to make this brief, however, in the ramblings of a true Festool Junkie, that may be hard to do.  You are kind of speaking to the Rah Rah Festool bunch for a reason.  Every person here has validated the usefulness of the TS 55 EQ saw.  I must admit there is learning curve to all Festool products and what they can do.  WHAT OTHER BRAND OF TOOL HAS THIS SIZE OF A FORUM TO DISCUSS THEIR TOOL LINE; GOOD AND BAD (more good however).  Bob and Shane have made valuable points as to the confidence that Festool puts in their product; 1+2 Warranty, and more importantly the 30 day Money back!

Let's bullet this post shall we.

1.  You said it yourself, you are still here and considering the saw.  With that said, you know it is the right thing to do.
2.  Testimonials from some of the finest woodworkers in the world.
3.  In my brick and mortar, if I have 20 minutes to spend with an interested individual that wants to perform superior work in half the time, I will sell the saw.  Showing them tapered legs without a jig for the table saw, or without a jointer, scribing cabinets, installing borders in a floor after the field has been laid, Compounded corners on a 12" crown molding.  Cutting out a window in a door by marking 4 points on the door, cutting a triangle out of a sheet of plywood without any over cut....the list is endless.
5. Sizing plywood on a floor with an 1/8" piece of cardboard underneath the work piece with absolutely no fear of hitting the concrete.
6.  Gluing up a large blank for the poker table and cutting the angles for the octagon by just drawing lines on the blank; slapping an 800 rail down and cutting the line with dead on precision. 
7.  Dust control...goes without saying.
8.  Killer accessories that enable many different applications.  Including but not limited to specific blades for specific applications.
9.  Cross-Cut 8/4 maple with no burn
10. Festool is a damn sexy looking too.

There are more, but as I stated, I will try to be brief.

Dude, Buy the saw, you won't be sorry...IT'S Gaurhonteed!  Achtung Dude!  You can't afford not to buy it!

Timmy C

 

[Dan Lyke]

TAPERED LEGS??   

I've gotta see how you do this!!

It ain't heirloom furniture or anything, but the legs on my cord organizer were tapered with the TS 55. Just laid 'em under the rail on my MFT at an angle, made sure the blade came up to speed before I started cutting, and cut slowly. No problems. Try to cut before the blade comes up speed and it'll kick, but a little patience and it was painless.

[attachimg=1]

I then used the OF 1010 on the rail to round 'em.

In fact, the only time I had a problem was when I was trying to gang-cut the insets on the legs for that lower shelf with the router on the rail and one of 'em moved. So I made 5 legs for that table. And learned an important lesson about trying to save time...