Stuff sticking to paint.

[semenza]

OK, so I have just done some basic shelves for a customer.  Their dishes are sticking and pulling the paint off. Paint was some type of Glidden latex, primer + paint style, egg shell finish. Painted a week ago. MDO with SW Multi Purpose primer + two coats of the Glidden.  Customer provided paint so I had to give it a shot. I am thinking that one of the SW paints would be a better choice?

Seth

 

[tjbnwi]

I've had the problem with SWP also. More often with acrylic than latex.

I'm using KA+ colored more than paints for any cabinet work now. The paints just don't seem to be curing.

Tom

 

[semenza]

I've had the problem with SWP also. More often with acrylic than latex.

I'm using KA+ colored more than paints for any cabinet work now. The paints just don't seem to be curing.

Tom

Actually I am not sure at this point if it was latex or acrylic , etc.  But definitely not an oil. I think it was low VOC if that matters.

Seth

 

[tjbnwi]

Low VOC's usually dry to quickly.

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

Seth

Timing is everything with waterbornes/latexes/acrylics, especially when marginal brands like Glidden are involved.

As fast as these products seem to "dry" while you are applying, they can take a good couple of weeks to cure. For example, when we spray, even our preferred product combos, in our shop I require cabinets to sit in induced curing conditions for about a week before I turn them loose upon the world.

Where oil enamels dryed slow and cured fast, wb are the opposite. So we play to those strengths.

If they are not fully cured, they are still soft, and things will stick to them. It is especially an issue in the high humidity levels we have had lately.

Give them some time to cure, hopefully with the customer's cooperation to allow them to be out of service for a bit. Then scuff and redo with Pro Classis or one of my favorites, Cashmere medium lustre. Sample for preferred sheen.

 

[tbellemare]

Thanks for that advice, Scott!

I've had some issues lately myself while using Glidden and I was thinking that it hadn't really cured but just turned into a sheet of rubber.

Tom

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

A "thank you" to Scott for jumping in with his expert advice per my request. Always great to have that type of knowledge available here on the forum.  [not worthy] [thumbs up]

 

[xtrememtnbiker]

Most latex paints take around 30 days for a full cure. Pro classic seems to be better than just about anything else I've used though for cure time.

My Dad accidentally got pro mar 200 once and I sprayed it anyway. That stuff sat for a week and was still tacky to the touch.

Tom has turned me on to KA+ which I sprayed on a set of cabinets I installed last week. That is an amazing product. Full cure in 8-10 hrs. I will recommend that to any client for cabinetry in the future.

 

[semenza]

Seth

Timing is everything with waterbornes/latexes/acrylics, especially when marginal brands like Glidden are involved.

As fast as these products seem to "dry" while you are applying, they can take a good couple of weeks to cure. For example, when we spray, even our preferred product combos, in our shop I require cabinets to sit in induced curing conditions for about a week before I turn them loose upon the world.

Where oil enamels dryed slow and cured fast, wb are the opposite. So we play to those strengths.

If they are not fully cured, they are still soft, and things will stick to them. It is especially an issue in the high humidity levels we have had lately.

Give them some time to cure, hopefully with the customer's cooperation to allow them to be out of service for a bit. Then scuff and redo with Pro Classis or one of my favorites, Cashmere medium lustre. Sample for preferred sheen.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking with the Pro Classics. That's what I have been using lately when buying myself and it has been good. And Yes, high humidity here too.

Oh, there is no doubt I will be redoing them. At least it isn't a lot. Only three 36" shelves. Just want to make sure it doesn't happen on the second go round. 

Seth

 

[junk731]

Seth as noted by others this is a universal problems when dealing with "house paint" of any quality. The sticking issue has been hashed over multiple times on this forum and many others with us all having gone through the aggravation. Several years ago I went to the point of telling customers I refuse to use their product and will only finish with professional products that I know will work. You probably don't have the space or time to store something that needs 30 days to fully cure. Any profit that you were hoping to make on the project will be severely eroded by having to refinish.

John

 

[Wooden Skye]

I'm using KA+ colored more than paints for any cabinet work now. The paints just don't seem to be curing.

Tom

Tom

Excuse my ignorance, but what is KA+?  Do you have a link so I can do further research?

Thanks
Bryan

 

[tjbnwi]

I'm using KA+ colored more than paints for any cabinet work now. The paints just don't seem to be curing.

Tom

Tom

Excuse my ignorance, but what is KA+?  Do you have a link so I can do further research?

Thanks
Bryan

Available in white (tintable) and clear.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=kem+aqua+plus&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Tom

 

[Wooden Skye]

Thank you Tom!

 

[semenza]

OK, so is the KA (+) intended as a "paint" itself or primarily for a clear top coat over paint? I see that it can be tinted. Can it be applied without spraying?

Seth

 

[tjbnwi]

OK, so is the KA (+) intended as a "paint" itself or primarily for a clear top coat over paint? I see that it can be tinted. Can it be applied without spraying?

Seth

I've used the clear as a top coat over raw wood, stain and paint.

The tinted I've used as the finish color with no top coat.

It is a finish not a paint. The chemistry and viscosity are very different. It is much harder than common paints when it cures.

Spray only.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

OK, so is the KA (+) intended as a "paint" itself or primarily for a clear top coat over paint? I see that it can be tinted. Can it be applied without spraying?

Seth

Seth:
I have not brushed KA (+) so I have no experience with it but I have brushed Target Lacquer and it levels better if you thin it with distilled water up to 10%.
Lacquer formulations are designed to be sprayed and to level after atomizated lacquer droplets settle on the substrate. Because brushing generally lays down a heavier coat (recommended by the manufacturer), and the fast drying time, brush strokes are more evident after curing if the lacquer is not thinned.
Tim

 

[semenza]

Right, lacquer = spray  [doh]

How about spraying clear lacquer over paint?  I assume that would need to be after the  long cure time?

Seth

 

[tiralie]

Right, lacquer = spray  [doh]

How about spraying clear lacquer over paint?  I assume that would need to be after the  long cure time?

Seth

It depends on the paint, but generally lacquer is susceptible to UV and yellows which changes the color, so lacquer is not the best choice over "paint". The general rule is not to use a soft or flexible coating under a hard or inflexible coating. I don't like to but if I use any coating over a latex based paint I usually use a polyurethane, but only after a week of curing.
Lacquer is also not as hard wearing as polyurethane but it is much easier to repair. The advantage of lacquer is it is fairly forgiving because of "burn in", bite or molecular adhesion.  A clear lacquer over another lacquer coat can be done after an hour or two depending on the temperature. As Tom noted, just because it's dry doesn't mean it has cured. It still takes a week or longer for the lacquer to cure.
Tim

 

[semenza]

Right, lacquer = spray  [doh]

How about spraying clear lacquer over paint?  I assume that would need to be after the  long cure time?

Seth

It depends on the paint, but generally lacquer is susceptible to UV and yellows which changes the color, so lacquer is not the best choice over "paint". The general rule is not to use a soft or flexible coating under a hard or inflexible coating. I don't like to but if I use any coating over a latex based paint I usually use a polyurethane, but only after a week of curing.
Lacquer is also not as hard wearing as polyurethane but it is much easier to repair. The advantage of lacquer is it is fairly forgiving because of "burn in", bite or molecular adhesion.  A clear lacquer over another lacquer coat can be done after an hour or two depending on the temperature. As Tom noted, just because it's dry doesn't mean it has cured. It still takes a week or longer for the lacquer to cure.
Tim

Yeah, the  yellowing is a problem. I find that polyurethane yellows too. I used CAB (water white?) lacquer once.  Probably will just go with  better paint , better sheen, longer cure time.

Seth

 

[tjbnwi]

KA+ is UV stable and will not yellow over latex or acrylic paint. I've used it over both types of white paint on hands rails. It makes cleaning the hand rails much easier.

Tom