Suggestions for hybrid workbench

[Crazyraceguy]

I keep a selection of silicone mats around the shop, they're great for protecting my cast iron machine surfaces, and serve as a quick cover for the perforated table when handling small screws/parts. I have a pair which have a ribbed/corrugated surface, which are particularly helpful for preventing screws from rolling away.

I tried that. I bought one of those self-healing cutting mats, placed in on the back bench, and promptly covered it up with something. I just couldn't seem to keep it handy enough, without sitting out. So now it is partly covered by a short stack of Sys Organizers.

 

[ear3]

[member=82687]Jlt3b[/member]  I went the hybrid workbench route (1 1/2" maple top) and it was one of the best decisions I made.  Via a benchcrafted leg and wagon vise, along with a hole pattern on top, it takes care of most workpiece holding situations for hand or power tools.  There's a thread on it here here

If you're curious about hand tool cabinet design, there's some details on my own starting here

with further modifications here

 

[Jlt3b]

[member=37411]ear3[/member] : Wow, thanks for your message.  I think that hybrid workbench of yours would work very well for me!  Do you think it is something a complete newbie/noob could accomplish within a reasonable amount of time?  I'm still trying to decide if I should try to build something like your workbench or the ones that people in this message chain have suggested, or whether i'm better off doing something like purchasing the UJK Parf MK2 system and making dogholes in a piece of  plywood or MDF and just using that on a couple of work horses to start.  Or, alternatively, whether to splurge on something like the Festool MFT or the BenchDog Ultra MFT table in order to get up and running for a while before trying to build something more "hybrid" capable.  Choices, choices... haha!

 

[Stone Message]

Hi [member=82687]Jlt3b[/member]

As you are new to the wonderful world of woodworking you will need to buy all sorts of super tools. The MFT/Benchdogs benches are very expensive and your money would be better spent on the basic kit. Take [member=167]neilc[/member] 's advice and build your own. [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] can advise you I am sure.

Peter

 

[cpw]

I have an MFT/3 which I think is great for power tools. The various hold downs/stops/clamps and the grid are great for securing work.  I like that the MW1000 extension clamps right on and that the old systainers or STM1800 can be an extension.  I know many people use the MFT as a track saw cutting station, but in my space with my workflow it has just never worked out for me.  I use a track saw with a TSO square to break down sheet goods away from the MFT or a table saw for the smaller pieces.  The MFT is great for securing pieces when you are Dominoing, routing, or sanding.

When I decided to embark on hand cutting dovetails I found it lacking.  I built a moxon vise that I could clamp to it, but the table is just too wobbly.  I added two pairs of stabilizer bars, and it became acceptable.  If you are primarily into hand tools, I would recommend just building something quick and dirty out of construction lumber to start.  It will be heavy and whacking on it with a pair of chisels or sawing shouldn't flex it at all.

You can get something together for not a lot of money, and find out what you like or don't like about the layout.  I think the one thing that is true of most hobbyist woodworkers is that the thing we build in our shop is our shop.  Once you get experience with something, you'll find what you like and don't like and seek to improve it on the next iteration.

 

[derekcohen]

If you truly want a bench that is suitable for hand tool woodworking, take one of the traditional designs and add MFT-style dog holes and a few other modern touches (eg T track on the table edges for accessories like guide rail support/hinge).  The most important aspect of the hand tool workbench is the heft to stand up to the pounding and planing as well as the vise system to be able to clamp something solidly within seconds of walking up to the bench.  Marc Spagnuolo’s hybrid workbench is a really great starting point, and of course if you choose to utilize the Benchcrafted hardware in that design you’re going to have a heck of a hand tool bench.

This is good advice.

I have both a Roubo workbench dedicated to hand tools ....



... and a MFT dedicated to power tools ...



They are not interchangeable. I can use power tools more easily on the Rouba than hand tools on the MFT - the Rouba is rigid and cannot be pushed around, while the MFT cannot withstand the lateral forces generaled by hand planes.

A hybid bench will only work if biased towards hand tools, and not the other way around. Make it immovable, and as solid as you can.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jlt3b]

This is good advice.

I have both a Roubo workbench dedicated to hand tools ....



... and a MFT dedicated to power tools ...



They are not interchangeable. I can use power tools more easily on the Rouba than hand tools on the MFT - the Rouba is rigid and cannot be pushed around, while the MFT cannot withstand the lateral forces generaled by hand planes.

A hybid bench will only work if biased towards hand tools, and not the other way around. Make it immovable, and as solid as you can.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek and everyone else... Random question here, but what would happen if one simply used the UJK Parf MKII kit to create a desired pattern of 20mm holes on a traditional workbench like yours, allowing it to be used like a traditional workbench (for hand planing, etc) but have the hole layout to make it easier to use Festool tools (track saw, etc)? Is this a bad idea? Would it not work? For example, if I built Rex Krueger's Quick Stack work bench and drill MFT type hole pattern into the top - would it work well? Thanks!

 

[jeffinsgf]

Thanks Derek and everyone else... Random question here, but what would happen if one simply used the UJK Parf MKII kit to create a desired pattern of 20mm holes on a traditional workbench like yours, allowing it to be used like a traditional workbench (for hand planing, etc) but have the hole layout to make it easier to use Festool tools (track saw, etc)? Is this a bad idea? Would it not work? For example, if I built Rex Krueger's Quick Stack work bench and drill MFT type hole pattern into the top - would it work well? Thanks!

The track clamps and several of the other 20mm accessories available can't be used with a table over about 1" in thickness. Even an inch is pushing it with the shorter track clamps.

 

[onocoffee]

Thanks Derek and everyone else... Random question here, but what would happen if one simply used the UJK Parf MKII kit to create a desired pattern of 20mm holes on a traditional workbench like yours, allowing it to be used like a traditional workbench (for hand planing, etc) but have the hole layout to make it easier to use Festool tools (track saw, etc)? Is this a bad idea? Would it not work? For example, if I built Rex Krueger's Quick Stack work bench and drill MFT type hole pattern into the top - would it work well? Thanks!

Quite a long time ago (like 1998), I made a workbench for my garage out of lumber and double 3/4" plywood. In the past year, I cleared out all the junk sitting on it, cleaned it up and made into a more "modern" workbench with 20x96mm dog holes and some other mods. Overall, it's 3'x6' and because it's all 2"x4" and 4"x4" framing with industrial casters, it's quite robust. I've only recently tried hand planing and it seems to do well with that (however, I am very much a novice who hasn't done much planing at all and the 36" surface height to my 5'8" height is perhaps a little high for hand planing).

Jeff is right, when you have a 1.5" thick MFT top, using things like the track clamps is difficult but not impossible (it requires grinding off the nub so you can pull the two pieces apart and slide the bar through the MFT hole from the bottom). Because of this, I don't use track clamps on this workbench. Instead, I use the Festool MFT-HZ 80 and Bessey WNS20-MFT clamps - and even a 3/4" holdfast, which do work well with the thicker top.

I did this bench (and the other setups) with just my eyes, pencil and a ruler, then bored the holes by hand. But, I do think you will have greater precision with the UJK Parf Guide. While I have been able to achieve mostly pretty good alignment, I don't know if I would rely upon my boring to cut precise angles to the edges like you could with the Festool MFT - but this is a factor of my lack of grid precision.

 

[smorgasbord]

what would happen if one simply used the UJK Parf MKII kit to create a desired pattern of 20mm holes on a traditional workbench like yours, allowing it to be used like a traditional workbench (for hand planing, etc) but have the hole layout to make it easier to use Festool tools (track saw, etc)? Is this a bad idea?

The issue might be that many consider MFT-style tops to be sacrificial and replaceable, but traditional benches keep their tops forever so you don't want to be cutting into it like some do with a track saw, for instance.

 

[Jlt3b]

Ah, yes, that makes sense...

 

[derekcohen]

.

Thanks Derek and everyone else... Random question here, but what would happen if one simply used the UJK Parf MKII kit to create a desired pattern of 20mm holes on a traditional workbench like yours, allowing it to be used like a traditional workbench (for hand planing, etc) but have the hole layout to make it easier to use Festool tools (track saw, etc)? Is this a bad idea? Would it not work? For example, if I built Rex Krueger's Quick Stack work bench and drill MFT type hole pattern into the top - would it work well? Thanks!

As others have said, the Festool clamps (such as hold downs) are optimised for a thin top, say 20mm. This will reduce the number of clamps you can use. It is doable, but I would not advise it if you are serious about using hand planes and chopping with chisels. My Roubo has dog holes but they do not dominate as on a MFT. Not only would saw dust and shavings create a mess below, but the better and more heavy duty hold downs used with hand tools have a 3/4" shaft, and this would slop in a 20mm hole.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jlt3b]

.


As others have said, the Festool clamps (such as hold downs) are optimised for a thin top, say 20mm. This will reduce the number of clamps you can use. It is doable, but I would not advise it if you are serious about using hand planes and chopping with chisels. My Roubo has dog holes but they do not dominate as on a MFT. Not only would saw dust and shavings create a mess below, but the better and more heavy duty hold downs used with hand tools have a 3/4" shaft, and this would slop in a 20mm hole.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jlt3b]

Thanks Derek. I greatly appreciate everyone’s input. I’m feeling stuck in a but if a loop of both “analysis paralysis” and “feasibility paralysis”. Without tons of tools or workbench thus far, and without a planer/jointer/table saw to realistically expedite getting material square and true, not sure how to proceed. If I get an MFT style table I can use the track saw and router I got as a gift but can’t really hand plane to true up boards (and it would take me a long time to true up material to build a traditional workbench anyway since I’m new to hand planing). Or maybe I just buy a traditional workbench and don’t worry about having the ability of an mft style table for now even though I was gifted the Festool track saw and router for which an mft table might provide the most flexibility for use). I suppose having options is always a good thing… lol!