Suggestions, recommendations and advice for a Hobbyist
- Thread starter MrAlighieri
- Start date
I'll add my $0.02 here (some of it's repetitive). I'm in a similar position as you, only 4 months down the road give or take. Not enough to give you much real world insight. I also have a similar mindset when it comes to tools, hobbies, etc.
I have a dewalt contractors table saw. I know what can go wrong using a saw, I try to be safe, but at the end of the day, I'd rather minimize the time the table saw and I spend together. I haven't parted with it yet, but my goal is to make do with the track saw, MFT and some aftermarket accessories that make repetitive cuts simpler and more precise. No matter what I do, it won't be as convenient as a table saw, but I think I'll do okay if I force myself to use the table saw as a last alternative. My issue with the sawstop is I'm unwilling to sacrifice garage space for it and I'm concerned about dust in the basement. Right now my portable saw comes out from the basement and gets set up in the driveway or back yard. That's not happening with the sawstop. In your case I would try something similar. Keep the existing table saw and see how you make out with the track saw. Go from there.
Dust extraction - as said, that is the heart of their tools. You don't have to use their "vacuum". A fein could be had for half the price. For some reason round barrel shaped shop vacs irritate me. I think it's because I spent much of my childhood picking up a tipped over craftsman vac with a rigid 5 ft hose on it and it's scared me for life? I digress, that's my problem not yours! I like the form factor of the festool (rectangular and stable so it never tips and stores neatly among boxes, systainers and other stuff in my basement) and the ability to lock systainers right on top and roll the trolley about as needed. I have a number of things in my basement that are mounted on wheels so I can move things around quickly depending on what I need space to do. The CT26 is a nice blend of capacity and size, however many use a midi or mini with a cyclonic collector which traps the bulk of the debris. Your choice on which way to go.
The next star in their line up are their sanders. Eventually you'll find a need for more than one, so buy based on the tasks at hand. Finish sanding, ETS, detail sanding, RO90, heavy restoration work, RO150. I'm not really inclined to look outside of Festool's family here. Most seem to get an RO150 and RO90 I've noticed. I chose the ETS150 (because it's easier to manage and I don't have a need for heavy removal) and RO90 myself.
If you're doing joinery, a domino is really cool. Very few equals to this one. You must have some kind of dust extraction for this. It's almost too cool not to have!
Miter saw - Kapex. I had a chance to fondle one last weekend at ToolNut. I already have a 12" saw so it's a tough pill to swallow for me. I absolutely loved how well everything worked on this saw. Precise, ergonomic, exactly what I expect to find when I pick up german made machinery. My only critique is the stiffness of the miter table (I'd like to put this thing on ball bearings!), but I could live with that. I'll ponder whether I'm willing to trade capacity for precision and unparalleled dust extraction. I'd much prefer to do crown and base cutting against the fence and the kapex will force me to cut flat. To me that's a big deal. I wish I could borrow one and force myself to use it for my next trim project. Unfortunately their 30 day trial just isn't enough for me, unless I really block out a few weekends, which I can't do now.
Jigsaw - when you have a need for one, check out the Bosch saws as well. They are quite nice, though the top of the line are not much cheaper than a Festool. I don't think the dust extraction with the Festool is any better or worse than the bosch.
Drills and impact drivers - I already have a 12V and 18V set from Bosch and Makita. On the 18V system, I have several cordless tools all using that battery system, so I doubt I would switch to Festool. If I was buying from scratch, I'd probably still look at Milwaukee and Makita because of their extensive line of cordless tools. For a hobbiest and homeowner, that versatility is helpful. Ryobi has also released an interesting mix of cordless tools lately. I know, not a name that you want to say out loud in the company of FOGer's, but I think they've become a real alternative to some of the brands carried in box stores. Back to festool, if you're working in tight quarters or cabinets, the CSX is one to consider. Or the larger C12 with their eccentric chuck. That's really cool! Not domino cool, but....
Two things I will leave you with...look at Festools bundle deals. You save 10% off an MFT or extractor when buying another power tool. If you plan your purchases, you can save a bit. I didn't look at all of them to map out the purchases, but then again, when I made that first purchase, I didn't realize where this was going. The tracksaw and extractor combo got me hooked! You've been warned, but I suspect you already know yourself all too well, so you know where this is headed. Finally, if it helps for planning purposes, I usually double the purchase price of a power tool. Invariably the cost of consumables or accessories (neither of which come cheap) will add up. Now I just add that into the budget and hold off until I can get the tool with everything I want or need with it, otherwise I feel like a kid at xmas without batteries for his toys! Sometimes double isn't enough though. I got a 1400 router, now I want (need?) a CMS table. A set. That's gonna hurt. Only once. It's only money.
Enjoy and Welcome to the FOG!
I have a dewalt contractors table saw. I know what can go wrong using a saw, I try to be safe, but at the end of the day, I'd rather minimize the time the table saw and I spend together. I haven't parted with it yet, but my goal is to make do with the track saw, MFT and some aftermarket accessories that make repetitive cuts simpler and more precise. No matter what I do, it won't be as convenient as a table saw, but I think I'll do okay if I force myself to use the table saw as a last alternative. My issue with the sawstop is I'm unwilling to sacrifice garage space for it and I'm concerned about dust in the basement. Right now my portable saw comes out from the basement and gets set up in the driveway or back yard. That's not happening with the sawstop. In your case I would try something similar. Keep the existing table saw and see how you make out with the track saw. Go from there.
Dust extraction - as said, that is the heart of their tools. You don't have to use their "vacuum". A fein could be had for half the price. For some reason round barrel shaped shop vacs irritate me. I think it's because I spent much of my childhood picking up a tipped over craftsman vac with a rigid 5 ft hose on it and it's scared me for life? I digress, that's my problem not yours! I like the form factor of the festool (rectangular and stable so it never tips and stores neatly among boxes, systainers and other stuff in my basement) and the ability to lock systainers right on top and roll the trolley about as needed. I have a number of things in my basement that are mounted on wheels so I can move things around quickly depending on what I need space to do. The CT26 is a nice blend of capacity and size, however many use a midi or mini with a cyclonic collector which traps the bulk of the debris. Your choice on which way to go.
The next star in their line up are their sanders. Eventually you'll find a need for more than one, so buy based on the tasks at hand. Finish sanding, ETS, detail sanding, RO90, heavy restoration work, RO150. I'm not really inclined to look outside of Festool's family here. Most seem to get an RO150 and RO90 I've noticed. I chose the ETS150 (because it's easier to manage and I don't have a need for heavy removal) and RO90 myself.
If you're doing joinery, a domino is really cool. Very few equals to this one. You must have some kind of dust extraction for this. It's almost too cool not to have!
Miter saw - Kapex. I had a chance to fondle one last weekend at ToolNut. I already have a 12" saw so it's a tough pill to swallow for me. I absolutely loved how well everything worked on this saw. Precise, ergonomic, exactly what I expect to find when I pick up german made machinery. My only critique is the stiffness of the miter table (I'd like to put this thing on ball bearings!), but I could live with that. I'll ponder whether I'm willing to trade capacity for precision and unparalleled dust extraction. I'd much prefer to do crown and base cutting against the fence and the kapex will force me to cut flat. To me that's a big deal. I wish I could borrow one and force myself to use it for my next trim project. Unfortunately their 30 day trial just isn't enough for me, unless I really block out a few weekends, which I can't do now.
Jigsaw - when you have a need for one, check out the Bosch saws as well. They are quite nice, though the top of the line are not much cheaper than a Festool. I don't think the dust extraction with the Festool is any better or worse than the bosch.
Drills and impact drivers - I already have a 12V and 18V set from Bosch and Makita. On the 18V system, I have several cordless tools all using that battery system, so I doubt I would switch to Festool. If I was buying from scratch, I'd probably still look at Milwaukee and Makita because of their extensive line of cordless tools. For a hobbiest and homeowner, that versatility is helpful. Ryobi has also released an interesting mix of cordless tools lately. I know, not a name that you want to say out loud in the company of FOGer's, but I think they've become a real alternative to some of the brands carried in box stores. Back to festool, if you're working in tight quarters or cabinets, the CSX is one to consider. Or the larger C12 with their eccentric chuck. That's really cool! Not domino cool, but....
Two things I will leave you with...look at Festools bundle deals. You save 10% off an MFT or extractor when buying another power tool. If you plan your purchases, you can save a bit. I didn't look at all of them to map out the purchases, but then again, when I made that first purchase, I didn't realize where this was going.
The tracksaw and extractor combo got me hooked! You've been warned, but I suspect you already know yourself all too well, so you know where this is headed. Finally, if it helps for planning purposes, I usually double the purchase price of a power tool. Invariably the cost of consumables or accessories (neither of which come cheap) will add up. Now I just add that into the budget and hold off until I can get the tool with everything I want or need with it, otherwise I feel like a kid at xmas without batteries for his toys! Sometimes double isn't enough though. I got a 1400 router, now I want (need?) a CMS table. A set. That's gonna hurt. Only once. It's only money. Enjoy and Welcome to the FOG!
pugilato
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2011
- Messages
- 579
A table saw is mighty handy to have, and if you can swing it, get one. I use it mostly to rip narrow pieces to width, which when making furniture is often necessary. You can do it with a track saw, but with some limitations. I have a Bosch (the kind they sell at Lowes) and it has a gravity stand, which allows me to move it out of the way. The are in the $500 and are more than adequate to most tasks. When I get my workshop, it will be permanently in place.
The table saw is probably the most dangerous piece of equipment in your workshop, so learn about it and treat it with extreme care. Norm Abrams has a couple of New Yankee Workshop videos on it that can probably be found in you tube.
The table saw is probably the most dangerous piece of equipment in your workshop, so learn about it and treat it with extreme care. Norm Abrams has a couple of New Yankee Workshop videos on it that can probably be found in you tube.
pinkiewerewolf
Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1
Hi to everyone. My name is John and I'm new here but not to woodworking or carpentry.
I just bought my first Festool products, TS75 w/75" rail and a 108" rail. I'm looking at the 1400 Router very seriously right now for its use with the guide rails. I'd like to thank you all for giving me advice while I was a lurker/guest.
I'd like to throw another wrinkle into your woodworking hobby thread, a bandsaw over a table saw. Especially for joint making, resawing, pattern cutting and safety over the table saw.
I have three shopsmiths in various configurations and a MiniMax MM16 bandsaw. One SS is a 520 with the Jointech SawTrain for precision cutting/routing. Most will tell you that the table saw is Shopsmith's weakest tool. I disagree, with the table extensions and rock solid fence, the 520 handles sheet goods amazingly well, when I have help handling the sheets. I think this is where the track saw really comes into its own, the safety and accuracy in not just cutting down the sheet goods for the table saw but in cutting ready-to-use material. Right now, I'm beginning the "cheater's version of Christopher Schwarz' traditional tool chest and customizing it for my GF's art supplies. The TS75 has been amazing. The TS55 would be equally amazing here, I'd not argue one over the other. I got the TS75 because I tend to build with thick hardwood. I'm also building Paul Sellers' work bench right now, and remodeling the house, and, etc...
I consider myself to be a hybrid woodworker. I use power and hand tools.
My hindsight, after years of cobbling together hobbyist woodworking tools would be:
Dust extraction/vacuum unless you want to dedicate yourself to hand tools. (In which case we wouldn't be here, eh?) I already had a Fein... don't throw tomatoes please.
TS55/75 with appropriate guide rails.
Table saw or bandsaw, I'd lean toward a bandsaw.
at least a 8" jointer. I'm going for a 12" soon. I jointed my workbench by hand, its time for a bigger jointer.
Router. Since you are thinking of the big picture and utilizing the system, I'd go with Festool here to use them with the dust extraction and the guide rails, along with the other accessories.
Work bench or MFT or both. ;D I really want the MFT.
Sanders. I have several and yes that includes a block for Armstrong's method. [laughing] I also use scrapers and hand planes, so I don't sand too much, just enough to help the finish.
Miter saw. I have a Makita 10" slider and a vintage Goodell Pratt 30" X 6" miter box, the Kapex would be incredible. (oh, and a shooting board!)
If you like gathering woodworking and Festool information, I would highly recommend The Wood Whisper's web site. and the audio blog he does with two other woodworkers called Wood Talk.
You'll find your style and system as time passes.
P.S. I hate making one-time-use Jigs... Hate it. I think this is another reason Festool appeals to me, along with using hand tools. I know that there is a large number of woodworkers that think jig making is the best part of woodworking. Different strokes.
Have fun and I hope I didn't ramble too much.
John aka pinkie
I just bought my first Festool products, TS75 w/75" rail and a 108" rail. I'm looking at the 1400 Router very seriously right now for its use with the guide rails. I'd like to thank you all for giving me advice while I was a lurker/guest.
I'd like to throw another wrinkle into your woodworking hobby thread, a bandsaw over a table saw. Especially for joint making, resawing, pattern cutting and safety over the table saw.
I have three shopsmiths in various configurations and a MiniMax MM16 bandsaw. One SS is a 520 with the Jointech SawTrain for precision cutting/routing. Most will tell you that the table saw is Shopsmith's weakest tool. I disagree, with the table extensions and rock solid fence, the 520 handles sheet goods amazingly well, when I have help handling the sheets. I think this is where the track saw really comes into its own, the safety and accuracy in not just cutting down the sheet goods for the table saw but in cutting ready-to-use material. Right now, I'm beginning the "cheater's version of Christopher Schwarz' traditional tool chest and customizing it for my GF's art supplies. The TS75 has been amazing. The TS55 would be equally amazing here, I'd not argue one over the other. I got the TS75 because I tend to build with thick hardwood. I'm also building Paul Sellers' work bench right now, and remodeling the house, and, etc...
I consider myself to be a hybrid woodworker. I use power and hand tools.
My hindsight, after years of cobbling together hobbyist woodworking tools would be:
Dust extraction/vacuum unless you want to dedicate yourself to hand tools. (In which case we wouldn't be here, eh?) I already had a Fein... don't throw tomatoes please.
TS55/75 with appropriate guide rails.
Table saw or bandsaw, I'd lean toward a bandsaw.
at least a 8" jointer. I'm going for a 12" soon. I jointed my workbench by hand, its time for a bigger jointer.
Router. Since you are thinking of the big picture and utilizing the system, I'd go with Festool here to use them with the dust extraction and the guide rails, along with the other accessories.
Work bench or MFT or both. ;D I really want the MFT.
Sanders. I have several and yes that includes a block for Armstrong's method. [laughing] I also use scrapers and hand planes, so I don't sand too much, just enough to help the finish.
Miter saw. I have a Makita 10" slider and a vintage Goodell Pratt 30" X 6" miter box, the Kapex would be incredible. (oh, and a shooting board!)
If you like gathering woodworking and Festool information, I would highly recommend The Wood Whisper's web site. and the audio blog he does with two other woodworkers called Wood Talk.
You'll find your style and system as time passes.
P.S. I hate making one-time-use Jigs... Hate it. I think this is another reason Festool appeals to me, along with using hand tools. I know that there is a large number of woodworkers that think jig making is the best part of woodworking. Different strokes.
Have fun and I hope I didn't ramble too much.
John aka pinkie
Birdhunter
Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2012
- Messages
- 4,144
You have received some good answers.
I'm a retired CIO from Fortune 50 companies and have been doing woodworking for over 40 years. I just finished replacing most of my old power tools.
The old Unisaw was replaced with a Sawstop Industiral model. To me, a solid table saw is the cornerstone of my shop. It's capable of doing high precision cuts that are necessary for my projects.
I replaced my jointer and planer with big Powermatic helical units.
All my drills, routers, sanders, circular saws, vacs, and compound miter saw were replaced with Festool.
My work bench was replaced with a dual MFT setup that I modified to mount a large vise.
The Festool products are worth, to me, every cent.
I'm a retired CIO from Fortune 50 companies and have been doing woodworking for over 40 years. I just finished replacing most of my old power tools.
The old Unisaw was replaced with a Sawstop Industiral model. To me, a solid table saw is the cornerstone of my shop. It's capable of doing high precision cuts that are necessary for my projects.
I replaced my jointer and planer with big Powermatic helical units.
All my drills, routers, sanders, circular saws, vacs, and compound miter saw were replaced with Festool.
My work bench was replaced with a dual MFT setup that I modified to mount a large vise.
The Festool products are worth, to me, every cent.
UncleJoe
Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Messages
- 154
I come from the IT world. I make my living configuring Cisco Routers, Switches and Firewalls and tweaking Active Directory. After years of knocking around as a wood working hobbyist I decided that if I was going to keep doing this I had to get better. The decision to improve my skills and make better projects took me down a long and expensive road until I found Festool. After my first purchase of the track saw I noticed a profound improvement in the quality of my work. Soon I purchased a lot of Festool products. Now I can put my cabinets up against anyone's. The quality is there because the tools allow me to work safe and accurately.
If I was starting over I could have saved a bunch of money by not purchasing some of the inferior tools and just going straight to Festool. If you have decided that woodworking is going to be a life time hobby for you then just start buying only the best tools. For me that is Festool and a few Bosch items and good clamps, a Kreg Pocket Hole system is also handy. I also have a Incra routing table and some great woodpeckers measurement and layout tools.
I recommend the following:
Track saw. ( I have built many cabinets and projects over the past 2 years and not touched my table saw at all) As an IT guy the thought of possibly losing a finger in a table saw is not only expensive but can be a career ender for for guys like us. I am an independent consultant and after a bad motorcycle accident that involved a long hospital stay you take things like accidents that can affect your livelihood differently.
Routers
MFT. I love mine.
Drills. I use bosch and love them.
Sanders.
Jigsaw.
With this assortment you will be able to fix most anything and build more than you can imagine.
Think of this as an investment. The time I spend in my 26x24 shop is therapy.
If I was starting over I could have saved a bunch of money by not purchasing some of the inferior tools and just going straight to Festool. If you have decided that woodworking is going to be a life time hobby for you then just start buying only the best tools. For me that is Festool and a few Bosch items and good clamps, a Kreg Pocket Hole system is also handy. I also have a Incra routing table and some great woodpeckers measurement and layout tools.
I recommend the following:
Track saw. ( I have built many cabinets and projects over the past 2 years and not touched my table saw at all) As an IT guy the thought of possibly losing a finger in a table saw is not only expensive but can be a career ender for for guys like us. I am an independent consultant and after a bad motorcycle accident that involved a long hospital stay you take things like accidents that can affect your livelihood differently.
Routers
MFT. I love mine.
Drills. I use bosch and love them.
Sanders.
Jigsaw.
With this assortment you will be able to fix most anything and build more than you can imagine.
Think of this as an investment. The time I spend in my 26x24 shop is therapy.
Len Coleman
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 87
Can we rename this thread "festools for IT Guys?" I manage the IP infrastructure ( cisco/Juniper) for one of your favorite telcos ( think of mother). I have a similiar story to the other IT guys, hobby renovations etc and got tired of using crappy tools. I don't often post anything and never advice as I am still learning, but here goes.
1) read this forum often, the suggestions from the pros is invaluable and you will always get a lot of responses.
2) use your tools often even if you have nothing in mind. As a hobbyist we often get caught uo in our day jobs and can put the tools away for a while, I think of woodworking like anything else, you have to keeo doing it or you will slide back a bit.
3) get good measuring tools. My personal favorite are the story sticks from woodpeckers, I use metric. I don't have to remember or write down the measurement or guess what my eyes are telling me.
4) I have a lot of festool, but most used are; TS55and MFT 1080 .Sanders I still like my ETS125 best followed by the RO90, the RO125 is used least. I have all three router and like the 1010 the best, the 1400 is stuck in the CMS and the 2200 great for bigger tasks. Domino and CSX used a lot.
Len
1) read this forum often, the suggestions from the pros is invaluable and you will always get a lot of responses.
2) use your tools often even if you have nothing in mind. As a hobbyist we often get caught uo in our day jobs and can put the tools away for a while, I think of woodworking like anything else, you have to keeo doing it or you will slide back a bit.
3) get good measuring tools. My personal favorite are the story sticks from woodpeckers, I use metric. I don't have to remember or write down the measurement or guess what my eyes are telling me.
4) I have a lot of festool, but most used are; TS55and MFT 1080 .Sanders I still like my ETS125 best followed by the RO90, the RO125 is used least. I have all three router and like the 1010 the best, the 1400 is stuck in the CMS and the 2200 great for bigger tasks. Domino and CSX used a lot.
Len
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