Suggestions, recommendations and advice for a Hobbyist

[MrAlighieri]

Hello All,

I have come here looking for advice and recommendations from those that know.  A little background so everyone can have a frame of reference for the input.  I am not a carpenter by trade.  I work in IT.  However I do work a lot around my (and other peoples) house.  I have a shop of hand-me-down and used tools from my mechanic father.  He bought the best he could afford at the time, but often the quality wasn't exceptional.  I am looking to replace much of my shop with quality tools that will last my lifetime.  With that being said, I love the idea of a systemized approach to tools (IT guys love systems).  The systainer system is what brought me to Festools in the first place, now I am considering buying into the tools too.  However, for a non-contractor they are expensive and I am unsure which tool to start with.  So I have come to ask, if you were to outfit a hobby shop by priority which tools in order (and why) would you buy from Festools vs other makers.

I look forward to the discussion.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[peter halle]

Welcome to the FOG!

In order for our wide variety of members to give you advice - what sort of projects do you do, and what do you have on the horizon?  If you are working on a room, do you want to be able to set up in the room, or will you be working out of a dedicated "shop" space?  If "space", how big is it?

Just trying to preempt questions I see coming.

Peter

 

[fidelfs]

Welcome!

It is funny, many IT people has a woodworker as hobby.
I am an IT Consultant and I am also have a hobbyist shop.  Festool is a great brand, they excel in some tools, and they are ok in others.

I also try to buy quality that will last, as a hobby you need to be aware that when you buy a tool from the system, it is not a tool with all the functionality.  You will have to buy add-ons and that increase the price.

i.e. the Rotex a great and amazing sander, I had to buy another pad (hard one) so I can sand without risking to not have a flat surface.  That does't make it less of a machine, it is just how Festool market the tools. 

I started with a saw, vacuum and the table (MFT).  I wouldn't buy the MFT after all I know today.  IT makes more sense to make your own, that will vary from people to people.  I know some you cannot take their MFT from them not even when they are dead!. For me it is too small, not sturdy enough and hard to keep it square.

After that I followed with sanders, you will need a lot of them for different tasks.  Routers were next and the dominoes.  The festool sand paper is great and it is more expensive, but it last longer so it balanced out.

I have discovered other brands that are better than festool and they fit my needs better and  I am switching some tools, not all of them.  Festool has a great resale value.

Research and Research and you will find what will fit your needs better.

 

[Paul G]

Welcome to FOG! I'm in a similar boat as you, earn my living in other ways and work on my house and a rental reno as well as other projects. For me it was the basics, cutting, joining and sanding, and the track saw, domino and RO90 have worked fabulous for me. If I didn't already have 5 & 6" sanders I'd probably also have a RO150 but the RO90 has added great utility. Same with routers and miter saw, my others are getting the job done adequately but a 2200 and Kapex would be great improvements. I also invested in guide rails going up to the 118" version allowing me to do a full diagonal cut on a 4x8 sheet without fussing with connectors. Also there is dust collection, I've got a mix of festool and shopvac/dust deputy. Hard to say what is good for your situation not knowing exactly what kind of work but taking care of the basics is a good place to start and grow from there. If you lack a work surface then also look at MFT. Let the adveture begin.

 

[pugilato]

Good for you... woodworking always presents mental challenges that can keep you interested all your spare time.

You can do everything you can do with festools without them. The thing of it is that using festools makes things flow smoothly. You can switch from track saw to router and use the same stuff you used to set up the track saw. The work area remains clean (you have no idea how much saw dust is created with classical tools and into how many nooks and crannies the stuff gets into).

They are expensive, and I don't buy anything new unless the alternative is messy or time consuming and I can justify to myself that I need it to work on a specific project. Anything you may have read here about the green koolaid is true. I have not regreted buying anything yet.

I would recommend the TS55 tracksaw, with one 55" and the 103" tracks, of the kind used for the LR32 system (the ones with holes). You could get two 55" tracks and butt-connect them, but then you have to verify that the two pieces are perfectly straight. If there is a possibility you might buy the LR32 system, you may regret not getting the tracks with the holes.

Enjoy, and be aware that festools can become somewhat of an obsession because they are so cool.

 

[RussellS]

Kind of depends on your projects.

If carpentry and home owner projects, then the following are good starters from Festool.  TS55 or TS75 track saw with the roughly four foot rail it comes with and the very longest rail, 120 inches or so.  5 or 6 inch random orbit sander.  Vacuum.

If woodworking making furniture, then the following from Festool.  Track saw, longest rail, random orbit sander, vacuum, and Domino.  I add the Domino for furniture making because it is capable of cutting joints to hold all your furniture together.  It comes close to eliminating all other woodworking joints, and is convenient to use.  Cutting joints to put your furniture together is kind of the key to woodworking.  Its almost the most important thing there is.  Stock preparation, dimensioning, cutting, finishing are important too.  But making the pieces fit together is very important.  The Domino does that great and easy.

Table saws, drills, hand planes, jointer, planer, miter saw, etc. you will want/need sometime too probably.  The above Festool tools are a good foundation no matter what woodworking you do.

 

[MrAlighieri]

Welcome to the FOG!

In order for our wide variety of members to give you advice - what sort of projects do you do, and what do you have on the horizon?  If you are working on a room, do you want to be able to set up in the room, or will you be working out of a dedicated "shop" space?  If "space", how big is it?

Just trying to preempt questions I see coming.

Peter

As with any home owner, I have the normal type of projects that a house requires, minor door fixes, trim repair, the occasional shelf  ect.  I also am looking to start doing cabinets for ties and shadow boxes for swords.  I want to be able to transport to rooms where I will be working.  It saves running to the garage every time I need to cut something.  Also I help other friends with things like decking and even a bit of framing.  I have a 25x25 garage to use with one bay dedicated to projects and the other houses a car when it's not needed.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[MrAlighieri]

Welcome to FOG! I'm in a similar boat as you, earn my living in other ways and work on my house and a rental reno as well as other projects. For me it was the basics, cutting, joining and sanding, and the track saw, domino and RO90 have worked fabulous for me. If I didn't already have 5 & 6" sanders I'd probably also have a RO150 but the RO90 has added great utility. Same with routers and miter saw, my others are getting the job done adequately but a 2200 and Kapex would be great improvements. I also invested in guide rails going up to the 118" version allowing me to do a full diagonal cut on a 4x8 sheet without fussing with connectors. Also there is dust collection, I've got a mix of festool and shopvac/dust deputy. Hard to say what is good for your situation not knowing exactly what kind of work but taking care of the basics is a good place to start and grow from there. If you lack a work surface then also look at MFT. Let the adveture begin.

Paul,

I am trying to cover the basics right now.  I have a substandard Tablesaw that needs replaced.  Would the Tracksaw all the basic functions of that?  If so that would keep me from shelling out the 2k for the Sawstop contractors saw and still needing a good circular saw.  I have sanders, and I painted cars with my dad, so I can hand block fairly well.  So that is less of a need now.  I know me well enough to know that if these tools are as good as the promo material, I will likely own many of them in time. .  I have a skils x-bench which I use onsite, which I like well enough (Its a bit heavy).  So the MFT might not be a pressing need.   Most of the work I do is normal home maintence, and the occasional decorative and framing work for friends.  I will be eventually getting into crown molding and some higher end projects like shadow boxes and display stands.  Thanks for your input.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[fidelfs]

There has been a lot of discussions about the track saw replacing the Table Saw.

In a word, "No".  They complement and one excels where the other one has some issues.  It can be done, "Yes", but why go through hoops and loops if the table saw can do it fairly and simple. 

 

[MrAlighieri]

Good for you... woodworking always presents mental challenges that can keep you interested all your spare time.

You can do everything you can do with festools without them. The thing of it is that using festools makes things flow smoothly. You can switch from track saw to router and use the same stuff you used to set up the track saw. The work area remains clean (you have no idea how much saw dust is created with classical tools and into how many nooks and crannies the stuff gets into).

They are expensive, and I don't buy anything new unless the alternative is messy or time consuming and I can justify to myself that I need it to work on a specific project. Anything you may have read here about the green koolaid is true. I have not regreted buying anything yet.

I would recommend the TS55 tracksaw, with one 55" and the 103" tracks, of the kind used for the LR32 system (the ones with holes). You could get two 55" tracks and butt-connect them, but then you have to verify that the two pieces are perfectly straight. If there is a possibility you might buy the LR32 system, you may regret not getting the tracks with the holes.

Enjoy, and be aware that festools can become somewhat of an obsession because they are so cool.

pugilato,

After working at a desk most of the day, staring at a screen most evenings and weekends I never turn a digital screen on (phone doesn't cound, I'm on cal 24/7)  So woodworking and home projects keep me versatile and brings me a sense of accomplishment that my regular line of work can't.  

I am enamored with the System appoach that Festools has.  I have wanted to standardize my tools around a company (or two) that I can trust to make quality items that last.  By the responses here and the forum in general, Festools might be the ticket.  My father was a big believer in Craftsman, but the quality has plummeted since he bought a lot of things.  So many of my tools are craftsman and milwalkee and dewalt.  However having three battery types and chargers, and accessories that don't work between tools really frustrates me.  Especially if I am helping a friend at their house and I don't have something that would make an hour job take 4 because I didn't have or didn't bing the right tool/accessory.

The tracksaw and jigsaw appear to do anything a table saw can do.  Is that about right in your experience?  I have been looking into a new table saw, but it takes up a lot of space and safety on a tablesaw is always an issue. My gf would be pissed if I lost certain digits.  So if those two tools can serve in the stead of a contractors saw then I am willing to shell out the cash for the right tools and accessories.  I really like the right tool for a job.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[MrAlighieri]

There has been a lot of discussions about the track saw replacing the Table Saw.

In a word, "No".  They complement and one excels where the other one has some issues.  It can be done, "Yes", but why go through hoops and loops if the table saw can do it fairly and simple. 

Fidelfs,

Thank you for that information.  What does a tablesaw handle that the tracksaw and maybe the jigsaw would not?  Pardon me if that sounds retarded to you.  I can't know what I don't.   Right now I am trying to pick between a new tablesaw or the tracksaw (with a  420 jig to follow).  Thanks

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[Paul G]

There has been a lot of discussions about the track saw replacing the Table Saw.

In a word, "No".  They complement and one excels where the other one has some issues.  It can be done, "Yes", but why go through hoops and loops if the table saw can do it fairly and simple. 

Agreed with your assessment here, especially for doing finer work. When space allows I'll be adding a table saw, but would never get rid of the track saw, different strengths.

 

[scoffelt]

I am a hobbiest myself, I had a full shop of tools in a small space when I got hooked on Festool. I was looking into doing work for money so wanted something good.  I started with a ETS 150/3 sander as that I knew would get used on ever project I built and the entry ones from all the big box brands created too much dust and I have asthma. I had a Fein vac at that time. I then added the drill, and saw (ATF at that time), both called to me based on what I needed.  A good flexible drill system and an accurate and effective tool to break down sheet goods before I used the table saw.  Eventually I added the router (1400), more sanders and drills, Domino and MIDI.  Today, I still use the core tools the most, ETS and ATF on nearly all projects, drill and router next most.  That's my hobbiest view of what is needed. Forgot to add, I have 1080 & 800 versions of MFT.

 

[MrAlighieri]

Kind of depends on your projects.

If carpentry and home owner projects, then the following are good starters from Festool.  TS55 or TS75 track saw with the roughly four foot rail it comes with and the very longest rail, 120 inches or so.  5 or 6 inch random orbit sander.  Vacuum.

If woodworking making furniture, then the following from Festool.  Track saw, longest rail, random orbit sander, vacuum, and Domino.  I add the Domino for furniture making because it is capable of cutting joints to hold all your furniture together.  It comes close to eliminating all other woodworking joints, and is convenient to use.  Cutting joints to put your furniture together is kind of the key to woodworking.  Its almost the most important thing there is.  Stock preparation, dimensioning, cutting, finishing are important too.  But making the pieces fit together is very important.  The Domino does that great and easy.

Table saws, drills, hand planes, jointer, planer, miter saw, etc. you will want/need sometime too probably.  The above Festool tools are a good foundation no matter what woodworking you do.

Russels,

Thank you.  That really helps.  I am not into fine furniture making...yet. But I might get there.  My most substantial project in that arena was my bar.  I'll post a few pics, if I have them at work.  It will show what I have done in the past.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[gdjenkins10]

Welcome to FOG!

I am also in IT for nearly 30 years and hobbyist woodworker.  Over the last 9 months, I have sold off most of my stationary equipment and switched over to Festool.  I can now quickly pull into my garage and easily pack tools up to assist remote jobs for family or church.  I started with TS55 / now TS75 for the panel work I do.  As an IT person, you will appreciate the accuracy of cuts and less man handling of sheet goods.  I then added a RO 125 and recently RO 90 for delta pad attachment for sanding.  2nd guessing whether I should have gone with the bigger/heavier RO 150.  Domino 500 has displaced my biscuit joiner.  Now there is a 3rd party attachments to allow 5 and 6 mm bits on the Domino XL, I would seriously consider the bigger unit.  I have a MFT/3 and MFT/3 Basic and will probably get 1 more MFT/3 when TS55 gets released again. You get a lot of flexibility with MFT/3 and backup parts over just the basic so would be hard pressed to recommend Basic(I got mine used). As a person with many routers Porter Cable and Dewalt, I did get the OF 1400 with which I am liking(I have to much invested in 1/2 inch bits that OF 1010 did not make sense)

I still have a portable tablesaw for parallel cuts which I cannot fit on my MFT/3.  I have not taken much advantage of the parallel guides as of yet.  I have both Festools and Seneca's which I need to start using more.

 

[Paul G]

There has been a lot of discussions about the track saw replacing the Table Saw.

In a word, "No".  They complement and one excels where the other one has some issues.  It can be done, "Yes", but why go through hoops and loops if the table saw can do it fairly and simple. 

Fidelfs,

Thank you for that information.  What does a tablesaw handle that the tracksaw and maybe the jigsaw would not?  Pardon me if that sounds retarded to you.  I can't know what I don't.   Right now I am trying to pick between a new tablesaw or the tracksaw (with a  420 jig to follow).  Thanks

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

An example from another member, they were struggling to bevel a board and the problem was the guide rail wasn't in perfect contact with the board over the length of the board causing variance in the width of the final board. Much easier on a table saw. Also if you need to rip a bunch of same sized strips like for face frames or drawer and door parts its much quicker on a table saw IMO.

 

[MrAlighieri]

I am a hobbiest myself, I had a full shop of tools in a small space when I got hooked on Festool. I was looking into doing work for money so wanted something good.  I started with a ETS 150/3 sander as that I knew would get used on ever project I built and the entry ones from all the big box brands created too much dust and I have asthma. I had a Fein vac at that time. I then added the drill, and saw (ATF at that time), both called to me based on what I needed.  A good flexible drill system and an accurate and effective tool to break down sheet goods before I used the table saw.  Eventually I added the router (1400), more sanders and drills, Domino and MIDI.  Today, I still use the core tools the most, ETS and ATF on nearly all projects, drill and router next most.  That's my hobbiest view of what is needed. Forgot to add, I have 1080 & 800 versions of MFT.

Scoffelt,

I doubt I will be doing this for money, mostly pleasure. but if someone wants to pay for my hobby, I'll let them. I have a good drill, the dewalt 20v.  When it burns up, I will replace it with the T18 probably.  But hopefully that's a bit down the road.  I have a porter cable 690 router and table that serves me well, again it's a tool I will replace only when it dies.  What tool do you find yourself using the most?

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

 

[fidelfs]

There has been a lot of discussions about the track saw replacing the Table Saw.

In a word, "No".  They complement and one excels where the other one has some issues.  It can be done, "Yes", but why go through hoops and loops if the table saw can do it fairly and simple. 

Fidelfs,

Thank you for that information.  What does a tablesaw handle that the tracksaw and maybe the jigsaw would not?  Pardon me if that sounds retarded to you.  I can't know what I don't.   Right now I am trying to pick between a new tablesaw or the tracksaw (with a  420 jig to follow).  Thanks

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

An example from another member, they were struggling to bevel a board and the problem was the guide rail wasn't in perfect contact with the board over the length of the board causing variance in the width of the final board. Much easier on a table saw. Also if you need to rip a bunch of same sized strips like for face frames or drawer and door parts its much quicker on a table saw IMO.

Exactly!  Ripping is one of the main problems with a track saw.  It can be done, but if you have a Table saw is easier.  Also cross cutting if you have to cross cut several pieces, it is faster in a Table saw (not better or worse, but faster). 

 

[nanook]

I'd get a table saw over a tracksaw any day.    If you have the space for a Table Saw- get a good old one!    
The tracksaws are good tools, and I think a little safer then a tablesaw, also much more compact,  but if you have a permident shop - get a tablesaw.    Tracksaws excel at working with sheet goods and angles; once you get into furniture making though where you are wanting to cut joints with the saw, rip narrow (less then 6in wide) components - all that sorta stuff - a table saw (esp a Sawstop or old Unisaw) is a great option.  
Now if the choice is between a jobsite saw and a Tracksaw, harder choice.   The tracksaw, plus Parallel Guides, plus MFT type thing, well I'd recommended for someone starting out to put that same money into a good semi-pro+ table saw.

 

[fidelfs]

I'd get a table saw over a tracksaw any day.    If you have the space for a Table Saw- get a good old one!    
The tracksaws are good tools, and I think a little safer then a tablesaw, also much more compact,  but if you have a permident shop - get a tablesaw.    Tracksaws excel at working with sheet goods and angles; once you get into furniture making though where you are wanting to cut joints with the saw, rip narrow (less then 6in wide) components - all that sorta stuff - a table saw (esp a Sawstop or old Unisaw) is a great option.  
Now if the choice is between a jobsite saw and a Tracksaw, harder choice.   The tracksaw, plus Parallel Guides, plus MFT type thing, well I'd recommended for someone starting out to put that same money into a good semi-pro+ table saw.

I agree!.  I cannot think of being without my Table saw.  I use plywood, but I also build furniture for my kids and for my own use.  I will move soon to another state and I will have to downsize the big tools. My Unisaw will be for sale and I will buy the best portable table saw available in NorthAmerica (IMHO).  The Mafell Erika, it is very expensive but I will upset the cost with the sale of my Table saw and jointer/planner 12".