Systainer3 wins Red Dot award

[Charles959]

The Systainer3 system has won a Red Dot design award:
https://www.red-dot.org/project/systainer3-47429

It is interesting to see that Festool is credited with the design.

 

[RVHernandez]

2 things: It makes sense if Festool is Tanos' largest "client", then product direction could be driven by them.

In regards to the front handle not laying completely closed when stacked due to the T-Loc lock... From that photo, it looks as if the  Systainer3 T-Loc lock, because of its slight design change in shape, doesn't prevent the handle from being in the closed position when stacked. So I went and measured it, and the new T-Loc lock is not as wide. So when rotated, I can see how it will not be a problem.

Lastly, I did confirm the old and new locks are interchangeable. While not ideal ($$$), if it does bother you, you can replace the old locks with the newer style, if and when available from Festool.

 

[Coen]

2 things: It makes sense if Festool is Tanos' largest "client", then product direction could be driven by them.

In regards to the front handle not laying completely closed when stacked due to the T-Loc lock... From that photo, it looks as if the  Systainer3 T-Loc lock, because of its slight design change in shape, doesn't prevent the handle from being in the closed position when stacked. So I went and measured it, and the new T-Loc lock is not as wide. So when rotated, I can see how it will not be a problem.

Lastly, I did confirm the old and new locks are interchangeable. While not ideal ($$$), if it does bother you, you can replace the old locks with the newer style, if and when available from Festool.

The photo on the red-dot website clearly shows the top systainer not having it's handle flush.

But are you saying they already made a change? So how long we have to wait before they realize they screwed the height system?  [tongue]

 

[mrboult]

I thought it was well established it’s an issue with the smaller SYS3s? I certainly didn’t notice the new T-Loc latches being any less wide, it must be a very minimal difference if it exists.

 

[jt073]

I don’t like the new style Sys3.

The handle on the front seems pretty pointless (if it is only for withdrawing a Systainer from a vehicle rack, there must be better solutions.

Who wants to tip all their Systainers sideways to carry them briefcase-style? All the contents will shift out of place.

So, whereas the T-Loc was a massive improvement on the Classic, and I changed any Classic Systainers I had asap, I will not bother with this new generation.

Cheers

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don’t like the new style Sys3.

I will not bother with this new generation.

I already had that feeling with the T-Locs. And even more so with this newer generation.

Now I can see how the T-Locs appeals to people as the lock is a lot easier to work with, downside is that the systainer is a lot less strong than the classic, and that's why I never liked them. But I do not see the appeal at all of these new over-engineered one-box-can-do-it-all systainers, that front handle is ridiculous, and there's just too much extra material in there you don't need.

 

[mrboult]

I don’t like the new style Sys3.

I will not bother with this new generation.

I already had that feeling with the T-Locs. And even more so with this newer generation.

Now I can see how the T-Locs appeals to people as the lock is a lot easier to work with, downside is that the systainer is a lot less strong than the classic, and that's why I never liked them. But I do not see the appeal at all of these new over-engineered one-box-can-do-it-all systainers, that front handle is ridiculous, and there's just too much extra material in there you don't need.

I agree. One of the reasons I think they’re generally bigger now is that the new lid accommodates way less space inside than the old. The drills now come in massive Systainers, I preferred when they came in a sys1.

 

[Charles959]

The new replies make me wonder whether Festool ever uses focus groups to get reactions to proposed changes.

 

[DeformedTree]

Generally, companies never do, they have things in the pipe long before it happens.  Any questions are to try to get the answer they want to hear.

We don't know if this was all Tanos, but clearly Tanos would talked to Festool.  I suspect they might get pushback from other partners like Mafell who use the systainers.  Companies that put air compressors in these might not be happy either.  Festool is shipping stuff in the new ones, so pausing is going to be hard for them.

Companies don't switch back after they head a direction.

 

[bertv]

I think Bott had a lot of input in this new design. And that Festool adapting the S3 is a financial decision, with the intent fo helping out Tanos (recouping the great investment in new tooling, etc.).

 

[Coen]

The disadvantages of the T-loc vs the Classic are that when stacked the lid bends more and that they open by accident way easier. But the led bending when stacked is something also copied by the L-boxx now, as it is kinda required if you want to be able to open stuff mid-stack. Another disadvantage is that just putting them on top of each other is harder, as the feet of the top one need to 'slide under' the lid of the lower one. If you have Systainers sideways on a shelf (like I have), this makes things a bit harder.

However the big advantage of the T-loc is that it opens way, way, way faster and easier. Especially when it's cold and your fingers are cold too, the classic systainers can be a pita.

But the new Sys3 only has disadvantages except for people using that Bott system in a van....

My biggest problem with them is the height change. Systainers can easily be used to make a 'platform' for something, or to make a stack with MFT height. Not so easy with the Sys3. It also seems most Festool tools now come in a bigger Systainer, just wasting more space. Or look at the new sandpaper Systainers; the one for 80x133 went from place for six stacks to five. And there is of course already plenty choice in things in boxes that waste space... just look at the average L-boxx and their awefull inserts. I recently bought some Bosch tools, .... what a bunch of empty space and odd-shaped cutouts for accessories that I do not know about.

In the past I bought Festool, the Systainer being one of the reasons. Now if I have to replace the Sys3 with a normal T-loc at my own cost... it makes it easier to just start out with another brand.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I agree. One of the reasons I think they’re generally bigger now is that the new lid accommodates way less space inside than the old. The drills now come in massive Systainers, I preferred when they came in a sys1.

It also seems most Festool tools now come in a bigger Systainer, just wasting more space. Or look at the new sandpaper systainers; the one for 80x133 went from place for six stacks to five. And there is of course already plenty choice in things in boxes that waste space... just look at the average L-boxx and their awefull inserts. I recently bought some Bosch tools, .... what a bunch of empty space and odd-shaped cutouts for accessories that I do not know about.

Exactly. I don't understand why Festool needs to waste so much space with their systainers. The current T18 comes in a Sys3, while my old T15 came in a Sys1, and guess what? All the same items are included. Drill, 2 batteries, charger and it fits the 4 most used FastFix heads. So the new package wastes a layer of 7,5 cm in systainer space.

Multiply this over a number of tools you have, and you're driving around with a lot of air in your van. Apparently all Festool customers have huge trucks and an abundance of storage space.

 

[FestitaMakool]

- I’m having only experience with the SYS ORG and the new SYS3 XXL.
Despite the height issues, the “3” seems a lot stronger build, especially around the edges when open, an certainly the lid is way more rigid. The T-Loc latch feels tighter and more secure too.
This was my first impressions with the “old” T-Loc as well, not suited for heavy internals, and weak when the lid is open. It seems like they have addressed this with the new gen.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yep, lotsa more systainer, lotsa less payload.

 

[Dick Mahany]

Yep, lotsa more systainer, lotsa less payload.

Definitely way less interior space.  I recently fitted some turning tools for rings and bottle stoppers into a Sys3 Org M89.  The case is much stronger than my TLocs, however there is a lot of wasted space on all 4 sides. 

For my shop, the height changes are not of concern and I do like the organizers, but I'll likely not purchase any other of the new style Systainer.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Coen]

I agree. One of the reasons I think they’re generally bigger now is that the new lid accommodates way less space inside than the old. The drills now come in massive Systainers, I preferred when they came in a sys1.

It also seems most Festool tools now come in a bigger Systainer, just wasting more space. Or look at the new sandpaper systainers; the one for 80x133 went from place for six stacks to five. And there is of course already plenty choice in things in boxes that waste space... just look at the average L-boxx and their awefull inserts. I recently bought some Bosch tools, .... what a bunch of empty space and odd-shaped cutouts for accessories that I do not know about.

Exactly. I don't understand why Festool needs to waste so much space with their systainers. The current T18 comes in a Sys3, while my old T15 came in a Sys1, and guess what? All the same items are included. Drill, 2 batteries, charger and it fits the 4 most used FastFix heads. So the new package wastes a layer of 7,5 cm in systainer space.

Multiply this over a number of tools you have, and you're driving around with a lot of air in your van. Apparently all Festool customers have huge trucks and an abundance of storage space.

Yeah mean a Sys3 or a Sys3 [what size?]. I checked the website, it says Sys3 M 187; the former Sys3 was 210.

 

[jimbo51]

When the new systainers are placed in a commercial rack, what is the material the systainer guides ride upon; steel, aluminum, plastic?

 

[mrboult]

[member=8955]Coen[/member]
Before the new style Systainer release the drills came in a Sys2. That was smaller than the SYS3 187 the drills now come in.
IMO it’s a further step in the wrong direction from 6 years back when drills came in as Sys1.

 

[Coen]

[member=8955]Coen[/member]
Before the new style Systainer release the drills came in a Sys2. That was smaller than the SYS3 187 the drills now come in.
IMO it’s a further step in the wrong direction from 6 years back when drills came in as Sys1.

Yeah, seems they just picked the next bigger Systainer. At the same size (the 112; which is really 105 if you exclude the 7mm of the feet) has a stated inner height that is 4mm less than the T-Loc I. with the other sizes heights are all different breaking the long standing possibility of easily making stacks of the same height.

Hopefully they at least now have space for the cord of the charger. When they still came in Sys I's that was a problem..

 

[DeformedTree]

There is no one answer on the systainer size.  If your goal the smallest possible package, or is your goal usability?  When you go super dense on the packaging, you start to defeat one of the benefits of systainers.  When you put the tool back, you don't want to have to perfectly place everything, fold and fit it just perfectly, try to remember how they wrap things so it fits in just perfect to get the lid to close.  By going bigger, it means folks can toss the tools in and close the lid a lot easier. Additionally it means there is room for other stuff to be tossed.  Toss in extra blades,  screw tips, maybe an accessory you bought later. 

Having to fit everything back perfectly like it was from the factory is part of what made the blow molded, unique to every tool case so frustrating. You could spend a lot of time just trying to get it back in the case.  I don't want to have to be perfect and have to adjust tool to a very particular packaging. 

So while if you are trying to pack a van with everything possible, a size bigger case may not be what you want. For other it is what they want.  Maybe now someone can pack bits and drill bits in the case with the drill, instead of having to carry them separately.

Smallest possible systainer should not be a priority.