T18 or T15

[morrisericd]

I've been lurking a long time, but I think this is my first post.  I have quite a few Festool tools and think that they set the bar for all other tools in their category.  Question: If I were to go with the T18 would the battery work on a Ti 15 down the road?  If not, would you get the T15 instead of the T18 for battery compatibility?  The drill would supplement my CXS and be mostly used for fasteners as opposed to drilling.  Real heavy duty stuff like lags, etc. could continue to be driven with my Makita Impact Driver.  I did pick up a Centrotec kit so I could see it being my "one drill" that I kept in my truck with my CXS serving back-up in my wood shop.  I mostly build furniture but am also a finish carpenter and am pretty demanding of my tools (and have not yet been disappointed by Festool).  Thanks

 

[AlexThePalex]

Question: If I were to go with the T18 would the battery work on a Ti 15 down the road?  If not, would you get the T15 instead of the T18 for battery compatibility?  The drill would supplement my CXS and be mostly used for fasteners as opposed to drilling.  Real heavy duty stuff like lags, etc. could continue to be driven with my Makita Impact Driver. 

The T18's batteries will not fit the Ti15. You can only use batteries up to 14,4v in the Ti15. That means T12/T15/C12/C15 batteries only.

I am not impressed by the Ti15. It lacks power compared with other's brands impact drivers. When you use it with the drill attachment it is very heavy and badly balanced. I'd go with a nice 14,4v Panasonic impact driver instead. Or if you want something small just to drive screws, a Makita 10,8v.

 

[morrisericd]

Yeah, I have an 18V Makita Impact for the heavy stuff.  So, power of the 18 vs. the 15?  I know they've both been reviewed extensively (and believe me, I've read them all) but there's no substitute for real-world experience.

 

[Kev]

The T18 battery is not suitable for te T15 to my understanding. You can go the other way though.

I started my journey with Festool drills recently ...

First I got the CXS

Then I got the T18 (but it was the old model 2.6Ah and no light, old systainer)

Before I even seriously used the T18 (I was a bit niggled that we didn't have the current model in Oz), my dealer offered me an equitable switch)

So, minus one T18

Add Ti15 full kit and a C15 with a few chucks, etc (now I have lots of 15 compatible batteries)

The T18 is still the flagship though, I will get a T18 as well when the new models are shipping here (seems there's still a lot of the earlier one in the supply chain).

Bottom line on batteries though - the Festool batteries are said to last for years, charge quickly and give a healthy duty cycle.

 

[Kev]

Interesting comments above on the Ti15. Personally I think is balance, weight, power, etc make it a great choice. I also would only use it as a drill at a pinch - so I'd be less concerned about the chuck extension weight/balance issues. Time will tell - my impression is that people become reasonably attached to drill/drivers in particular as they're so much an extension of the arm!

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yeah, I have an 18V Makita Impact for the heavy stuff.  So, power of the 18 vs. the 15?  I know they've both been reviewed extensively (and believe me, I've read them all) but there's no substitute for real-world experience.

I have the T15 but I have never tried the T18 so I don't have any hands on experience with it, but the specs on the Festool sites list the T18 as only 10% stronger, which is minimal. You won't really notice a mere 10% difference in real life applications. The T15 is a very strong drill already that will do must jobs you throw at it. I am very satisfied with mine. 

 

[morrisericd]

And the T15 is a bit cheaper...

My work flow now has me using an impact driver for all of my screwing and while I'd like to change I don't see it taking.  I'm able to feather even Kreg pocket screws in with the impact and every time I try to do the same thing with my drill I end up stripping screws.  Backwards, I know.  Getting the T15 will allow me to buy the Ti 15 next year if need be. 

So I won't really miss the extra power of the T18 with the T15?  I only ask because I do have two sets of drill/impacts - a 18v Makita and a slim Bosch 18v.  There is a significant power difference - especially with the impact - between the two.  I had some 4" screws driven into a board I needed out.  The slim Bosch couldn't handle it.  The Makita pulled them right out (same charge, and the Makita is 4-5 years old but with a 1 year old battery).

 

[AlexThePalex]

And the T15 is a bit cheaper...

Just a tad. Not really that big to make a difference, just like the power.

My work flow now has me using an impact driver for all of my screwing and while I'd like to change I don't see it taking.  I'm able to feather even Kreg pocket screws in with the impact and every time I try to do the same thing with my drill I end up stripping screws.  

I never strip screws with my T15. Happened a lot with my DeWalt I had before. My technique hasn't changed much I think so I blame the new drill for the improvement.  [smile] The T15 just has so much controlability. You feel everything the screw does and the drill reacts with very high precision and sensitivity to the trigger. The moment you feel the screw getting to the point where you want it to be you feel it and with just a slight adjustment of the trigger pressure you let the drill slow down. Works great.

So I won't really miss the extra power of the T18 with the T15?  I only ask because I do have two sets of drill/impacts - a 18v Makita and a slim Bosch 18v.  There is a significant power difference - especially with the impact - between the two.  I had some 4" screws driven into a board I needed out.  The slim Bosch couldn't handle it.  The Makita pulled them right out (same charge, and the Makita is 4-5 years old but with a 1 year old battery).

I don't think you'll miss the power, I wouldn't, but I can't speak for you. But looking how the specs only differ a mere 10% I don't think you'd notice it much. You see, we can measure all these values very nicely with machines and computers, but the human mind doesn't know how to quantify such numbers accurately. Say you drive a 10 mm thick screw into wood with the T15, then it means you can do an 11 mm thick screw with the T18 with the same ease. Is that a big difference? Not really.

I'm amazed a 18v Bosch couldn't handle a 4'' screw. Even my old 12v DeWalt drill could do that easily. For the T15 such a thing would be a piece of cake. I've unscrewed 12 mm screws of 8'' long with it. It has to work for it then, but it succeeds.

Getting the T15 will allow me to buy the Ti 15 next year if need be.  

You have to weigh one thing against the other. Will a tiny bit of extra power in the T18 give me more possibilities/value for my money than the possibility to get the Ti15 later on? I think not. If you want to get the Ti15 later on, get the T15 now.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I've used all of the Festool model drills including the TI 15 and that T 18 is the one.  It doesn't even feel heavy to me, but check it out for yourself and decide if you can hold it for however many hours you usually hold a drill.  I can tell the difference in power by feel alone between the T 15/C 15 and T 18.

 

[Kev]

I've used all of the Festool model drills including the TI 15 and that T 18 is the one.  It doesn't even feel heavy to me, but check it out for yourself and decide if you can hold it for however many hours you usually hold a drill.  I can tell the difference in power by feel alone between the T 15/C 15 and T 18.

Agreed, side by side the T18 and the T15 - you'll notice the significant power increase the T18 gives you. But you still have to consider, if the extra power will never be needed, it's overkill.

 

[hockey_magnet]

Not quite clear - on one post you say this new drill T15 or T18 will be used mostly for fasteners - then you say you use the impact for screwing and that won't change? If you're at all serious about getting the Ti15 at some point, I think the the T15 will work fine for you, particularly if you still want to use the impact for heavy lags, etc. , anyway and certainly the ability to use the same batteries is significant. The control you get from a Festool drill is far superior to any impact tool, no matter how good your feathering technique is. I've used almost all the usual brand name drills, Makita, Bosch, DeWalt, Milwaukee at one time or another and for fine control, nothing comes close to Festool IMHO

Chris

 

[morrisericd]

After a lot of thought I picked up a T18 this morning at my local Festool dealer.  The battery is in the charger as we speak and once it's fully charged I'm going to drive lag screws until it quits.  The drill feels good in the hand and I'm sure has adequate power.  Ultimately I decided that if this thing can do what it says then I don't really need an impact driver and if I do then I'll use my Makita.  Plus, $800 plus for Festool's new driver is too much for me (I think I read that price somewhere).  WIll report back after a few days of use.

 

[Kev]

After a lot of thought I picked up a T18 this morning at my local Festool dealer.  The battery is in the charger as we speak and once it's fully charged I'm going to drive lag screws until it quits.  The drill feels good in the hand and I'm sure has adequate power.  Ultimately I decided that if this thing can do what it says then I don't really need an impact driver and if I do then I'll use my Makita.  Plus, $800 plus for Festool's new driver is too much for me (I think I read that price somewhere).  WIll report back after a few days of use.

I doubt $800 will be the US price point as it seems Festool are keeping US prices low relative to the rest of the planet. Why? I have no idea - and it is causing loyalty questions!

I'd expect relative similarities ... Here in Oz with the Aussie dollar hovering at parity with the US dollar, the full Ti15 kit retais for $799. The MFT/3 sells for $1175 here ... So you can do the math.

All that said, it'd be interesting to see the Ti15 kit go on sale in the US for $799 - then we'd know how desirable Festool is in the US compared to other places  [big grin]

 

[morrisericd]

Okay - Initial impressions for what it's worth.  Remember, I'm not an engineer but I am interested in seeing if the T18 is up on the same level as the rest of Festool (and at $670 with tax - it better be!).

I started out by charging both batteries.  I then drove 11 6" Timberlock screws into a 6 x 6 Pressure treated post.  The wood was dry and the temperature was somewhere around 50 degrees.  Drill setting at 25 (the fastener setting wouldn't even move one half way): It drove 4 relatively easily but would not bury them.  The rest went in 3/4 to 7/8 of the way.  I pulled 4 of them out before the electronics shut down the drill.  It was very hot to the touch.  I waited 3 minutes for the drill to cool and then it pulled the rest of them out.  The drill was still very hot.  This test used up 1 of the 3 bars.  I then waited 10 minutes - still hot.  After 1/2 hour it was warm but not hot.  I then threw in a 1" spade bit (not brand new, but sharp) and drilled 26 holes in the same 6 x 6.  I tried to stop at 4".  The drill was hot after this but never cut out and had one bar left.

I went to lunch and then tried the other fully charged battery.  I drove 50 3" drywall type screws into the same 6 x 6  - drill mode again on 25.  No problem.  Drill was barely warm.  I then tried 6 6" lags again.  I stopped after the 6th - same results as above.  Drill was getting warm but not hot and wouldn't drive them any farther than the surface without beeping at me.

So, what does this mean?  Well, the T18 is no Impact driver.  I didn't expect it to be but after all of the talk I thought it would drive those lags right through the post.  It handled the 1" spade and screws like a champ (after all, that's what it's meant for).  I like the feel of it - it fits nicely in my hand and the way it gives you control while driving fasteners is incredible.  I'm going to continue to torture it for the rest of the week and see how it does.

 

[Frank-Jan]

.... Drill setting at 25 ....

The torque settings doesn't matter when the machine is in drillmode, that's the nice thing about it, if you have the torquesetting adjusted just right for a certain task; and you need to drill a few holes in between; you don't have to memorize and re-adjust when going from drilling to driving and vise versa. 

The speed setting does matter, the drill is stronger at the lower setting.

 

[sl_1800]

I have a CXS and just got the T18 to compliment it.  I have only used the T18 briefly but I really like so far, just like all of my festool tools.

 

[JSands]

Morris, your results are what I would have suspected.  Impact drivers are a technological breakthrough in driving fasteners.  There ratio of amp hours / driving foot lbs of force  -  is unmatched by any cordless drill.....even the BEST cordless drills in the world.    Also as expected, the T18's tremendous feel for seating the screw is unsurpassed.  However, asking the T15 to do the work of an I.Driver or a corded tool, is prob. asking too much from the tool.  If your driving requirements were not so HEAVY (long lags / screws is surely a heavy load), the T15 would prob. be more than adequate to replace the I. Driver.    From my experience with the CXS (I don't have such HEAVY driving requirements), I have found a mixed approach is best...for very small screws, the CXS does the entire driving.  For larger screws, I let the I.Driver get'em almost seated, then fully seat them with the CXS....this assures they are seated without being stripped, something I. Drivers are notorious for.  For those applications where the CXS does not have enough power to seat the screw its last 1/10th of length, I use 100% I.Driver.  Of course, the T18 can do more than the CXS for sure.    When the torque requirements surpass what a drill can handle, I try to size the torque requirements with an I.Driver with slightly more torque output.    This is evidenced by the I. Driver driving speed slowing drastically when final screw seating is near, as when the last 1/10th of the seating is very slow, the risk of stripping the screw in the wood, or tearing its head off is very low.    OTOH, when I use an over-sized I.Drive which has too much torque, its easy to strip the threads in the wood.    I agree, lots of tools, fortunately the other brand names I. Drivers are not that costly.    The I. Driver field is blessed with great products from low to high torque outputs.    That's my take...

sl, I am curious how my you made the full leap from CXS to T18... I was considering the same move, but figured it might be overkill, since my driving Loads are not as extreme as Morris's requirements.  I wish Festool had a Matrix of its drills, explaining or showing the benefits / drawbacks between the models.    The T15 and the T18 do seem rather close in performance, weight, etc.  What are the differences other than the obvious?  Makes ya wonder why they have both?

 

[Brice Burrell]

...sl, I am curious how my you made the full leap from CXS to T18... I was considering the same move, but figured it might be overkill, since my driving Loads are not as extreme as Morris's requirements.   I wish Festool had a Matrix of its drills, explaining or showing the benefits / drawbacks between the models.    The T15 and the T18 do seem rather close in performance, weight, etc.   What are the differences other than the obvious?   Makes ya wonder why they have both?

I'm guessing the T18 is going to the first in a full range of cordless tools from Festool in the coming years.

 

[ScotF]

...sl, I am curious how my you made the full leap from CXS to T18... I was considering the same move, but figured it might be overkill, since my driving Loads are not as extreme as Morris's requirements.   I wish Festool had a Matrix of its drills, explaining or showing the benefits / drawbacks between the models.    The T15 and the T18 do seem rather close in performance, weight, etc.   What are the differences other than the obvious?   Makes ya wonder why they have both?

I guessing the T18 is going to the first in a full range of cordless tools from Festool in the coming years.

I agree...of course there is the Carvex and Syslite.  But I can see a cordless trim saw coming out and even a router.  I think if brushless technology makes into these larger motors...it will take cordless in a whole new direction and open up a lot of possibilities. 

Scot

 

[jmbfestool]

I would go with the T18 my self over the T15!    Im pretty sure festool will bring out a Ti18 impact they did the same with the T15  they brought the T15 out then later on came the T18.    The Carvex is 10 to 18Volts and so are the syslites   so it wouldnt make sence for festool NOT to bring a Ti18 it would be stupid for them not to really as it would be the odd one out not being a 18v tool.

The Ti15 is heavier and bigger than the T15 and also its not as controllable.  With the T15-T18 (I assume T18 is the same) when you let go of the trigger it stops instantly but the Ti15 does not it runs down which to me is CRAP I hate drills which dont stop dead one of the reasons I havent bought a Ti15 my self yet.

JMB