Table Saw Purchase

[DIY WoodWerx]

I picked up woodworking because of DIY home projects.  Projects consist of built in cabinets in bedroomI currently work with Festool TS 55, Domino 500, RTS and Pro 5 Sander, LR32 system, and some DIY parallel guides I made out of 80/20 material.  My MFT bench is a Kreg Universal Bench (64x28) with a top I made myself using the LR32 system and a 80/20 fence with flag stops.  Doing some cabinets for around the house, I noticed that my cuts are slightly off.  My first culprit are my man made parallel guides.  Thinking of splurging on a set of Seneca or Woodpecker.  My second culprit is my man made MFT top and rail attachments. 

That being said, I'm thinking of either investing in 1 or 2 Festool MFT tables and Seneca or woodpecker parallel guides.  Or heading into the world of a Sawstop and getting a PCS 1.75 36" or Contractor 36".  I never had a table saw or used one for cabinet making so it will be a learning experience which is fine as I'm a DYI woodworker and hobbyist.  Question is, how much of the workflow from solely using a track saw to using a track saw and table saw will change?  Is the PCS too much saw for a combo track and table saw workflow?  I would hate to invest in another major tool and not utilize my track saw anymore.  My work space is in the basement of my home.  I have about a 20' x 14' area that I work in.  Have laundry and gym area sharing the basement workspace.

Looking for feedback from experience woodworkers that have this setup or have gone this route and switched to one or the other.

Thanks in advance

 

[RKA]

You'll get answers all over the map and it will come down to your preferences in how you want to organize that shop space and what tradeoffs you're willing to make.

A quality table saw has many uses beyond the sheet good cutting capability you're currently struggling with.  If you intend to make this a hobby, you'll find it valuable, and no, a PCS isn't too much saw to supplement a track saw.  But, the footprint required for a table saw including space for infeed and outfeed support and a dust collector can be substantial.  You have a good amount of space to work with, however most of that space can't be shared.  You'll also need at least a multi function bench that can be used for assembly, clamping, perhaps a little hand tool work, and of course work with handheld power tools.  And then you need storage space for tools and accessories.  I would work on your shop layout and see if a table saw fits into the picture. 

The track saw is still a good supplement to the table saw when dealing with full sized sheets of plywood.  At least for initial break down and even for final sizing on panels too large to crosscut on your table saw.  I think you'll be hard pressed to find people that gave up their track saw after acquiring a table saw, so I wouldn't worry about that.  But you'll also find people that only use a table saw and don't want the extra expense of a track saw.  Track saws are relatively new, gaining popularity in the last 10 years, while table saws have been the mainstay in hobbiest wood shops for decades. 

Accessories for the track saw will depend on which way you go with the table saw.  Parallel guides might not be needed if you're using the table saw for rips.  But an MFT or DIY MFT style bench could still be helpful for the crosscuts with appropriate accessories to keep the work piece perpendicular to the rail and saw.  If you want to use the track saw for everything, obviously the accessories are out there to support it.  And those things it can't do can be backfilled with other tools like a router which will fill in the gap between the table saw and track saw.  In my view it's less efficient in terms of workflow, but sometimes the space savings gained is worth it.  That's a common theme and trade off in woodworking.

 

[Sanderxpander]

I don't have a perfect solution for perfect repeatability either, I don't have a table saw or parallel guides. But I do get perfect squares and near perfect repeatability on things like shelves using careful marking and the TSO Guide Rail square. I heartily recommend this accessory.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I don't have a perfect solution for perfect repeatability either, I don't have a table saw or parallel guides. But I do get perfect squares and near perfect repeatability on things like shelves using careful marking and the TSO Guide Rail square. I heartily recommend this accessory.

I have the TSO guide rail.  I usually take 5mm off the edge, then add the guideraile and go around the board making my cuts to dimensions needed.  Either my technique is wrong, which it very well can be, or something is off on my track rails.  Either way I'm having a hard time deciding to invest more in the track saw only route or get a table saw and learn that tool and utilize the fence on that. 

 

[jonnyrocket]

As mentioned, you will get responses across the board on this question, so I'll add mine to those you have gotten already.

Perfect or near perfect squares can be obtained with what basics you have. Before adding another tool to the mix, I would focus on determining what part of your current flow is introducing the error.

If you add the table saw before you fix your current flow, you may not get any better results than you are now. If needed, document your procedure in pictures and post it here. I'm sure that the collective genius here on the FOG can help narrow down where your issues may be lurking.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

As mentioned, you will get responses across the board on this question, so I'll add mine to those you have gotten already.

Perfect or near perfect squares can be obtained with what basics you have. Before adding another tool to the mix, I would focus on determining what part of your current flow is introducing the error.

If you add the table saw before you fix your current flow, you may not get any better results than you are now. If needed, document your procedure in pictures and post it here. I'm sure that the collective genius here on the FOG can help narrow down where your issues may be lurking.

Very true.  I just came back from buying new splinter guards.  Changing the splinter guard on all my rails.  Also looking to see what parallel guides to get.  I think my DIY ones are introducing some error as well.

Although I don't have pictures now, my procedure that I follow is:

1- Cut 5mm off the factory edge
2- Using the newly fresh edge, measure off my finish dimension and do my rip cut.
3- with the ripped parallel edges, add the GRS or use my MFT Kreg bench and cut 5 mm off the crosscut edge.  Referencing the 1st rip cut edge off the bench fence (80/20 extrusion), I set my flag stop to dimension and cross cut

 

[RKA]

How is #2 being accomplished?  (the parallel cut)

Get that part right, then you can work out any errors on the cross cuts.  The TSO is very accurate, but it's easy to skew it when you're trying to align the rail to a mark. 

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

How is #2 being accomplished?  (the parallel cut)

Get that part right, then you can work out any errors on the cross cuts.  The TSO is very accurate, but it's easy to skew it when you're trying to align the rail to a mark.

I used my DIY parallel guides off the 1st 5mm cut.  I would measure the dimension, set parallel guides using woodpecker rule and stop, clamp rail down and cut

 

[nclemmons]

I use two single edge razor blades like you use for scraping a window.  Measure from a square edge, place a razor blade corner pressed in at that index mark on both ends of the piece.  Slide the guide rail up against those two blade marked points.  Optionally clamp down the rail.  Remove the razor blades and make the cut.

It's the most accurate and least expensive way I have found if you don't want to mess with the various options for parallel guides.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I use two single edge razor blades like you use for scraping a window.  Measure from a square edge, place a razor blade corner pressed in at that index mark on both ends of the piece.  Slide the guide rail up against those two blade marked points.  Optionally clamp down the rail.  Remove the razor blades and make the cut.

It's the most accurate and least expensive way I have found if you don't want to mess with the various options for parallel guides.

Good tip.  I’ll give that a try.

Thanks

 

[ctvader]

I was in a similar position to you not that long ago.  I had/have a dw 744 job site saw that, IMO, is scary to use for the work I do.  Knowing my fingers are extremely important to me, I upgraded the saw to a SS contractor saw with the mobile base.  I work out of a two car garage, which we use to park our cars.  With some reorg, I was able to fit the table saw into a corner of the garage and wheel it when I use it.  Works just fine. 

I own a TS55 along with the TSO guide and it's an amazing combination - it's what I use for large panels with great precision.  As mentioned above, you need to decide what you do and what you make.  If i'm building a cabinet or bookcase, you can't beat the TS55 with the TSO guide.  If you're making small, repeatable cuts (cutting boards, etc), the table saw will be faster and more efficient (Note - I didn't say better).  I hope this helps. 

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I was in a similar position to you not that long ago.  I had/have a dw 744 job site saw that, IMO, is scary to use for the work I do.  Knowing my fingers are extremely important to me, I upgraded the saw to a SS contractor saw with the mobile base.  I work out of a two car garage, which we use to park our cars.  With some reorg, I was able to fit the table saw into a corner of the garage and wheel it when I use it.  Works just fine. 

I own a TS55 along with the TSO guide and it's an amazing combination - it's what I use for large panels with great precision.  As mentioned above, you need to decide what you do and what you make.  If i'm building a cabinet or bookcase, you can't beat the TS55 with the TSO guide.  If you're making small, repeatable cuts (cutting boards, etc), the table saw will be faster and more efficient (Note - I didn't say better).  I hope this helps.

Thanks.  I mostly do cabinets right now.  Looking to do picture frames and other things.  Smallest cuts right now are edge banding cuts to cover plywood edges

 

[rljatl]

I also have a two car garage based shop and with great results use a Festool track saw plus TSO guide rail complemented by a jobsite saw.  I don't feel limited at all and the accuracy is on the money.

P.S.  I have the Seneca parallel guides, but my advice is to buy the jobsite saw first, then decide if you also need the parallel guides.

 

[sancho57]

IMO the only reason you would need a TS for cabinet work and the only reason I own a table saw is for thin rip cuts.
With that being said, If you are making face frame cabinets then you ca make a jig to cut the face frames.

 

[TealaG]

I own a table saw but for the longest time, I used my track saw because I felt safer (and frankly, I still do).  But I have great difficulty with wood narrower than the track, despite using a narrow parallel guide - the wood always pulls away from the guides      Besides the narrow cuts, there are  some cuts that aren't conducive to using a track saw (think cutting a tenon or a dado). 

So I finally got my table saw set up, learned to use it and got an incra fence system.  I am making several small parts cabinets and hardboard dividers - lots of pieces of the same dimensions.  I must admit that using a table saw was much faster and more accurate than my track saw (partially because the pieces are narrower than the track).  However, I was surprised by the fact that I was still using my track saw to break down the large pieces of plywood because I don't want to manage a large piece of wood with the table saw spinning.

I know that there are folks who live without a circular or track saw and just a table saw.  But to me, you need either a circular or track saw, even if you have a table saw because I'm not brave like John Heisz - man handling (literally) a 4x8 sheet of plywood, alone!

I'm glad I learned to use my table saw because I can do some things I couldn't do with my track saw.  But I do realize that my track saw isn't going away either. 

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I own a table saw but for the longest time, I used my track saw because I felt safer (and frankly, I still do).  But I have great difficulty with wood narrower than the track, despite using a narrow parallel guide - the wood always pulls away from the guides      Besides the narrow cuts, there are  some cuts that aren't conducive to using a track saw (think cutting a tenon or a dado). 

So I finally got my table saw set up, learned to use it and got an incra fence system.  I am making several small parts cabinets and hardboard dividers - lots of pieces of the same dimensions.  I must admit that using a table saw was much faster and more accurate than my track saw (partially because the pieces are narrower than the track).  However, I was surprised by the fact that I was still using my track saw to break down the large pieces of plywood because I don't want to manage a large piece of wood with the table saw spinning.

I know that there are folks who live without a circular or track saw and just a table saw.  But to me, you need either a circular or track saw, even if you have a table saw because I'm not brave like John Heisz - man handling (literally) a 4x8 sheet of plywood, alone!

I'm glad I learned to use my table saw because I can do some things I couldn't do with my track saw.  But I do realize that my track saw isn't going away either. 

Thank you.  Interesting to hear that even with parallel guides that are setup for narrow cuts, the wood will still move.  What table saw do you use?

 

[TealaG]

Hi...I have a Bosch 4100 but I added the Incra Table saw fence and attached the router table to the left side.  Honestly, I only did this over Christmas and have only used it since then.  The parallel guides are great for cuts greater than the width of the track and I can get fairly accurate and repeatable cuts that way.  I sometimes just mark the wood on the cutline then use the TSO guide to square the track and I find that to be accurate enough (is it "precision"? No...because despite a thin pencil etc, I am inaccurate, but the cut is fairly square). 

For cuts wider than the track where the uncut piece of wood is 2.5' wide, I can get equal accuracy with both the table saw and track saw, but it's faster on the table saw.  Less than track width, faster and more accurate on the table saw.  Larger than 2.5' wide and I'm cutting that sucker down with a track saw.    Note that my car cannot accept wood greater than 36" wide x 50" so I always get the wood cut at the store, which again reduces the size of wood I manage in the base case.  Nothing I build has a single piece of wood larger than 36x50. 

 

[Alanbach]

First a disclaimer. I suppose that I am a bit biased because I used a table saw for 20 or 30 years before track saws ever hit the US market. So I have a lot of habits that are well ingrained into me. Having said that I upgraded my Unisaw to a Sawstop 3HP PCS about a year ago and also picked up a TS55 shortly after that. I use the TS55 to break down big sheets with ease and safety. However, when it comes to repeatability I use the table saw. If I am building a bunch of cabinets that need 23 1/4” sides I am going slice the sheet down the middle with the track saw and then use the track saw to break down those halves so that they are fat to final dimensions. After that I am going to let the table saw do what it is great at, repeatability. Set the fence to 23 1/4”, Check it twice with your tape and then make a test nick in the first piece. Once you have done that well away you go, and in minutes you have a bunch of pieces that are exactly the same width. Sure the table saw requires that the saw and fence are set up properly and there certainly are techniques that need to be mastered but all in all, IMO, it is a machine made for repeatability and it is good at it. I am sure that there are many here that will argue that accurate repeatability can be achieved with a track saw. I don’t doubt that, however, I read posts almost every week of people struggling to get accurate repeatability out of their track saw. Obviously it is a journey.

The way I look at if you want to make things with tolerances of 1/32nd or 1/64th you need reliable repeatability. I just think that if that is what you need you will find the table saw path a bit smoother. Having said that if that is the road you want to travel and that is the kind of accuracy you want to achieve then make sure you buy a high quality saw but most importantly a saw that is paired with a premium fence. IMO most jobsite saws do not have top notch fences systems. I love my PCS but I would not own their lesser fence, I would only own the T Glide fence. I hope this helps.

 

[Vondawg]

[member=66185]Alanbach[/member] - Real world perfectly stated !....right tool for the right job

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

First a disclaimer. I suppose that I am a bit biased because I used a table saw for 20 or 30 years before track saws ever hit the US market. So I have a lot of habits that are well ingrained into me. Having said that I upgraded my Unisaw to a Sawstop 3HP PCS about a year ago and also picked up a TS55 shortly after that. I use the TS55 to break down big sheets with ease and safety. However, when it comes to repeatability I use the table saw. If I am building a bunch of cabinets that need 23 1/4” sides I am going slice the sheet down the middle with the track saw and then use the track saw to break down those halves so that they are fat to final dimensions. After that I am going to let the table saw do what it is great at, repeatability. Set the fence to 23 1/4”, Check it twice with your tape and then make a test nick in the first piece. Once you have done that well away you go, and in minutes you have a bunch of pieces that are exactly the same width. Sure the table saw requires that the saw and fence are set up properly and there certainly are techniques that need to be mastered but all in all, IMO, it is a machine made for repeatability and it is good at it. I am sure that there are many here that will argue that accurate repeatability can be achieved with a track saw. I don’t doubt that, however, I read posts almost every week of people struggling to get accurate repeatability out of their track saw. Obviously it is a journey.

The way I look at if you want to make things with tolerances of 1/32nd or 1/64th you need reliable repeatability. I just think that if that is what you need you will find the table saw path a bit smoother. Having said that if that is the road you want to travel and that is the kind of accuracy you want to achieve then make sure you buy a high quality saw but most importantly a saw that is paired with a premium fence. IMO most jobsite saws do not have top notch fences systems. I love my PCS but I would not own their lesser fence, I would only own the T Glide fence. I hope this helps.

Thanks for that response.  You mentioned you use a 3HP saw.  Do you fell the 1.75HP with T-glide fence is good enough for cabinet making and picture frame projects, etc?  I’m considering the sawstop PCS or Contractor saw 1.75 with T-Glide