TCS 55 vs. Mafell-KS400 (batt. pow)

[DanielOB]

Researched a lot. In the game was KSS400 (Mafell) and TSC-55 (Festool) a Track-Saw. Many told me Mafell is a better choice but I never could figure out what that "better" actually means. Finally I figured out that Festool is more "accurate" for final cuts which I actually need, and ordered TSC-55. This saw is definitely not for construction work and I do not need it for it (I use Bosch for construction). NO REGRET AT ALL, thanks to my Angels.

Got basic (a saw only), and ordered two 5.2 Ah batteries, so I have 4 batteries now.
Battery were pre-charged to some minimum. I tried the saw several times just to see is all OK. After a week in the box, battery and the saw assembled, the led started flashing when the saw is ON. I measured the voltage and it shows 17.60 V (by the best fluke meter). With this voltage the saw still can run well with no problem.

The batteries will not last as on Bosch/Mafell-KSS400, 36V, but the kerf on that two saws is 40% smaller than Festool, and it is why. Bosch/Mafell are with much more blade vibrations.

I have no complain on the batteries at all, but complain goes to something else. This saw is so well made and so nice that I will think twice every time I need to use it (very bad).

 

[nickao]

And how did you find it more accurate?

I have used at least 4 different track saws and every one of them stayed on the track and made perfect cuts. The Shop Fox was the worst(the track seemed to wobble-maybe I received a bad one), but it still cut accurately after messing with it. The Makita, Festool 55 and 75, and the DeWalt(both battery and corded) all cut perfect out of the box. I never tested those cheap Chinese knock offs though.

All track saw I have  used could easily cut 16 pie pieces out of a 36" diameter circle with the pieces fitting perfectly together. That's accurate enough for me.

Unless a saw you were testing was broke in some way I just don't see how you found any difference in accuracy or precision. The differences from my perspective came in power, dust collection, ease of use and ergonomics, but never in accuracy.

The blade actually made more difference then the saws in the end.

The only track saw I would stay away from that I have used is that Shop Fox. It just feels like a toy.

 

[Holmz]

Unless it needs to be battery powered the TS55 is more generally compared to the MT55.

 

[rizzoa13]

I think you read it wrong he isn't actually basing his findings on any type of comparison. He has no real world experience with anything other than the TSC55 and is basing it off of hearsay. Or maybe the angels told him idunno.

 

[Holmz]

I think you read it wrong he isn't actually basing his findings on any type of comparison. He has no real world experience with anything other than the TSC55 and is basing it off of hearsay. Or maybe the angels told him I dunno.

I read it correctly and we have the same conclusion.

As I use a tracksaw near power, I got a corded version, which means that I have to have power for.
And I discounted a TSC55 over a TS55 as the battery seems more of a disadvantage than a benefit.
Plugging the saw into a CT26 ensure that the vacuum will come on. If there was a cordless vacuum, then maybe I would have changed my decision.

If I was looking for a contractor saw, and battery powered, then I would have considered a KSS... but I wanted a tracksaw.

Obviously they make a variety because people have differing needs.
And happiness is a good metric too.

 

[DanielOB]

A guy just across the street of me use both, Kss400 and TSC55, both with a battery. He is a professional construction guy and use them daily. As he told me, and we together did some cuts in 32 mm Oak and Mahogany too, KSS400 is out of square, but it does not matter for construction work, however he will think twice to use it for expensive solid wood furniture because his TSC55 is a better choice for such work.

CONSTRUCTION: TSC55 (battery) IS NOT so useful for construction (not made for it), and KSS400 is much better here. Even for this work, I think, KSS400 is way to expensive, $3000 to get in Canada where I live. One can get 7-8 new Bosch circular saws for that pocket [eek], even get a little slower, but no racing with a saw. And it is exactly what I use for studs and poko-poko plywoods.

HIGH END FURNITURE (Oak, Maple, Mahogany, ..., solid wood). This is I talk about. Here no gap or any similar flaw is allow, at least in my work where ALL is pre-cut by the drawings and no fixing. As we both concluded, KSS400 has a play and a blade squareness problem. Further, the blade on KSS400 is 1.0 mm thick and the kerf is 1.6 mm (mitutoyo cal.) while on Festool both are 40% thicker (samples we had). Is is also why battery on KSS400 lasts longer. This makes much less vibration of TSC55 and it was really obvious that cuts with KSS400 need further work with a sander or a plane, unlike with TSC55 (splinter guard was in). Further, when KSS400 got into a place where the blade can swing away (e.g. knot or a grain flow in hardwood) from the path, and it did, while TSC did not, and both were in the rail-guides. Probably it is due the rail guide in the TSC55 (adjustable to zero clearance after wear).

"I have used at least 4 different track saws and every one of them stayed on the track and made perfect cuts..."
It depend on your personal standard for straightness.

 

[thedude306]

If his KSS400 is out of square, he dropped it or he needs to contact Mafell.  If he paid $3000 for that saw I would be jumping up and down if it wasn't manufactured correctly.  It "should" make perfect cuts.  Just like all the Festool offerings. 

If he is using his Kss400 for construction, I can only assume it's a 40 tooth or less combo blade??  What was on the Festool?  Apple to Apples I have never seen a quality saw not perform as equally as another with the same blades.  It comes down to power and features IMO.

 

[DanielOB]

It is not 1" out of square, just a little (showing light gap with universal square), but for furniture as mention above, is not acceptable. For construction, who care for that small squarness problem, and it does not bother him.
Timberland removed this saw from their web-site (I can't find it there). The price was $1800 US (+25 for Canadian Dollar, + shipping, +custom duty) it is now easy above $3000 CD for a construction saw, and NO brushless motor on it. Well is not this a little funny?

On KSS400 was 40 teeth blade, 1.6 mm kerf, and on TSC55 was Festool 48 tooth blade, 2.2 mm kerf. Both were used and sharp at finger touch.

I am not saying Mafell KSS400 (battery) is not a good saw, but for construction and the way how all is cut at construction site, this saw is only a luxury. What I am saying is : for high-end furniture there are better choices, like TSC55, and ONLY for this I got Festool.

 

[Wuffles]

Again, why is this being compared to a KSS400?

You can tell the Mafell owners are getting riled up  [cool]

 

[nickao]

"I have used at least 4 different track saws and every one of them stayed on the track and made perfect cuts..."

"It depend on your personal standard for straightness."

That is just a weird statement, "personal standard" for a straight cut? Straight is straight it has zero to do with personal standards. That's like saying 12" is not 12' for the next guy.

My standard for straightness is straight enough to glue up wood parts with no jointing. No woodworker needs better.

Try it yourself, not only the tool, but the technique needs be perfect. Cut a circle out of whatever wood  36" in diameter, even larger is better. Then use your track saw to cut 16 pieces and see if the parts line up exactly. Most any track saw can do this and if the tool can do this the straightness standard is perfect for wood and all anyone needs as well.

When I do this for work regrettably I don't get to take the easy way out and get to cut a circle out of one piece of wood then cut the wedges. I have to cut the wedges from 16 different pieces of wood and glue them up, but it's the same concept. Luckily on a daily basis I don't have to use a track saw for this type work, but its a a nice test for one.

The larger main brand track saws I have used all  can cut with accuracy and precision and make  perfectly straight line cuts that can be glued up with no jointer . I'll stand by that. A straight line is a straight line.

 

[AlexThePalex]

$3000 for a KSS400 saw? Hmmm.

It is 727 here in Holland. Thats just over $1000 CAN. Add shipping €50 and customs duty and you're set for around $1500. Still a lot, but not $3000.

 

[nickao]

That's a boat load of money,  I could never justify anything close to that cost myself for this type of tool.

 

[Davej]

Seems strange to do a comparison of 2 different ' styles'  of saw. Surely the mafell is more akin to the New hkc cordless. Just my thoughts
Dave

 

[neeleman]

for a KSS400 saw? Hmmm.

It is 727 here in Holland. Thats just over  CAN. Add shipping €50 and customs duty and you're set for around  Still a lot, but not

Although it's not clear from the posts, but doesn't he talk about the KSS400/36v version?
This saw also cost a lot overhere: €1.384 incl. VAT. (CAN $1.979)

 

[nickao]

Seems strange to do a comparison of 2 different ' styles'  of saw. Surely the mafell is more akin to the New hkc cordless. Just my thoughts
Dave

That HKC has a little trimming guild rail that seems pretty cool. Maybe you are right for a head to head for a review, the OP may have chosen the wrong Festool to compare. BUT, if that's what he was looking at it for his own use it's his comparison, unfair or not.

I wouldn't say the two Festool versions are different styles, they are track saws, but one is more for the trades the other for the shop. The HKC is more of a miter system to me.

I would hope the differences between the two Festool saws themselves are only size and ergonomics making one better for on site use. I imagine both are going to cut the same perfectly straight line, with the HKC excelling with simpler miters, that does seem whats it's designed for.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Although it's not clear from the posts, but doesn't he talk about the KSS400/36v version?

Probably. Would have been nice if he had named it correctly so I didn't have to make an a## of myself.  [tongue]

 

[nickao]

You cant make an a## of yourself when you are trying to help someone, which is what answering these posts are, help.

All you can do is comment on the info you have at the time.

 

[DanielOB]

Sorry guys, I had in my head it is enough to name the thread
TCS 55 vs. Mafell-KS400 (batt. pow)

Once again, both saws are battery powered (Mafell 1x36V, Festool 2x18V ...)

Doweltail65 : nothing is perfect, and there no such think as 12" exactly. ANY measurement has tolerance +/-. To someone +/- 1" is OK, and to anotherone +/- 1/16" is max error acceptable, for the same job. I assumes +/- 1" is not something when such expensive saw, as Mafell KSS400/36V, will be used.

I also forgot to mention the problem with miter-cut with Kss400/36V. With Festool TSC55 one have to mark the miter-line, lineup the guide and than cut. With Mafell it is much faster, but the cut only once was dead on the line (3 times missed). However all that missing are perfectly acceptable for construction work but not for fine furniture.

 

[nickao]

The Mafell looks awfully nice, but as stated the TCS 55 may be better compared to some other saws. It is closer to the Festool HKC. It course it can be compared to battery or non battery or anything we want, but its seems the Mafell is a miter system saw like the HKC. Here are some pdf's for comparison.

KSS 400

http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/mafell/PDFs/MAF-KSS400.pdf

http://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/mafell/MAF-KSS400.html

Festool HKC

https://www.festool.net/microsite/projects/hkc/downloads/L2015_FES_HKC55_Brochure_en-GB.pdf

Here is the Festool TCS brochure:

http://bisjettools.com/brochures/TSC_Cordless_Tracksaw.pdf

 

[DanielOB]

Doveltail65 please read the thread from beginning. You are so confusable. Go to http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/track-saws/

I would like to UNDERLINE this is not a kind of official review. This is just my personal observation during choosing one between two machines. Mafell KSS400/36V is an excellent saw for construction but not as good as Festool KSC55 for fine furniture, and this purpose was my target.