The case for induction cooktops.

[Packard]

[member=74278]Packard[/member] , if you want to try using a carbon steel pan without breaking the bank, try this one from Lodge.  I enjoy mine.  https://www.lodgecastiron.com/product/carbon-steel-skillet?sku=CRS12

Peter

Thanks for that information.  The name I hear most often is “Merton”, also at $40.00.

Look here: https://www.foodandwine.com/lifesty...-carbon-steel-induction-12-frying-pan-skillet

A cast iron Dutch oven will absolutely turn out the best, and messily juicy hamburgers.

First heat the pot to searing heat and sear both sides of the burger for one minute.  Turn down the heat to a medium heat and cover.  Cook for 3 minutes (you may have to adjust the time), then turn off the heat and leave covered for 4 minutes.  It will continue to cook while covered.

On my cooktop that makes a medium-well burger, but one far more juicy than with any other method. 

Try this once, and you will never go back to any other method for burgers.  Also note, the  more expensive cuts with the lower fat content are less juicy too. 

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]  take a look at this line of French cooktops and ranges. Le Cornue
https://www.lacornueusa.com/chateau-supreme

These are like the Ferrari of ranges. Price start at around 13K and go up to over 80K

Ron

Thanks Ron...I'm familiar with that line as the local Williams-Sonoma has a HUGE 6 or 7 burner black & brass unit as a centerpiece in their store.  [smile]  They happen to be a La Cornue dealer.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

About 11 years ago when we did a huge kitchen/dinning room/living room remodel (ourselves) took a chance on induction. My wife and I loved NG stove and oven but we hated cleaning under the burners often. We have a 5 burner induction cooktop and it operates very similar to NG. It heats fast and stops producing heat when turned off.

 

[Packard]

About 11 years ago when we did a huge kitchen/dinning room/living room remodel (ourselves) took a chance on induction. My wife and I loved NG stove and oven but we hated cleaning under the burners often. We have a 5 burner induction cooktop and it operates very similar to NG. It heats fast and stops producing heat when turned off.

The one thing that you can’t do with an induction cook-top (and is not needed) that you can do with a gas stove, is the lift the pan off the flame to reduce the heat temporarily.

The induction cooktop requires constant contact between the stove and pan.  When that connection is broken on my stove, the burner turns itself off.

The reason it is not needed is that tapping the control for a lower temperature instantly lowers the temperature of the pan and instantly increases the heat when tapped “up”.

But if the cook is used to lifting off the burner and shuffling the pan back and forth, then this requires a change in method and habit. Perhaps an obstacle for induction’s acceptance.

I’m not much of a foodie, and I’m definitely an honorary member of the nuke-it-for-dinner tribe so my preference for induction is primarily because it is less likely to burn my house to the ground. 

As for frying pans, this video compares the carbon steel pans from three manufacturers.  I have noted that virtually all the short order chefs use carbon steel pans.

And one local diner on Long Island had about 100 of those pans and served the breakfast eggs, bacon, toast, etc. on the pan in which the eggs were fried.  Interestingly they has flat file-like drawers filled with palm fronds that they used to infuse the breakfast meats with msg.  I have not seen that done anywhere else. 

 

[woodferret]

The one thing that you can’t do with an induction cook-top (and is not needed) that you can do with a gas stove, is the lift the pan off the flame to reduce the heat temporarily.

The induction cooktop requires constant contact between the stove and pan.  When that connection is broken on my stove, the burner turns itself off.

I still miss that ability on gas stoves.  But inductions (at least Bosch does) have grace period before shutoff.  Your choice of pan also affects how slowly/quickly it cools and tilting it also works to localize hot spots if you have a strong enough field.

My AllClad retains enough heat to not be noticeable either way.  I do however, like my Chinese Cusinarts for this reason as they have almost no heat mass and I can use my old cooking habits.

This is another mark against the full-surface inductions, because you can offset the pan off the field and it won't track you on full heat.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

The one thing that you can’t do with an induction cook-top (and is not needed) that you can do with a gas stove, is the lift the pan off the flame to reduce the heat temporarily.

The induction cooktop requires constant contact between the stove and pan.  When that connection is broken on my stove, the burner turns itself off.

I still miss that ability on gas stoves.  But inductions (at least Bosch does) have grace period before shutoff.  Your choice of pan also affects how slowly/quickly it cools and tilting it also works to localize hot spots if you have a strong enough field.

My AllClad retains enough heat to not be noticeable either way.  I do however, like my Chinese Cusinarts for this reason as they have almost no heat mass and I can use my old cooking habits.

This is another mark against the full-surface inductions, because you can offset the pan off the field and it won't track you on full heat.

Yeah - mine has grace period too. Think it doesn’t apply power with pan off but allows you to say drain a pan and then put it back on the cooktop.

 

[live4ever]

So those of you that switched from gas - anything at all you miss about gas?

 

[woodferret]

So those of you that switched from gas - anything at all you miss about gas?

Works with cheap light woks.  Induction by nature is only on the bottom... there's conductive heat and all, but that enveloping heat doesn't happen.

 

[PaulMarcel]

So those of you that switched from gas - anything at all you miss about gas?

Works with cheap light woks.  Induction by nature is only on the bottom... there's conductive heat and all, but that enveloping heat doesn't happen.

This is why I have a tabletop gas burner: woks, donabes, and 'smores. It's strange to see my builder coil range: has a tabletop gas burner and a portable induction burner sitting on top of it. The coil range largely goes unused.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I was recently watching This Old House and learned there are "full surface" induction cooktops.  I didn't realize they existed, but it seems like a game changer, at least to me.

A Gaggenau induction cooktop was installed on This Old House (I've never heard of this brand before), but I see that Thermador makes a similar cooktop:https://www.thermador.com/us/products-list/cooktops-rangetops/induction-cooktops/CIT36YWB.

Last night, I went down a rabbit hole (or rabbet hole to stay on FOG topic) on these cooktops. That Thermador full-surface cooktop looks amazing. According to a lot of Reddit threads on them, Thermador is a less expensive line of Gaggenau both under the same parent company BSH (owns Bosch, too). As one poster mentioned, a salesman for both admitted the extra bells and whistles of the Gaggenau aren't worth the extra premium over the mostly equivalent Thermador. But still, $6k is double the other premium brands (but not full-surface).

The digital display shows where your pans are, their shape and size, along with the power settings with modifiers (like power boost). Reall cool is you can move a pan and the setting follows (either by sliding it or lifting and putting it down).

What I don't like, and can't get over, is changing the heat setting means tapping a burner on the display (okay...) and then scrolling through the power settings much like the number scroller on an iPhone. Um, that sucks. The Bosch has it right: tap burner if it isn't already the selected one then directly tap the power level and/or modifiers; much more direct. The Gaggenau version of that top has optional magnetic knobs.

 

[peter halle]

One thing I learned in my search for my new cooktop (non-induction) was that going with the "top tier" brands didn't usually mean more watts or but so to speak.  Our complaint was that the "burners" on our 5 year old Kitchenaid didn't have the oomph of our previous Frigidaire at our previous house.  When I went looking for this replacement I looked at the specs for the Thermidor, Wolf, and others and the Cafe won out at a lower price.  The digital cook controls make cleanup easier than pulling the knobs on the old one but do take some getting used to in the element control department.

Peter

 

[Mike Goetzke]

One thing I learned in my search for my new cooktop (non-induction) was that going with the "top tier" brands didn't usually mean more watts or but so to speak.  Our complaint was that the "burners" on our 5 year old Kitchenaid didn't have the oomph of our previous Frigidaire at our previous house.  When I went looking for this replacement I looked at the specs for the Thermidor, Wolf, and others and the Cafe won out at a lower price.  The digital cook controls make cleanup easier than pulling the knobs on the old one but do take some getting used to in the element control department.

Peter

I know this is off-topic (sorry), but, why do true built-in microwave ovens seem to have less power than countertop units yet they cost much more? Just replaced an Electrolux that I think was only 750W with a 950W. Counter tops went to 1200W.

 

[peter halle]

RE; Built-in microwaves - maybe due to venting and heat dissipation of the unit itself?

Peter

 

[Packard]

The one thing that you can’t do with an induction cook-top (and is not needed) that you can do with a gas stove, is the lift the pan off the flame to reduce the heat temporarily.

The induction cooktop requires constant contact between the stove and pan.  When that connection is broken on my stove, the burner turns itself off.

I still miss that ability on gas stoves.  But inductions (at least Bosch does) have grace period before shutoff.  Your choice of pan also affects how slowly/quickly it cools and tilting it also works to localize hot spots if you have a strong enough field.

My AllClad retains enough heat to not be noticeable either way.  I do however, like my Chinese Cusinarts for this reason as they have almost no heat mass and I can use my old cooking habits.

This is another mark against the full-surface inductions, because you can offset the pan off the field and it won't track you on full heat.

Yeah - mine has grace period too. Think it doesn’t apply power with pan off but allows you to say drain a pan and then put it back on the cooktop.

The heat level indicator on my GE Profile induction top will flash on/off when the pan is lifted.  I just timed it and it will remain “on” for 26 seconds with the pan lifted.  When it turns off, I hear a two tone chime.  I don’t know if the magnetic field is on or off during that 26 second span or if it only comes on when in contact with something with iron in it. 

My stove top allows me to link two adjacent burners with a single control.  This so that a metal griddle can be used.  I have a cast iron one, but have never used it.

My old cast iron pan was machined smooth.  My current version appears to be “as cast”.  I assume that change was made to reduce cost. 

Is the non-stick seasoned pan that was machined smooth function better than the “as cast”.  I wonder if Emory cloth on a random orbital sander would smooth out the surface.  And if there is any advantage in doing so.

I bought two (2) medium size Dutch ovens on sale at BJs Club a couple of years ago @ two for $25.00 ($12.50 each).  They were porcelain coated.  I have one in my kitchen and I gifted the second one.  Made in China.  I wonder if I am poisoning myself every time I cook with it.

 

[Packard]

One thing I learned in my search for my new cooktop (non-induction) was that going with the "top tier" brands didn't usually mean more watts or but so to speak.  Our complaint was that the "burners" on our 5 year old Kitchenaid didn't have the oomph of our previous Frigidaire at our previous house.  When I went looking for this replacement I looked at the specs for the Thermidor, Wolf, and others and the Cafe won out at a lower price.  The digital cook controls make cleanup easier than pulling the knobs on the old one but do take some getting used to in the element control department.

Peter

I know this is off-topic (sorry), but, why do true built-in microwave ovens seem to have less power than countertop units yet they cost much more? Just replaced an Electrolux that I think was only 750W with a 950W. Counter tops went to 1200W.

I would avoid built in microwaves until they standardize the size of the ovens.  My ovens last 7 to 10 years and then have to be replaced.  Not much of an issue at less than $150.00 each time.  But if it were built-in and the size were to change by just a little tiny bit…. Well, you get the idea.  At this point, I think build in microwaves are a mistake.  And built in set in a base cabinet an even bigger mistake.

 

[WillAdams]

The over-the-stove microwaves at least are a width which seems standard enough that they won't change, and will continue to be available.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

One thing I learned in my search for my new cooktop (non-induction) was that going with the "top tier" brands didn't usually mean more watts or but so to speak.  Our complaint was that the "burners" on our 5 year old Kitchenaid didn't have the oomph of our previous Frigidaire at our previous house.  When I went looking for this replacement I looked at the specs for the Thermidor, Wolf, and others and the Cafe won out at a lower price.  The digital cook controls make cleanup easier than pulling the knobs on the old one but do take some getting used to in the element control department.

Peter

I know this is off-topic (sorry), but, why do true built-in microwave ovens seem to have less power than countertop units yet they cost much more? Just replaced an Electrolux that I think was only 750W with a 950W. Counter tops went to 1200W.

I would avoid built in microwaves until they standardize the size of the ovens.  My ovens last 7 to 10 years and then have to be replaced.  Not much of an issue at less than $150.00 each time.  But if it were built-in and the size were to change by just a little tiny bit…. Well, you get the idea.  At this point, I think build in microwaves are a mistake.  And built in set in a base cabinet an even bigger mistake.

Ha - I'm in the bigger mistake category. When we were completely remodeling I designed in a built-in micro above the oven. We go to purchase the appliances and my wife fell in love with a double oven so the microwave had to go in a base cabinet. 11 years later we needed a replacement and I found one the correct width but had to make a 1" filler for the height.

 

[Cheese]

11 years later we needed a replacement and I found one the correct width but had to make a 1" filler for the height.

Mike that's a bonus round in my playbook... [big grin]

 

[Packard]

One thing I learned in my search for my new cooktop (non-induction) was that going with the "top tier" brands didn't usually mean more watts or but so to speak.  Our complaint was that the "burners" on our 5 year old Kitchenaid didn't have the oomph of our previous Frigidaire at our previous house.  When I went looking for this replacement I looked at the specs for the Thermidor, Wolf, and others and the Cafe won out at a lower price.  The digital cook controls make cleanup easier than pulling the knobs on the old one but do take some getting used to in the element control department.

Peter

I know this is off-topic (sorry), but, why do true built-in microwave ovens seem to have less power than countertop units yet they cost much more? Just replaced an Electrolux that I think was only 750W with a 950W. Counter tops went to 1200W.

I would avoid built in microwaves until they standardize the size of the ovens.  My ovens last 7 to 10 years and then have to be replaced.  Not much of an issue at less than $150.00 each time.  But if it were built-in and the size were to change by just a little tiny bit…. Well, you get the idea.  At this point, I think build in microwaves are a mistake.  And built in set in a base cabinet an even bigger mistake.

Ha - I'm in the bigger mistake category. When we were completely remodeling I designed in a built-in micro above the oven. We go to purchase the appliances and my wife fell in love with a double oven so the microwave had to go in a base cabinet. 11 years later we needed a replacement and I found one the correct width but had to make a 1" filler for the height.

My objection to microwave-in-a-base-cabinet is simpler. 

I will sometimes heat up coffee or tea.  I like my coffee very hot, so I take advantage of the clear window in the door to watch for the liquid to start to simmer, at which point I quickly open the door to turn off the microwave.

Try doing some visual inspection heating with the microwave in the base cabinet. 

The microwave resting on a counter or 15” higher than the counter are better.  (Counter height requires bending over to observe; 15” higher allows standing.  But at counter height makes removing the contents of the oven easier.)

The slide out drawer in the in-the-base-cabinet microwave designs seems like a gimmick that is destined to fail well before the rest of the oven.

I read recently that modern major appliances have a effective life of about 8 years (consistent with my experience).  Older appliances lasted 15 plus years.  (My clothes drier is over 27 years old—it was in the house when I bought it.)

The article blamed the shortened service life on high end electronic features and reduced build quality.

I believe that the components are chosen to have a life of about 8 years.  I believe that the manufacturers feel that a service life of 15 or more years is detrimental to their profits.

Table saw manufacturers may wake up one day and come to the same conclusion.  SawStop tech may be their route to shortened service life. (It is hard to shorten the service life of cast iron components.  The electronics are easier to compromise.)

 

[Packard]

This video is highly misrepresenting the real life situation for these stovetops.

While the countertop does not heat up absent of the pan, the heated pan will transfer heat to the stone.

So if you fry a single egg in a pan, the stone might only get uncomfortably warm, but if you leave a stew on the burner to simmer for a couple of hours, the stone will get hot enough to burn you.

Also, while the glass topped version will cool down in a few minutes, the large mass of the countertop will take far longer to cool down.

I would also note, that my induction top has a warning light that says HOT, when the surface exceeds a certain temperature (I don’t know what temperature that is set at).

It does not appear from this video that the beneath-the-stone version has any similar warning.

Further, this will only work with natural stone like granite or Quartzite.  Marble,
soapstone, and man-made “quartz” countertops would not be suitable. 

That having been said, if I had a gas stove and a suitable stone countertop, I would opt to install a single burner version of this to compliment the gas stove capabilities.

They show chopping and dicing directly on the stone top.  Would you do that?  Or would. You sue a cutting board?