The Centro-tec-ifier Mk 1

[mikey2]

After watching Paul Marcel's excellent video, I whipped this jig together in about 2 minutes as a proof of concept to modify a Kreg driver bit for the Centro-tec chuck.  It holds a micro die grinder with a diamond bit to make the groove, much easier than using files.  The brass screw is offset from the bit, and is used to set the driver bit to the proper height for the new groove.  I will probably add a block later with a dado to hold a file for knocking off the edges of the hex bit.

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[GPowers]

Nice little mod [smile]

 

[RONWEN]

Good idea.  It doesn't show, do you have stops set on the other side of the jig to stop the grind at the correct depth?  You could go into production.  [smile]

 

[mikey2]

I have been doing it by hand, checking with a caliper, but am debating making the Mark 2 pivot, with an adjustable stop.  This one was just whacked together to see if it would work properly.

 

[John Stevens]

am debating making the Mark 2 pivot, with an adjustable stop.

Please add this to the debate going on inside your head--how much would I have to pay you to make it worth your while to make one for me?

Regards,

John

 

[GPowers]

I will bet you could sell quite a few here on the FOG!

 

[woodguy7]

I bet you could, but would Festool (Shane) let you ?

 

[jonny round boy]

I bet you could, but would Festool (Shane) let you ?

I don't see why not. Festool have said that basically they aren't going to be selling centrotec square drive bits anytime soon, so I don't see why someone couldn't make a batch & sell them on here, in the same way as Ron did with the domiplate.

 

[Qwas]

The problem I see is you're copying the Centrotec mechanism that I'm sure is copyrighted. It's one thing to copy it and makes parts for yourself but it's a different set of rules as soon as you sell one.

 

[GPowers]

So then we all buy our own bit and DONATE to mikey2 for over polishing them. [wink]

 

[RONWEN]

Shane can chime in but I don't see much difference in offering those for sale than the Domino plates that I make -- you would be enhancing the tool not competing with Festool.

 

[Qwas]

I don't think your plate is a copy of anything Festool makes. Here they want to duplicate the bottom half of a Centrotec bit, something Festool makes and sells. Sure, Festool doesn't sell it on a Robertson bit.

So Mikey makes it with a Robertson bit. Sales get slow and Mikey wants more money. Can Mikey make it with a Phillips bit or Pozi bit and compete against Festool? So  Mikey can make half the bit but not the other? Festool has no patent on Phillips or Pozi-drive so why can't Mikey make them?

Festool has already stated they can't find someone to make them within their specifications. That should tell you right there that Festool has it patented and wants to protect their patents.

I'm not trying to stop any innovative ideas from flowing here but Festool is entitled to their patents and we should all be respecting them. I want Robertson bits as much as anybody but it needs to be done right.

 

[RONWEN]

I don't disagree Steve however I had in mind him making the bits that Festool does not offer so no competition.

 

[John Stevens]

The problem I see is you're copying the Centrotec mechanism that I'm sure is copyrighted. It's one thing to copy it and makes parts for yourself but it's a different set of rules as soon as you sell one.

If he's making bits for sale, I'll agree at least in part (not sure whether personal use would fall outside patent protection, or just not be worth enforcing).

On the other hand, if he's selling a tool so that people can modify bits to fit a centrotec chuck, then I'd think it's the patents on the tooling or manufacturing process that would matter, not the patents on the bits.  I'd assume the tooling, manufacturing process and bits are all protected by patents, but that's just speculation.  Solid answers to these questions require expertise in patent law and personal knowledge about the patents themselves, because the inquiry into whether there's a valid claim of patent infringement is going to be very factually detailed.

Regards,

John

 

[Qwas]

John, I'm not sure of the legality and it would take a lawyer to be safe. The cost of lawyers means a higher selling price for the bit.  [blink]

But here is the big problem I see. Mikey (or someone) is going to start a business making the parts which will "enhance" Festool's line of drill bits. The only problem is you're going to annoy Festool by doing so. If Festool can't find a regular bit manufacturer do you think they will be happy with this tool bit?

So your business model is to enhance the product line of the company you annoy.  It doesn't sound like a winner to me.

 

[mikey2]

I have not mentioned anything about selling anything.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I loved how you did that.  Certainly would be good for batching out a bunch.  As you saw in that short video (well, short for me...) I now usually just go chuck up the driver bit and file it when I realize I need it.  You're using a diamond bit here and someone commented on the clip about using a diamond file instead.  I'm sure it would work much quicker; the files I used were "providence unknown".  But you have me thinking... I have a Dremel I never use (just for tile grout removal) and someone gave me some clearance diamond bits shaped like a ball like the one you have here.  Hmm.... maybe next weekend.

Nice idea and posting.

 

[RONWEN]

John, I'm not sure of the legality and it would take a lawyer to be safe. The cost of lawyers means a higher selling price for the bit.  [blink]

But here is the big problem I see. Mikey (or someone) is going to start a business making the parts which will "enhance" Festool's line of drill bits. The only problem is you're going to annoy Festool by doing so. If Festool can't find a regular bit manufacturer do you think they will be happy with this tool bit?

So your business model is to enhance the product line of the company you annoy.  It doesn't sound like a winner to me.

This discussion is all hypothetical because he has no intent to sell.  There are many tradesmen that only use Robertson square bits -- I would think they are potential increased sales for Festool drills (those same tradesmen don't want to mess with adapters for the square bits) so I'm not sure that would annoy the company.  Again, all hypothetical. 

 

[fdengel]

Selling a bit that fits the chuck would be one thing; I think it would be a bigger issue if he tried to use Festool's trademark and actually called it a "CentroTec" bit -- that strikes me as much more likely to get them upset.

Like others, though, I'm not a lawyer, and as pointed out, this is all hypothetical.