The Festool-is-too-expensive-i-own-something-else-group.com

[Kev]

I'm noticing a lot of this of late and I've seen the mood of the forum change.

... Lots of anti Festool postings
... Long time contributors going dark

I'm not suggesting people convince themselves that Festool can do no wrong, but this is the "Festool Owners Group" after all [wink]

I'll be one of the first to be critical of Festool if I think something isn't right, but I'm starting to feel that there's more people posting "don't buy Festool" messages lately than I've ever seen before.

What's the general thinking on this?

 

[semenza]

Ebb and flow of the forum. Comparison. Economics. Reality checks. Maybe some trolling.

Seth

 

[mouppe]

I agree with you Kev.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Does martin have a users group?

 

[stvrowe]

I also agree with Kev but this type of behavior is not limited to this forum or even woodworking tools. 

 

[stvrowe]

Does martin have a users group?

No - and I have actually looked for one. [embarassed]

 

[TelcoRandy]

You're right Kev and things are probably going to get worse.

Mr. Semenza brings up a valid point about economics. I know in Canada our dollar is really suffering because of oil prices being so low, huge layoffs out west of me too. Locally our housing market is on the verge of making a correction, prices will be dropping for the first time in years, condominiums aren't selling. I can only imagine things will get worse on the forum as the economies of oil rich countries get worse.

Most Festool gripes in my opinion seem to be related to price, the sticker shock prevents a lot of people from even taking a 30-day-trial so a lot of opinions are negative of the tools without even trying them.

I have a few beefs with Festool too but I've stated them in other posts.

 

[Linbro]

I'd say some people don't like/agree with the whole 'Festool can do no wrong' vibe that the forum has, and over compensate in their responses to posts.

 

[sae]

I'm noticing a lot of this of late and I've seen the mood of the forum change.

... Lots of anti Festool postings
... Long time contributors going dark

I'm not suggesting people convince themselves that Festool can do no wrong, but this is the "Festool Owners Group" after all [wink]

I'll be one of the first to be critical of Festool if I think something isn't right, but I'm starting to feel that there's more people posting "don't buy Festool" messages lately than I've ever seen before.

What's the general thinking on this?

Market landscape is changing rapidly as well. Dust extraction (and tools designed around dust extraction) is becoming much more prevalent in all markets, and you are now able to acquire what were originally the core Festool items (track saws, dust extractors, sanders, etc.) with reasonable performance at a much lower price point.

The Carvex fiasco hasn't helped the brand image either, when past Carvex users post their experiences and are pushing potential customers to the older Trion saw or even to other brands.

And as most of us here are very aware, the annual price hikes are pushing further and further out of people's willingness to pay. While the price gap to the competing Makita/DeWalt track saw used to be only $100, it's now closer to $200-250, making it harder to justify.

 

[Gwerner]

I personally don't have an issue with someone pointing out the shortcomings of any Festool product, I actually welcome it because it helps inform my purchasing decisions, but ONLY if they've actually used said product. I don't take advice from people that haven't used the tool...

 

[Holmz]

I'd say some people don't like/agree with the whole 'Festool can do no wrong' vibe that the forum has, and over compensate in their responses to posts.

I agree.

...
What's the general thinking on this?

Human nature is complex.

 

[joiner1970]

I've been thinking the same as you Kev. Seems these days we just get lots of moaning and complaints on here. I love reading all the clever posts ,people who've designed an accessory or thought of a great idea. We still get a few of those but there's way more posts complaining about faults which often turn out to be user error.

 

[Kev]

It's happening again [sad]

Look - it's a Festool owners forum ...

If there's something wrong with your Festool, sure talk about it here.

If you think a particular Festool is poorly designed or you can see an improvement .. here's the place.

You've done something awesome with your Festools - show your proud work here.

You're a regular and you just want to chew the fat with your other Festool owning buddies ... here's the place.

You're new to Festool and you want to ask questions - hundreds of experienced Festool owners are here to help.

.........

Why come here just to post "don't buy Festool, it's overpriced garbage" ??

I can't recall any post where even the most avid Festool devotee says that Festool can do no wrong .. why use statements like that to defend a hollow reason for having a dig at enthusiastic people?

Plenty of Rolex owners out there you can go and abuse for not buying a Casio ... go and troll somewhere else is my thinking.

Apply genuine and respectful criticism to the tools, company, service - fine. Cast aspersions on the people that choose to buy Festool and you can go and eat yourself as far as I'm concerned.

 

[toolfest.co.uk]

Is the FOG a little quieter than it used to be. There seem to be fewer users online, maybe I'm wrong but does admin have access to visitor numbers? Are some of the discussions that used to be here now moving to FB or other forums? Just curious.

 

[w802h]

I think the board is quieter for a few reasons.  WOW passed - he was prolific and encouraged discussion and was welcoming.  Also, the US Domino releases generated more discussion and interest than an edgebander.  Third, the trend is toward battery platforms that can run everything from a weed wacker or nail gun to a drill or saw - some of these offerings are probably garbage, but it would be nice if Festool had a more complete line. 

 

[Stephen B]

Some of my reflections on reading this thread.

1. The FOG is full of FAN BOYS who believe that Festool can do no wrong.
Have a look at some of the criticism of Festool Aust in this thread -
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/one-for-the-aussies/240/
And note that some of the criticism there is from accused Fan Boys.

2. WOW passed, and Shane left Festool USA -
Agree.

3. Users blaming the tool rather than themselves.
This one is complex, there may be some trolls, but many are new to Festool and are looking for advice. Unfortunately it is sometimes difficult to differentiate a serious concern from the troll or the just plainly incompetent. Some genuine new members may have been turned off.

4. Economic factors in some countries.
Agree. Until earlier this year the Australian $ had enjoyed parity with the U.S. $ for several years. Now it is around 70c. Despite little movement in the Euro/Aust $ exchange rate, most international trade is in U.S. $. Consequently I fear a significant increase in the Aust price for Festool products next year.

5. There has been a move away from showing work, and when work is shown it invokes few responses [with one recent exception regarding a fantastic workbench], compared to responses within a debate or responses to someone having 'difficulties' (genuine/non genuine) with their tools.

6. Other companies are now developing a systems aproach at at significantly lower costs.
Yes, have a look at Ryobi, from the garden to the workshop with one charger and battery. However do we want this from Festool?

Edit. Just read Locks 14 comment #17. Was reminded that I have a Makita 1/2 sheet sander because the Festool R2 was just two expensive for me to justify. What is nice is that the Makita accepts Festool paper.

My choice here is not a reason to attack anyone who has an R2. Like Lock I think is saying, when I purchase a Festool it is because there is no competition - Domino, or I believe it is superior to the competition - ROTEX 150 and ETS/3.
[size=8pt]
[member=49749]Locks14[/member]

 

[Locks14]

Has the OP considered that sometimes, actually quite often, it's not that Festool is too expensive. Sometimes it's a case that the Festool offering is not as good as a competitor offering regardless of price?

It's ironic that you claim to want balanced views, but the first assertion made by way of your thread title, is that you either consciously or subconsciously  think that the only reason for people not buying a Festool product over a competitor is because it's too expensive!

 

[Ajax]

I think some of it may be what I read over at other woodworking websites.  Paraphrasing: "I don't go to the FOG because its like going to a cult meeting, and that's not for me, I just like woodworking."

I agree with some of this commentary.  What turns me off most is the "if it's not Festool, it's junk" arguing that goes on.  For the record, I love my Festools.  I bought an MFT, Kapex, and RTS400 just in the last 3 months.  My decision to buy them were heavily influenced by BALANCED commentary here.  I emphasize BALANCED because fan boy posts are not helpful.

 

[Ajax]

It's ironic that you claim to want balanced views, but the first assertion made by way of your thread title, is that you either consciously or subconsciously  think that the only reason for people not buying a Festool product over a competitor is because it's too expensive!

Yep.  I could think of ten better titles for this thread.  How about:  "Where did everybody go?  How do we get them back?"

 

[Scott B.]

I think the FOG is sometimes perceived as a gathering place for people who collect tools and analyze the manufacturer ad nauseum.

It would be great if members showed the tools in use more often, and projects created using them, to help balance out that image.