The FOG should be linked from the Festool site

[peter halle]

I too have sent them an email (body copied below.

"Links to the Festool Owners Group

Over the past couple of years I have used the Festool Owners Group as a resource prior to purchasing tools.  I didn't see a link to that group on your revised website.  I am sure that is an error, but if it isn't, is it possible to know the reason why?

Thank you in advance for your assistance."

Why don't all you active members send a similar one?

Peter

 

[Daviddubya]

...Why don't all you active members send a similar one?

Peter

I emailed Shane.

 

[nickao]

That is a great way to go about it Peter, I suggested circulating a letter but this is the same type thing.  Snail mail will make more of an impact than email though, IMHO. Especially if they were to receive 1500 letters.

I wonder what the drawback to be linked from the Festool site could possibly be? I see some no's in the poll and it makes no sense to me personally. At least 7 people should have some kind of rationale for it.

If there is a good reason I would love to hear that opinion.

 

[peter halle]

Nick:

I couldn't speculate on why FOGers wouldn't like to see a linK.  From Festool's side though I could see a reason to not to link to any sites for legal reasons - not reasons of unhappiness with posts containedon that site.

FOGers:

Send Festool USA emails, letters, shoeboxes with smelly shoes, ...

Peter

 

[Daviddubya]

I would like to add to this conversation the fact that I had some email correspondence with Shane just a couple of says ago.  Shane's initial email to me was prompted by a post that I made here on the FOG about some user manuals missing from the new Festool USA site.  Shane emailed me that those manuals have been added to the new site as a result of my post.  Maybe, just maybe, the missing link to FOG on the new Festool site is an oversight?  Before speculating further, perhaps it would be a good idea to give Shane and Festool USA some time to respond.

 

[nickao]

Nickao,

The link to the FOG is not on the new website, bet then neither is that other users group site, I think maybe since we've been fighting to be able to mention problems on here maybe they just decided to leave the link off for a while. It's hardly good business practice to direct your potential customers to your main source of criticism.

I'm personally more concerned about apparent cutting off of communication with Matthew, He's getting no response to emails from them. Does this mean that this forum and it's members have lost the respect of Festool USA?

Are we just a bunch of impossible to please whiners?

(well, we are, but if Festool believes that it's another matter)

Steve the BUSINESS has to have the respect for the CLIENT, not the other way around. Otherwise the clients leave, the business is no longer in business. If clients "whine" the business must change its ways to make the client not "whine". Hopefully it was an oversight and this poll is nothing more than a showing to Festool that we like their tools and care about being an Enthusiast forum.

This linking oversight PLUS Mathew's IP not working just seem to be way to big of a coincidence. If both did not occur at the same time I might not have even thought one way or another about it.

Common sense says the FOG should be listed, even the other forum if it proves itself to be helpful to Festool should be listed(linked). If the FOG does get re-listed  Festool  will say it was an oversight no matter what. What else can they say?

 

[Ron Dunn]

Well, here's what happens when you speculate.

Although they have similar recall in my memory, there is a world of difference between "Shane" and "Sean". One does web sites, one grumbles about web site ownership and administration.

I said, "I could be very wrong here", and it looks like I was.

Ron.

 

[Steveo48]

......

Are we just a bunch of impossible to please whiners?

/quote]

Maybe so, but after all, WE pay their bills! 

If Honda made these tools, they'd be writing this down and coming back to us for more input.

 

[Steveo48]

LOL, I'd love to know who the no voters are!

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
I hjave heard back from Christian regarding the link to the FOG on the Festool USA Web site.  Christian says Festool no longer want to have links to any forums from it's site.

Although I disagree in some ways with this position (I believe the forum, current and future customers, and the company all benefit from a good connection) I understand what Christian is saying.  The forum is independent from the company.

If members disagree with Festool's decision, you are of course free to write to the company and voice your opinion.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[nickao]

Hey their loss, I believe it was that link that brought me here and in the course I spent over 10,000.00 so they would not have that money if not for the link.

I do not care of they make money that is their problem.

 

[graphex]

It looks like some posts have been removed around #18 or so, since I see Nickao replying to himself, but since I was apparently mentioned (I actually both grumble about administration and do websites, Ron) I figure I oughtta comment.

My guess is that Festool realized on or around the events of July 4, where this site was taken offline by Matthew because of his dispute with Festool about domain name ownership, possibly when they saw Matthew's posts on Sawmill Creek (that thread has since been deleted), that their endorsements would be more carefully considered moving forward. My impression of the relationship between Matthew and Festool is that Festool, a large international corporation, is wearing the kid gloves and essentially just keeping Matthew at arms length, arriving at a general cease fire.

I say "Festool is wearing the kid gloves" because they obviously could choose to fully enforce control over their intellectual property. They own this domain name and the name "Festool" as well as the copyright of all their posts here. The peace agreement leaves those things intact, and they are going above and beyond by funding the hosting of this site. If they wanted to act, I'm sure it would come off as extremely heavy-handed, as the tools they have to work with are mostly large, crushing instruments called intellectual property lawyers (read $1000/hour bit-bulls).

Honestly, I haven't done anything Festool or FOG or TF related in the past month, because I just had a baby boy born 3 weeks ago today. That unfortunately leaves me with precious little time to gripe here. If someone could email me the deleted posts, though, I'd appreciate it. Always funny to see people trying to explain their view of things in a way detrimental but incorrect about me.

 

[Brice Burrell]

graphex, I deleted my posts, Matthew had nothing to do with it. It would appear Ron Dunn did the same. I'll shoot you an e-mail.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Graphex,
Most of what you say about the trademark situation is incorrect.

Regarding deletions: not one post has been deleted from this discussion.  So everything you say that follows from that assumption is incorrect.
Regarding bannings: we have covered this in other discussions in the forum and have moved on from it.  Your assumptions on this are also incorrect.

Let's keep this on subject please.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[nickao]

Congrats on the baby graphex! I love babies, I just have a problem when they turn into teenagers, Cherish it, those kids grow up so fast  it's amazing! I guess that's why I have a range from a 25 year old  to 6 years olds and ages in between. Fun stuff today! I watched one kid run cross country in a severe rain storm, then went changed clothes and now I am at a lunch break in between 6 volleyball games , then tonight its to watch the pom pom team.

Good luck with the baby!

 

[graphex]

Sorry for insinuating that you removed posts here, Matthew. Looks like that isn't true. I've removed that from my post as well as the off-topic items.

I can see how Sean and Shane can get confused. Unfortunately, I'm not the one with the green name tag on. Fortunately, (or unfortunately depending on your perspective) I still post on the FOG. Unfortunately Shane doesn't (last post on June 12).

Out of curiosity, what did I say about the domain name situation that wasn't correct, Matthew? You did take the forums down around July 4th and you did post on Sawmill Creek opining that you disagreed with Festool's position after that, right?

I think all I said about that topic in my previous post in addition to that was my opinion of what Festool might think of the situation, and how it relates to the subject of the possibility that there is a correlation between the domain name situation and the choice Festool made to exclude a link to this site. So, the subject of the thread is, "The FOG should be linked from the Festool site" and my opinion is that, as exemplified by the events on July 4 (or was it 3) Festool might have had to re-evaluate their position on openness and exchange with this particular forum.

And, hey, they're saying they're just being consistent with all forums and not singling out this one, so that must feel good. Kid gloves don't hurt too bad eh?

 

[graphex]

Congrats on the baby graphex! I love babies, I just have a problem when they turn into teenagers, Cherish it, those kids grow up so fast  it's amazing! I guess that's why I have a range from a 25 year old  to 6 years olds and ages in between. Fun stuff today! I watched one kid run cross country in a severe rain storm, then went changed clothes and now I am at a lunch break in between 6 volleyball games , then tonight its to watch the pom pom team.

Good luck with the baby!

Thanks, man. It is a lot of work, and I don't consider myself much of a "baby" person. I think I'm more prepared for the challenges of boyhood and adolescence than I am for this infancy stage. Maybe my opinions will change after a few months (or a decade) but this little guy is just lucky he is so cute, cause it is a lot of work and time I'd rather spend woodworking! Maybe I'll cherish the > 6 month old time a little more than the constant feeding/diaper/screaming bit I'm doing right now.

 

[nickao]

Post a picture of that little wonder! Preferably swaddled up on an MFT 

My wife likes the kids when they are older too, so for us it has worked out. I take them as babies she takes them when they are old enough for school activities.

 

[Gary Nichols]

OK, I think if you look at this from Festool USA's position, you may see their situation in a different perspective. They had three choices: link one or the other, link both, or link neither...... If they link to either one or the other but not both, then they're seen as taking sides; sure economic suicide..... If they link both, they still risk the same in a way, plus they acknowledge/condone the forming of the breakaway user group. The safest choice was to not list any user groups at all. Not exactly a perfect solution, but the best, most tactful course. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't... a no-win situation.

If Festool USA really wanted to kill this group off, they could play the trademark/copyright card and make Matthew relinquish the name. The fact that they haven't suggests to me feel that they're still supporting us/Matthew in their own silent way.

As to why Matthew can't access the website, I didn't know websites had the ability to single out particular people and deny access like that. But what do I know, I'm just a Mac user. Personally I find it hard to believe they'd actually do so. Such a practice would not hold them in good light with the members of this group, 4609 at last count. Too petty for such a fine company as Festool. There has to be another explanation; Just wish I knew what it was.

Personally, I feel that in light of what has taken place the past few months, we're all a little jumpy and quick to fly off to conclusions, good or bad. Expect the worst and you won't be disappointed.... let's hope for better... and see how this plays out.

Gary Nichols

 

[bonesbr549]

I've been out of it for a while and just got back in to the site.  I personally don't care about the link.  I mean its their choice.  I can respect their decision to not post any links.  This way as multiple forums come up they can stay neutral and not appear to give favorite status to any particular site.  I see it as being fair.  I just don't get the big deal.  Do we need this link for validation or something.  I would love for us to make it a week with out some major brew ha ha.  I don't think it can be done.