The new Mirka CEROS sander

[GaryB]

I finally got to have a go with the new Mirka CEROS brushless DC sander today and I'm impressed.

Smooth, powerful and easy to control. The thing has a low center of gravity and is a very nice shape to hold which means that it goes exactly where you direct it and doesn't try to veer off course. If you want to add a little more pressure, using it sideways by cupping the body in one hand and gripping the cord/hose in the other gives a lot of control. The high amperage gives it huge torque and it was very difficult to slow the thing down with pressure. It showed absolutely no signs of bucking about or grabbing and the lack of pad damper allows it to sand optimally leaving little to no obvious swirling marks. The dust collection is first rate and the pad is nice and firm so it should be great for sanding at edges and flattening surfaces. It's also very quiet in use, unlike the Rotex which screams loudly at all times. Despite having a fairly big orbit there was minimal vibration transmitted which is doubly impressive given it's weight and speed.

Overall, the Mirka was a joy to use and I think I'd happily trade my Rotex for it. Sadly the one downside is price. At $500 It's a bit too much for me right now. I think there is a very good chance of me getting one at a later date as this is by far the best sander I've laid hands on. Sheer stock removal is probably somewhat lower than Rotex mode so I can't say it's a full replacement for the Rotex but with 30 grit I can see this thing doing some serious damage none the less. Another nice thing, the sanding pads for the 6" model are fully festool hole-compatible and the Abranet HD sanding sheets are seriously nice. They have a waffle-sheet like construction and stiff, again, helping with surface flattening. These come in coarse grits only and the range goes up to the very fine 4,000 grit foam back pads I believe. Anyway, very nice machine.

I foresee this sander being quite a hit.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

I was just looking at this in the Popular Woodworking magazine received today.  It was the first page ad, and they also had a review.  It looks so much like the LEX sanders.  Too bad the Systainer screams DeWalt colors! 

Anyway, not something for my needs.  But I was wondering if this is finally the "holy grail" of merging a high amp/torque DC motor (usually the realm of cordless tools) with an A/C converter.  The transformer doesn't look huge, but it also isn't tiny.  So you get all the compactness and power of DC, with the unlimited run-time.  Sweet.

 

[GaryB]

the transformer is substantial but is normally tucked away, and the cable/hose doesn't feel overly bulky despite the size of the cable. It's fairly supple and hangs low so doesn't affect balance. The Yellow color is a bit loud but it should make the sander easier to find  [wink] It has to be close to Holy Grail with current technology. There are few working parts to wear, it's small and lightweight, well behaved and powerful beyond it's rating due to being brushless. I can't think of another electric sander that would compete for control and ease of use. If I had a spare $500 available, I'd snap one up.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Gary, I've not read up on the CEROS, do the 5" and 6" use the same transformer, in other words, do you only need one transformer if you have both sanders?  I'm guessing you can't run more than one sander on a transformer.

 

[GaryB]

As far as I could tell the sanders are the same except for the pad. The 5" does have a more Mirka specific hole pattern in the sanding sheets though, so I'm not sure if the festool 5" paper is an exact fit. Due to the high current delivery I think only one tool per transfo is allowed. I'm just about to head back to woodcraft so I'll double check all this.

 

[GaryB]

Went and had a chat with the rep and took the things apart to see the differences.

The pads are swappable but it's not workable to use other pads. The dust shroud sizes are different and the counterbalance weights are about an ounce different so using pads other than the right one introduces a lot of vibration. So although either the 5 or 6" pads will fit only the correct pad will work properly.

The transformer has the single outlet and the cable is fixed to the sander. The actual sander is the same from the dust shroud up. The only decision is whether to get the 5 or 6" model.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Went and had a chat with the rep and took the things apart to see the differences.

The pads are swappable but it's not workable to use other pads. The dust shroud sizes are different and the counterbalance weights are about an ounce different so using pads other than the right one introduces a lot of vibration. So although either the 5 or 6" pads will fit only the correct pad will work properly.

The transformer has the single outlet and the cable is fixed to the sander. The actual sander is the same from the dust shroud up. The only decision is whether to get the 5 or 6" model.

Okay thanks Gary.  Do you know if you can buy the sander only if you wanted both 5" and 6" sanders?

 

[nickao]

A few have mentioned the cost, it is a lot, but really not much more than Festool prices.

This 6" Mirka is on my to get list soon for sure.  

IMHO, this will never replace a Rotex which is rotary(partially anyway), looks like a nice complenent to it though.

 

[billg71]

I had a chance to play with one today at the woodworking show and I'm itching to get mine(UPS says Tuesday  [big grin]). The rep says you can use any 5/16 threaded pad with it. The counterbalance is an issue but the sales rep I talked to at Wood Werks when I ordered mine says he sells a lot of the smaller pads to customers who bought the 6" and nobody's reported anyproblems. But the counterweight and skirts are available so if you want a full conversion from one size to the other it's doable.

Gary, I didn't bother to check about the cords, I just assumed they were removable since they offer a 30' cord as an accessory. Not that I would have any use for a 30' cord, but is it a big deal to remove it? If so that'd be a major bummer since I usually sleeve the cord and vac hose together and don't see that combo fitting in the Systainer.... 

I was really impressed with the unit, it's easy to handle, REALLY lightweight and quiet to boot. I set the unit up to max RPM, started sanding and tried to apply pressure to slow it down: it finally did, but it took a lot more pressure than I'd ever actually use in a real-world application. DC works exceptionally well with the Abranet discs but that's to be expected, I've been very happy with DC on the same discs using them on my P-C RA sander. They had it hooked up to a Festool vac, BTW.

Brice, I dunno if the sander's available without the associated gizmos, your best bet would be to call either Wood Werks or Mirka USA and ask. The sales rep at Wood Werks said they were selling them as fast as they could get them, my guess is that it might be a long wait for a stripped-down version, but that's just a guess...

Gary, thanks for the info. I'll have mine next week and will post once I've had a chance to put it through its paces.

Best,
Bill

P.S. As far as the cost, being able to say "I could have saved some money and bought a Festool"? Priceless... [wink]

 

[GaryB]

Great news, Bill

I'll have to wait for a while to get one myself and I couldn't get into things as much as I wanted as the shop was crowded, the rep was very helpful anyway. I didn't ask about the cord removal as it looks completely integrated but I imaging they made it fairly easy to swap if they are offering bigger cords. It looked like it was solidly part of the controller block so I assumed it was permanent. Guess we'll find out later. There weren't any stand-alone sanders there, just kits with the transfo and they were all gone aside from one 5" model by lunchtime. I don't think anyone will manage to slow it down in normal usage, you need a lot of pressure to make a dent in the speed and I don't think it will help with sanding anyway. It's nice to know it's quite the powerhouse though. I see a surge in DC brushless coming  [big grin]

Hmm, a lightweight DC brushless low profile 500W router would be *very* nice.

 

[shokunin]

I bought the Ceros 650, 6" 5.0mm orbital and I love it!!  Still getting used to the paddle vs the festool triggers and switches.  So easy to control, low profile and smooth.  The abranet paper is also excellent.  I ended up selling the rotex, ets 125, and the 150mm.  I can get by with a RAS 115 and the mirka, hand planes for the rest. 

Too bad it came in a classic yellow systainer and not a T-loc.

 

[GaryB]

Yeah, it's a distinct possibility my rotex and 125 may be also going to help fund the Mirka.

 

[flair woodworks]

I bought the Ceros 650, 6" 5.0mm orbital and I love it!!  Still getting used to the paddle vs the festool triggers and switches.  So easy to control, low profile and smooth.  The abranet paper is also excellent.   I ended up selling the rotex, ets 125, and the 150mm.  I can get by with a RAS 115 and the mirka, hand planes for the rest.  

That's the combination I'm leaning towards too, though likely the 5" Ceros.  I don't have any power sanders at the moment.

 

[Brice Burrell]

....I see a surge in DC brushless coming  [big grin]...

That's what I was thinking as I was reading this thread.  Now that I think about it, I believe I read somewhere a comment about a transformer built-in to the vac would be nice if this technology catches on.  I can see it now, the new Festool CT/T(ransformer).   

 

[waynelang2001]

....I see a surge in DC brushless coming  [big grin]...

That's what I was thinking as I was reading this thread.  Now that I think about it, I believe I read somewhere a comment about a transformer built-in to the vac would be nice if this technology catches on.  I can see it now, the new Festool CT/T(ransformer).     

How about festool build the transformer into the systainer?? There would still be enough space then to store the sander with a few accessories inside..............Have a plug going from the systainer to the CT then an out for the sander on the systainer.........COPY RIGHT PLEASE!! [big grin]

 

[GaryB]

I had another look at the sander end and it didn't look like the wire was a quick swap affair.

 

[billg71]

I had another look at the sander end and it didn't look like the wire was a quick swap affair.

I'm pretty sure you're right, I looked at some pics and it looks pretty well made in there. And the 30' cord is called an "extension cord" and looks like it has a transformer connection on both ends.

I've just been spoiled with the Plug-It cords, I think all tools ought to have them.

Thanx,
Bill

 

[shokunin]

The cord is hardwired and the cable is quite thick.  Since it runs on DC it needs larger AWG wire in order to prevent voltage loss at long cord lengths.  

You can always make your own kind of plug-it with the Ceros, they use a standard Neutrik Speakon connector to the transformer box. which you can buy another female Speakon cable plug.  They don't make a cable "male" end (they sell chasis mount), but one could easily build a housing around the chasis mount.  Or have the female plug on both ends and use Neutrik Speakon coupler.  You could probably get away with using any other connector such as XLR...

 

[shokunin]

I just saw the Mirka "extension" cord and they have a Male neutrik cable plug, haven't seen that before.  Must be another NAINA Neutrik product.

It makes it easier to make your own plug-it conversion.  Hmmm... I may have to order one just to try.

 

[junk731]

I just got a demo setup to try this sander for a day and the rep gave this website to check out:  http://www.mirka-ceros.com/CEROS_home.html

John