The question on everybody's lips...

[SMJoinery]

Can the Domino 500 make internal pass doors?
Did a fair bit of research on this and even made a few test pieces to prove that in theory the domino 500 can be used to build a solid and stable internal pass door.
Spoke to my client who we do a lot with and we agreed to a full test. Only caveat is if it fails I will replace at my cost but won't look daft as they appreciate the "pioneer" spirit in me! [big grin]
Door is 1015mm wide, 2100mm high and 44mm thick.
It's solid poplar with 18mm MRMDF panel and pine beads.
The job history is that we have been removing a dark stain / polish / varnish from the entire house in prep for painting white. Existing door was felt / foam covered servant pass door (think of all those trays being carried to dining room) to prevent damage.
Rails are 100mm wide, 220mm mid rail and 190 bottom rail.
I used 8mm X 50mm dominos all in tight setting.
Set at two depths and used 4 at each joint in rails except bottom rail which got 6 and mid rail that got 8.
Glue was Titebond 3 and clamped with bessys for 12hrs.
MRMDF was cut to be a tight fit and glued in.
The beads were all glued in (as I thought I'll take all the help I can get) and pinned in with 32mm brads.
Door is hung with 3 X 150mm brass hinges.
Some will say I'm mad, others will point and say that's him, he's the mad one!! [tongue]
Stay tuned for updates as I'm back to the job on Monday and back for another sanding phase on 4 Jan 2016.
Now the bad news, I took some build photos but can't find them and may not have saved them hence the written description above.
Sorry.
Any comments / questions will be welcomed as always.
Scott

 

[Doug S]

I made a similar 6 panel door for a nice big old house last week using my df700. It somehow didn't seem right and I ended up putting some shallow stub mortices in the outside of the stiles and gluing some short bits of end grain in so it looked like there were full length through tenons! Think I might be the mad one  [blink]

Doug

 

[SMJoinery]

I made a similar 6 panel door for a nice big old house last week using my df700. It somehow didn't seem right and I ended up putting some shallow stub mortices in the outside of the stiles and gluing some short bits of end grain in so it looked like there were full length through tenons! Think I might be the mad one  [blink]

Doug

Ha ha Doug I think It might be a tie!
This all started with a 6 panel door we made with a cmt orange router set.
All worked out great, no dominos use etc only glue but it added a bead detail as a flush panel and this door is raised beads.
I then found a report on structural strength and the rail & stile was low on the results!  They tested a domino which rated higher then the rail & stile but they only used one 8mm domino!
Made a few tests etc and tested them unconventionally and decided the only way forward was a full test and voila.
I can see a 700 in my future as I have 7 solid oak doors to make for a job in April. Using the one third rule for a 44mm door is 14mm so the 14x140 domino looks like a great benefit to me. 

 

[jacko9]

I have the XL700 (and the DF500) Domino machines and for the oak doors, I agree that the larger machine would be the way to go but, I would explore cutting the mortise wider than the standard Domino Tenons and making your own slip tenons and pinning the joint.

Jack

 

[SMJoinery]

I have the XL700 (and the DF500) Domino machines and for the oak doors, I agree that the larger machine would be the way to go but, I would explore cutting the mortise wider than the standard Domino Tenons and making your own slip tenons and pinning the joint.

Jack

Hi Jack
Thanks for the input

Can I ask why you think that's the case instead of a series of dominos?
Are you proposing to use the domino to "stitch drill" a wider combined slot / mortice?
I think I'd only go Sipo for an exterior door but can see a benefit to using oak dominos in an oak door in lieu of the beech.

 

[jacko9]

I like a wider mortise to get more glue surface since the end grain to end grain is not a very strong bond.  Here's a link to making the wider cuts;

http://www.halfinchshy.com/2012/04/oversized-mortises-with-festool-domino.html

As far as your exterior doors if they are being made from white oak, I would use that for my slip tenons.  White Oak is a very good wood for exterior applications and gluing with Titebond III you should have no troubles.  For the bottom rail to stile joint I would cut two mortises about 50mm wide with a space in-between.

I should clarify, my comments are about the future exterior doors not the pass through door that you have already executed quite well.

Jack

 

[Mahomo59]

No comment on the structural integrity...but good looking door, well executed. I'm sure it will be fine, I applause your honesty with the customer.  Imagine how many guys wing it, take the payment and turn their phone off. Massive fan of honesty is the best policy. Good effort

 

[9Fingers]

I tried to find out if the Domino 500 would be sufficient to build a number of interior doors. Like yourself, I decided to try and make one and hope for the best. It's been about 2 years and it still looks as good as the day I installed it. No sagging at all. Here are a couple of pics. I used poplar for the frame, and mdf for the panel. Half inch I think. I can measure the door for you if you'd like. Good luck with your build. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[9Fingers]

One more pic of the styles to go with the rails.

 

[andyman]

I leant my xl to the joinery shop opposite they just made 67 doors with it using 14mm Domino's

 

[Holmz]

How much are 28 dominos?
Are some of the those slots big slots?
Do they no go in with normal t'oight ones?

 

[9Fingers]

I'm not sure how much it was for the dominos but I figured if I were to put the time into the build, I didn't want to chance it failing. Hence the extra dominos. As for the size of the slots, yes some of those are the larger slots. I used the top and bottom dominos of the door as locators and the rest were oversized to make assemble easier. As you've already mentioned, there were a lot of dominos and I didn't want to run into a problem during the assembly.

 

[greg mann]

Don't underestimate how much strength you are gaining by glueing in the mdf panels. That will increase racking resistance by a huge amoun.

 

[Bigchasbroon]

Scott you're welcome to borrow my 700 anytime. It doesn't get that much use anyway.

 

[SMJoinery]

Don't underestimate how much strength you are gaining by glueing in the mdf panels. That will increase racking resistance by a huge amoun.

Thanks for commenting.
Yes, this was a key point in my planning of the build.
It equates to having a diagonal brace or as if the door is made from a full sheet of materials.
On the door which is painted the panel can be man made.
The other doors I have committed to in April are oak.
If I make the panel from solid oak joined boards I will have to leave expansion room.
Alternatively I will need to use an oak veneer board (ply or mdf) and gain the racking resistance....or make a composite panel of 6mm ply between two thin 6mm solid board layers. The "sandwich" can be glued together to get the best of both worlds.
It's still in the "due diligence" side of my workshop! [big grin]

 

[SMJoinery]

I tried to find out if the Domino 500 would be sufficient to build a number of interior doors. Like yourself, I decided to try and make one and hope for the best. It's been about 2 years and it still looks as good as the day I installed it. No sagging at all. Here are a couple of pics. I used poplar for the frame, and mdf for the panel. Half inch I think. I can measure the door for you if you'd like. Good luck with your build. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks for your comments.
Great to hear the door is still looking great.

 

[SMJoinery]

No comment on the structural integrity...but good looking door, well executed. I'm sure it will be fine, I applause your honesty with the customer.  Imagine how many guys wing it, take the payment and turn their phone off. Massive fan of honesty is the best policy. Good effort

No comment on the structural integrity...but good looking door, well executed. I'm sure it will be fine, I applause your honesty with the customer.  Imagine how many guys wing it, take the payment and turn their phone off. Massive fan of honesty is the best policy. Good effort

Thank you.
My reputation and integrity are precious to me and as you say honesty is the best policy. I find on my type of work the clients really care about their homes. Some of their homes are historic and they all understand their duty to preserve and maintain the heritage. This duty is also precious to me and now also my apprentice.
I know some trades won't care and I suppose in some types of projects no harm will come from their detachment.
Have a great Xmas and prosperous 2016.

 

[SMJoinery]

Scott you're welcome to borrow my 700 anytime. It doesn't get that much use anyway.

Thanks [member=19325]bigchas[/member] that's really nice of you to offer.
I can see one on the horizon. I planned the next tool binge to be upgrading the hvlp spray kit but it's about same price as the 700, so....

How is work with you?...developments going ok?

 

[Bigchasbroon]

Ye after 12 months we got the water main diversion complete. So it's full steam a head on the second build. Although the weather is against us. It seems to have p*****d down for weeks.
We have been building a garage/workshop at balfarg. I'm pretty jealous of it and it's made me long for a decent workshop space. It's 7m by 12m with the roof carrying on another 6/7m or so to form a carport. The roof is done with attic trusses so there's loads of space upstairs. I'll need to post some pictures.

 

[Rob-GB]

5yrs on and no call backs to these domino build doors
so I reckon your mdf panelled ones are more than good to go. [big grin]

Rob.