The Value of Work

[Vindingo]

Another possibility - he could have oversold himself to his boss and may be in a jam. You can offer to advise and guide, but that is obviously up to you. Just my $.02.....

I think this may be the situation, as my other buddy alluded to that when we spoke.  Though, I didn't really care for the accusation of arrogance for turning down his offer to "help me out."  

I also think it is more ignorance based on his part than malice. He jumped in the deep end and didn't know how to swim.

 

[tiralie]

This is a tough one.
If a friend of mine asked me to do this I would probably tell him I was too busy to help full time but give him an hour or so of my time in a discussing or working through approaches to the problems. If he was insulted by that then, well maybe he wasn't such a good friend.
I don't think you should take his offer of $100.00 day personally. Like Peter (Tool Nut) says, there is always someone who will work cheaper.
The laws of supply and demand set price. Low demand and high supply in a market, always wreaks havoc when you have bills to pay.
It's a good thing you are busy, and otherwise in demand. You have the luxury of saying no thank-you.
Tim

 

[Theshipstore]

To me the Value of Work is equal to the Value of Self.
I know my skills and what I went thru to obtain them, I let people know up front my worth and if they feel I am not worth what I ask well, it is what it is.
If they as customers ( or friends ) don't understand this then they have to look elsewhere

Sal

 

[ericbuggeln]

Vindingo, forward your boy a link to this thread and have him forward it to his employer. They'll understand. See you tomorrow, Eric

 

[Steve R]

Another possibility - he could have oversold himself to his boss and may be in a jam. You can offer to advise and guide, but that is obviously up to you. Just my $.02.....

I think this may be the situation, as my other buddy alluded to that when we spoke.  Though, I didn't really care for the accusation of arrogance for turning down his offer to "help me out."  

I also think it is more ignorance based on his part than malice. He jumped in the deep end and didn't know how to swim.

Vindingo,

I have watched and read your posts of the work you have done for. I'm glad there are people like you here that are compassionate enough to be concerned if you did the right thing. In my humble opinion you did the right thing. I just had the opportunity to drive two eight hour trips bring my 87 year old father up to two of his granddaughters graduation parties one High School and on College. At 87 he is just 3 years retired as he just liked doing what he did. We talked about many things. One was just how far $100 went today. He started talking and said you know my Doctor, Lawyer, Car mechanic, etc. all charge more than $100 per hour for their time. He went on to say what he couldn't understand was why these guys that couldn't do what the others did thought their rates for their work was fair but the other guys were over charging. He started laughing and said what do they think food, housing, retirement, education, cars, and the price of gas cost less for the guy they don't want to pay the same rate they charge?

Vindingo, keep up the good work and always have compassion for others, but keep a foot grounded in what is right for you.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[mastercabman]

The worst customer/client are:  FRIENDS AND FAMILY!!!

 

[Wooden Lungs]

Yes you were right to value your time and not do the work for your friend.

Maybe he was just naive to offer such a low amount ( 100 dollars is about 65 sterling here which is an insult really).

Clients dont just pay for your time... they pay for all the experience you have acquired over the years in your chosen trade.

I was told once 'if you work for no money you will never be out of work'.

 

[b_m_hart]

The emphasis on "cash" is what really gets me here.  As if you'll just take the money under the table, thus inflating the "payday" since you don't have to pay taxes out of it. Hoo-wee $100 whole dollars?  Really?  I can't even get my house cleaned for that small of a sum of money, let alone have someone who is actually skilled at a particular trade come and do something as major as INSTALLING FREAKING WINDOWS.  You should tell your friend to let his employer know that if he has any strawberries that he needs picked, you'd do it for $100 / day, and that if he wants to have those windows hung properly, you can discuss that in greater detail.

 

[Kev]

The emphasis on "cash" is what really gets me here.  As if you'll just take the money under the table, thus inflating the "payday" since you don't have to pay taxes out of it. Hoo-wee $100 whole dollars?  Really?  I can't even get my house cleaned for that small of a sum of money, let alone have someone who is actually skilled at a particular trade come and do something as major as INSTALLING FREAKING WINDOWS.  You should tell your friend to let his employer know that if he has any strawberries that he needs picked, you'd do it for $100 / day, and that if he wants to have those windows hung properly, you can discuss that in greater detail.

I'm a professional strawberry picker ... and I earn $300 a day  [big grin]

Not making light of the issue here though. At some point you need to put a "value" on the friendship ... that can be tricky.

 

[John Stevens]

After reading the responses, I feel like less of a jerk for not helping him.

You still consider him your friend, but he didn't treat you like you were his friend.  Hope you're clear that you care about him more than he cares about you.  What you do with that info is your business, but I hope you use it to protect yourself.

Just FWIW, down here in suburban Philly the rate for a good carpenter (not a foreman, just a guy to work on a crew doing a structural repair on my home) was $45/hr. back in 2008.  I'm sure it's more today because gas and food are so much more expensive, and whatever it is down here, I'm sure the price increases every mile you go closer to NYC.

Regards,

John

 

[greenMonster]

this was your first mistake...
"uhh... do I need to bring my tools, or will I be standing there holding the window?"

 

[waho6o9]

What an insult. 

You have better things to do my friend.  [smile]

 

[Tinker]

Hi Vin, It was great meeting you @ ToolNut yesterday.  I'm really sorry that you could not dip into your pocket and pay for a domino 500 for me to take home with me.  Friend!!!  [scared]  [poke]

You did the right thing and i think you should stay FAR AWAY from that company.  The owner is heading for big problems down the road if he is hiring supervisory help with zilch experience and knowledge. Sooner or later, he will be liable to a lawsuit for shoddy work.  do you think for a minute he would not drag all who had a hand in his "problem" into the action?  Your "friend" is just as bad.  Granted, he is ignorant of real wages and quality work.  He should have asked how much you would charge first.  He is not smart enough to ask such a question.  Stay Away Joe 

Sooner, or later, that outfit will be under the microscope and you might find yourself on the plate should you go along with them.  With all of the new regulations coming up over next couple of years, it will be tough enough to survive without having such "friends"

You are a lot nicer guy than i might have been in such a situation.

Many moons ago, i had a couple of friends who would ask me for an estimate to DO a job for them.  I gave honest estimates and next thing i knew, they were doing the jobs themselves.  I would gladly have helped them work out the estimates for nothing and even helped with the logistical info had they been honest.  In both cases, the next time they asked me to figure a job, i gave them a real lowball estimate and made sure i was real busy should they have called me to do the jobs.  In both cases, they took a real beating on the jobs and hated me forever after.  "Sorry guys, I must have made a mistook in my figuring."  My mistook was in figuring they were "friends."

Stick to you first impression, Vin.  You were right on, maybe even too generous.
Tinker

 

[JLB builders LLC]

For Friends I don't really charge, well a case of guinness depending on what it is. When it comes to some mindless labor on the weekend or for someone I have done work for before and I know they are on a tight budget with kids etc I charge a min of $200 a day for 7-8 hrs. This is usually when I have a good idea that there is more work in the future or they have passed on my name and I have received more work and expanded my customer base.

For this friend of yours who is working for an idiot contractor, that one of us on this board ends up going behind and fixing his crap and having to charge the poor home owner more money to do it right, he should collect his checks while he can and look for someone else to work for. He won't stay in biz long like that. These are the contractors that piss me off, (1) Screwing up the idea of what a contractor is to home owners (2) because I end up fixing there crap (although that is job security for me) and (3)  They could hire me for a little more money, had it done right and still saved in the end.

Thanks for not "helping"

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I do not discount my labor.  If a friend wants my help, they have to pay full price.  If they don't like it, find someone else.

My parents are the only one's who get free labor.

 

[jacko9]

Charging labor with friends depends on weather or not friends return like wise labor with their expertise or comparable help.  Friends that ask for help without reciprocation because they know your "expert" in a certain skill without some sort of "quid pro quo" might just be taking advantage of you.  Of course beer goes a long way [wink]

 

[Sparktrician]

I have two friends that I will do the free thing with, largely because I know that when I need help it's readily given.  We all keep an eye on what I will call "equivalent hours" so nobody gets far out of balance.  My kid gets labor for free, but has to house and feed me when I'm at his place.  Everyone else is told up front that this is how I make my living, that I will charge them a fair price for what they get, and that if this is not acceptable to find someone else and see what they get.  I briefly dated a woman (quite a few years ago) who knew I worked in construction.  She made the mistake of thinking that after a ten hour day I would come to her place and remodel her home for free.  Needless to say, that relationship was rapidly terminated. 

 

 

[JLB builders LLC]

I have two friends that I will do the free thing with, largely because I know that when I need help it's readily given.  We all keep an eye on what I will call "equivalent hours" so nobody gets far out of balance. 

I briefly dated a woman (quite a few years ago) who knew I worked in construction.  She made the mistake of thinking that after a ten hour day I would come to her place and remodel her home for free.  Needless to say, that relationship was rapidly terminated. 

 

Yeah the friends are only 2.  Their parents helped me as well as they did when I was 15 living on my own. They did a lot and I feel I could never repay them. Still great friends after 28 and 30+ years. Those friends and families are few and far between.

Beer is good, People are Crazy  lol

Had the same thing with a women. $35,000 bathroom remodel…Repaired all the crap here kids messed up like doors, holes in the wall etc... and gave her lots of cash. In the end it was cheaper to live on my own and she only sees her side soooo…. lol

 

[JeromeM]

For me I have just 2 daily rates. $300 or free. (this is for wood work) my day job pays a bit more.

I know there are many that charge less and they are welcome to the problems that come with the jobs. At least if I get problems (I seldom do) I am being paid enough to be happy to fix them.

 

[Eli]

Just for reference, I generally charge $45-50 an hour, but I almost never have to deal with materials. Most of my clients want to get those themselves, and any problems I run into installing, waiting for delivery, or making do with substandard crap works out to more time spent, which is more money.