The visit to Henderson: Did we drink the kool-aid?*

[Ned]

I saw this morning a post that said that recently the "scent of marketing" could be detected on FOG.  I can only interpret that to mean posts from the Festool Fantasy Camp attendees, which are both recent and pro-Festool.

Full disclosure:  As some of you have suspected, Festool paid our expenses, including transportation, lodging, and food.  They did not pay for my dog's boarding expense, which will be reflected in bitter anti-Festool posts to follow. 

I'm sorry if we're enthusiastic, but we already liked Festool a little before we went, and the opportunity of hearing the details from those who know, actually handling new tools and trying them out, well, I guess it just went to our heads.

Speaking of heads, ours are fairly hard--especially Per's.    I witnessed Per's approach-avoidance thing with the big router, and his realization that it really was safe.  I don't think that change of heart could be bought, or influenced by a steak dinner.  I witnessed Brice dealing with the Kapex--he knew what he wanted, and he got that information, and now he's convinced.  I don't think giving the man a Festool cap changed his mind, or that he felt obliged to pay for his trip by writing gushing posts here afterwards.  These are pros.

The rest of us aren't pros, but hobbyists can be hard-headed, too.  Since I don't have nearly as much experience as Brice, I'd expect the reader to take anything I said like "The Kapex is the finest jobsite saw in the world" with a grain of salt.  OTOH, among the hobbyists you've got a lawyer and a couple of engineer wannabes.  Many of us get paid to find defects, and do it in our spare time for fun as well.  None of us were bought, either.

If Festool would like to influence us in the future, I'd like to make a suggestion:  Stripper.  Deltex pasties.

Ned

*Hundreds of people at Jonestown died after drinking a sweet poisoned drink on the orders of their leader.  "Kool-aid drinker" has come to mean someone who is zombie-like in their adherence and devotion to a point of view.

 

[Eli]

That's bullshit. I've decided I hate the Kapex until I get a Festool hat. ;D

 

[joraft]

... As some of you have suspected, Festool paid our expenses, including transportation, lodging, and food. 

... I'm sorry if we're enthusiastic, but we already liked Festool a little before we went, and the opportunity of hearing the details from those who know, actually handling new tools and trying them out, well, I guess it just went to our heads.

Okay, Ned, I am jealous that you guys got to go, and I didn't. In fact, I'm now bitter and I hate you all for being chosen. And at least one of you could have shown the courtesy to offer me your spot.

But let's face facts, Festool couldn't send us all, and the choices of who should go were good ones. The guys picked all contribute here regularly. express themselves well, and have strong opinions that are respected.

You're sorry for returning bursting with enthusiasm? I wonder if any red-blooded Festoolian could attend such an event and come back any other way. Personally, I've enjoyed reading everything reported by the attendees and I hope to see more.

John

 

[Eli]

I wonder if any red GREEN-blooded Festoolian could attend such an event and come back any other way.

 

[joraft]

I wonder if any red GREEN-blooded Festoolian could attend such an event and come back any other way.

Of course! I stand corrected. 

John

 

[Fred West]

Ned, John, Eli and everyone else, I cannot imagine going to something like this and not coming back screaming about the excellence of these tools, company, and everything else associated with Festool. Forget the strippers, nothing could keep me from singing the praises of a trip such as this unless of course I actually were to find something wrong. If you look at my signature you will see a fair amount of Festools listed. I may not be the best woodowrker around but I use the heck out of my tools and NO tools have ever stood up to that use like these have.

So, Ned, Brice and everyone else that attended PLEASE keep singing the praises and tell me more. Fred

 

[mhch]

I saw this morning a post that said that recently the "scent of marketing" could be detected on FOG.  I can only interpret that to mean posts from the Festool Fantasy Camp attendees, which are both recent and pro-Festool.

I expressed that feeling, as well as some other did, f the "monthly contest" thread.
  I did not feel anything like that from the posts related with the Festool Camp.
But after seeing the contest thread, a number of memories popped up in
my h ead, and I ended up thinking "this really sounds like what the marketing
folks would have done in each of the very competitive software companies
I worked for".

So I went to say it with no particular other intent than expressing what I felt,
as part of the "open atmosphere" of this forum, which is really like a "virtual
village pub where I go everyday listening and chatting with the locals".

Absolutely no judgement or any other thought behind. Period.

I never suspected anyone to be "bought" or "biased"  and I'm very sorry
if some of you may interpret my words as a personal remark. It was not.
Believe me, I very much appreciate the various extra manuals and web
pages related with Festool products,  including those which have clearly
been commissionned by Festool USA. They add a lot of value to
the tools (and the provided manuals  )

As we say in French: "no smoke without a fire" .... That does not mean
there have to be "flames"  ;D

 

[Qwas]

mhch, don't feel bad. I have been PMed about others having the same feelings and I have felt the same.

At first I was thinking it was jealously, but I'm not so sure. The FOG seems to have a different feeling since the "Las Vegas 7".

But no worries, between you, me, Semenza, Fred, and Nickao we will get the place back to normal!

I'm hoping it's just the excitement that a trip like that would surely bring to any of us and nothing else. And I really do think Festool picked the right 7 people to go.

 

[Qwas]

I don't want anybody to take my post the wrong way. Imagine getting that phone call... Festool wants to show off their new tools to YOU, before the release date. By the way, we are taking you to the training center with some of our experts to show what these new tools can do. Wow!!!

Now you get there. The training center is equipped with every Festool you could ever want. And you get to play with all of them (we've already been told about some tricks they were shown with the dust collectors and drills). Not only play with them, but share your thoughts with Festool AND 6 more of your peers that you never even dreamed possible to meet, let alone all together and share the experience with.

I don't know about the rest of you, but there isn't a chain heavy enough to keep on Earth after that.

 

[Dan Clermont]

mhch, don't feel bad. I have been PMed about others having the same feelings and I have felt the same.

At first I was thinking it was jealously, but I'm not so sure. The FOG seems to have a different feeling since the "Las Vegas 7".

But no worries, between you, me, Semenza, Fred, and Nickao we will get the place back to normal!

I'm hoping it's just the excitement that a trip like that would surely bring to any of us and nothing else. And I really do think Festool picked the right 7 people to go.

Ya Know, I was quite honored to be selected for the Festool Fantasy Camp weekend, I thought others were more deserving but who was I to pass up this oppurtunity! We all took time off work to attend this camp, most people lost two days salary or took two days off work. We took notes for ourselves and have been trying to pass along as much information as possible to other FOG members such as the notes on how to remove a cutter from the Domino, or the extra suction created by hooking up two vacs in series, etc. We are here to share with others and hope later on in life someone will ask a question we discussed during the camp and we will be able to help out!!

I remember Steve Bace asking Per how he would swing a 3" router bit in a router and Per said he would use a shaper, Steve then mentioned the features on the OF 2200 and Per said he would still use a shaper! After using the OF 2200 as seen in the video he now thinks it wouldn't be so bad to use the OF2200.

To think we all walked in thinking this was going to be a big RAH-RAH session was absolutely wrong!

Dan Clermont

 

[Qwas]

I can imagine walking in and seeing you there. I would probably quit staring at all the tools (hard for me to do!) and you would have all my attention. And then Brice walks in! And then Per! But wait there's more guru's coming!

We spend the day playing with all the great tools, with excellent trainers. learning all kinds of new tricks I never thought of. But wait, now dinner and conversation with all of you. And probably a few drinks afterwards. How I am suppose to sleep knowing this is only the beginning - 2 more days to go and perhaps a lifetime of friendship...

I really don't know how I would handle life after a weekend like that. I don't hold anything against you guys that got selected and I really do believe Festool selected a great group of guys to go. If I had to pick, I couldn't do better. And I don't know how you guys have been able to hold your enthusiasm so well.

And I don't know if others have said it but thanks for sharing what you have learned. All of you could have decided to keep it secret and not share your experience. Thankfully none of you are that type of people which proves Festool selected the right group.

 

[Eli]

And here I thought I'd finally found a quiet, celebrity-free zone somewhere on the planet............

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
This is an interesting discussion, and Ned raises a really good point about how others might perceive the way the attendees feel.  But for those of us who attended, and for the Festool reps, it was far from a starry-eyed dream session!

The nature of this trip very much resembled the nature of this forum: supportive and interested, but also demanding and challenging.

Of course, it was a lot of fun being wined and dined for a few days, seeing the tool center, and meeting the big guy (Christian O.).  But let me tell you -- and I think I speak for all the FOG members who attended -- there was also a good bit of work.  All the FOG attendees were trying to collect information, and it resembled a classroom for the majority of the time.  I'll admit I was getting a bit antsy at times sitting there taking notes.  We were not just there to play!

It was also work for the Festool reps.  We really tested them!  They commented many times about how "this is a tough group."  What they meant is that we asked challenging questions, expressed doubts, and pushed them to prove that the new tools are worthwhile.  As mentioned earlier in this discussion, Per openly challenged the need for the OF 2200 router, and made the Festool reps work hard to change his mind.  All of us did similar things throughout the weekend.

Personally, I challenged the Festool reps with some initial doubts of my own about the new tools (I'll mention these in the specific tool discussions).  Generally, I challenged Festool to provide better technical information to buyers, and to have a better connection with the forum.  I'll bring these up in other posts.

My belief is that Festool is a strong company -- a different kind of company.  How many companies would pay for a group of customers to come to their main training facility for several days and offer open communication with their CEO?  By the same token, Festool customers are smarter and more demanding.  A great company always benefits from hearing what their customers have to say, and responding to it.

Matthew

 

[Per Swenson]

My belief is that Festool is a strong company -- a different kind of company.  How many companies would pay for a group of customers to come to their main training facility for several days and offer open communication with their CEO?  By the same token, Festool customers are smarter and more demanding.  A great company always benefits from hearing what their customers have to say, and responding to it.

Matthew

Matthew sez it best right here.

There is not a powered hand tool company today that goes farther out of its way

in customer satisfaction then Festool USA.

Cheerleading...you bet, cause theres nothing wrong with that when its true.

And Folks, we were not slack jawed screaming festoolfangirls at Henderson.

Pretty tough crowd actually. Still can't sell me a drill. ;D

Per

 

[semenza]

mhch, don't feel bad. I have been PMed about others having the same feelings and I have felt the same.

At first I was thinking it was jealously, but I'm not so sure. The FOG seems to have a different feeling since the "Las Vegas 7".

But no worries, between you, me, Semenza, Fred, and Nickao we will get the place back to normal!

I'm hoping it's just the excitement that a trip like that would surely bring to any of us and nothing else. And I really do think Festool picked the right 7 people to go.

Hi,

         I am not doing anything in particular to get things back to "normal" here.   In fact I am not doing anything different at all.  As far as I know there is no secret back to normal group.  I will just continue posting questions, advise, humor (I hope its funny), information ,and opinion as always.    Bold emphasis above is mine

Seth

 

[semenza]

Hi,

       I think the group that went to Festool was well chosen. I don't see it as any great marketing ploy.   This forum running all on its own , with out corporate sponsorship etc ,is just about the best marketing any company could hope to have!  I actually feel that the group invited to Festool was a way for festool to give something back to this forum in a real positive way.  They didn't toss money our way. They are giving us much more than that with the info , and insight that the FOG members who went will be able to dispense.

Seth
     

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Boy this group sure worries about a lot of stuff

So what if Festool is doing some marketing - isn't that a good thing?  Don't we want Festool to succeed given our investments in that technology.

Its kind of like reading a review of a book or restaurant - I want them to tell me why this is good and worth doing/reading/buying.  I've been skeptical about th MFK, but I'm starting to soften after the info supplied by Jerry Work and others.

On the other hand, now Per clearly was imbibing something!  A three inch bit in a handheld router.  Come on!?! 

 

[monte]

hmmm, a little technical question here now that you bring up 3 inch bits.

to the "Henderson 7" .......what is the longest and widest bad boy that could safely be used in the 2200?

(or that Per would now go ahead and use?)

 

[Brice Burrell]

hmmm, a little technical question here now that you bring up 3 inch bits.

to the "Henderson 7" .......what is the longest and widest bad boy that could safely be used in the 2200?

(or that Per would now go ahead and use?)

That's a good question, if I get a 2200 I'll test it out and let you know. In an atempt to set the record straight, I don't think the bit you seen in the OF2200 pictures was a 3" bit, 2 1/4" or 2 1/2", does anyonne know for sure?

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

to the "Henderson 7" .......what is the longest and widest bad boy that could safely be used in the 2200?

I'm not one of the "Henderson 7", but I saw Steve Bace use a bit that barely fit in the OF 2200, probably 3-1/8" or so during our editors event back in December.  I would have to check one him to see what the exact size was.  At first glance, I said "Are you crazy?!  That's insane!".  But after seeing the demostration, I was surprised at the ease that it was handled.  Steve was definitely in complete control with minimal effort.  I, like Per, was well outside of the "kill zone" when he fired it up just in case.