The visit to Henderson: Did we drink the kool-aid?*

monte said:
hmmm, a little technical question here now that you bring up 3 inch bits.

to the "Henderson 7" .......what is the longest and widest bad boy that could safely be used in the 2200?

Sorry I can't help with hands-on use, but one interesting thing I noted from the specifications (well, I think it's interesting!) is that the "maximum cutter diameter" of the OF2200 is quoted at 89mm (3.5"). However, when you install it into a CMS table using the purpose-designed router module to produce the TF2200 bench-mounted router (not available in North America), the maximum cutter diameter is reduced to 60mm (2.36"). See the brochure for more details.

Of course, one person's idea of what can "safely be used" is different from another person's...

Forrest

 
.......Forest, safety wise, that was why I quantified it by going through the "Per" filter.  ;D ;D ;D

.......and by the way Shane and Brice, thank you for the feedback (that 2200 is rising like cream on my to get list.)
 
Jesse Cloud said:
Boy this group sure worries about a lot of stuff ;) ;)

So what if Festool is doing some marketing - isn't that a good thing?  Don't we want Festool to succeed given our investments in that technology.

Its kind of like reading a review of a book or restaurant - I want them to tell me why this is good and worth doing/reading/buying.  I've been skeptical about th MFK, but I'm starting to soften after the info supplied by Jerry Work and others.

On the other hand, now Per clearly was imbibing something!  A three inch bit in a handheld router.  Come on!?!  :D ;)
Jesse,

Yep, FOG is back to normal.  We ALWAYS worry about a lot of stuff!!!  ;D

Regarding the bit, I don't think it was quite 3", but it was huge.  I took some measurements using the original image and it looks to be about 2 1/2".

Quite frankly, I was VERY nervous about trying out that pup.  And, I've never cut solid surface material in any way.  I took pics while Brice and others used it on the Cherry.  (Yes, I'm a wuss!)  Then, I was one of the last people to try it on the solid surface. 

Overall, I was underwhelmed in a good way.  I.e, there was no drama.  The router was pretty heavy, to be sure.  But I didn't notice anything abnormal.  It was pretty much like cutting with a much smaller bit.  Lack of drama is a good thing when working with sharp objects spinning at thousands of RPMs.  8)

Of course one wonders what would happen it you tried the OF2200 with that big bit at a trade show, and then went home and threw one of those puppies in a "normal" router and tried it.    I suspect that you'd suddenly have considerable respect for the OF2200.  :o

Regarding the overall atmosphere at the training, it was pretty intense but understated.  I.e. it wasn't like a grand party.  All of the people there have very busy lives.  I mean ALL - Festool employees and FOG members.  All of us took time out from our normal jobs to try something new. 

I'm a contract software developer; I worked overtime before the meeting to make up the hours.  Other FOG members either lost work time or worked overtime to make up the hours.  On the Festool side, Christian and Brian flew in from Indiana and David flew in from California.  Before, during, and after the training, all of us were and are too busy to waste time with fanboy adulation. 

The FOG team was a "tough crowd".  We pinged the Festool guys with questions constantly.  Most of us knew most of the tools quite well, and we wanted to know more.  And in many cases, we found we knew far less than we thought.    The CT22 was a perfect example; we took it apart (literally) to find the details. 

For the new tools we had a whole basket full of questions.    The Festool guys knew the answers, but I don't think they expected to be pinged with that many intense questions.  They looked pretty drained towards the end.

True fanboys typically are "boys" who get enamored by a brand and how it improves their image and little egos.  The FOG members and Festool employees ranged in ages from late 30's to 60's with pretty good self-images and established egos.  All of the group are professionals who have been hammered with marketing hype their entire lives.  While we can be enthusiastic about the tools, when time is precious (it always is), we have no time for hype and fanboy silliness.  So FOG members dug hard for answers and the Festool guys gave them. 

To summarize the atmosphere... It was fairly intense - a bunch of people trying to share a lot of knowledge in a limited amount of time.  My only regret and one that is think is shared by others is that we went out to dinner.  I think most of us would have been happy to bring in pizzas and stay in class longer.  Would you consider that "fun"?  You might not; I do.

Regards,

Dan.

 
Shane Holland said:
I'm not one of the "Henderson 7", but I saw Steve Bace use a bit that barely fit in the OF 2200, probably 3-1/8" or so during our editors event back in December.  I would have to check one him to see what the exact size was.  At first glance, I said "Are you crazy?!  That's insane!".  But after seeing the demostration, I was surprised at the ease that it was handled.  Steve was definitely in complete control with minimal effort.  I, like Per, was well outside of the "kill zone" when he fired it up just in case. :D

Shane, that's so funny!

I'll admit it, when Steve first started running that big bit on the OF 2200, I sort of quietly "wandered over" to look at the Kapex on the other side of the room!!  I noticed that Per was also back a good distance.  I'm not sure if anyone else noticed.  But by the time Steve was done with the first run and began handing the router to other FOG people, I was coming back and watching more closely.

Matthew
 
Matthew Schenker said:
...
I noticed that Per was also back a good distance.  I'm not sure if anyone else noticed. 
...
Matthew,

I noticed.  I thought it was a bit strange seeing Per move that fast!  ;D  (Of course, then I started thinking... "Should I be this close?!?")

Dan.
 
Dan Clark said:
Matthew Schenker said:
...
I noticed that Per was also back a good distance.  I'm not sure if anyone else noticed. 
...
Matthew,

I noticed.   I thought it was a bit strange seeing Per move that fast!  ;D  (Of course, then I started thinking... "Should I be this close?!?")

Dan.

  Dan, when Steve started his demo you moved right in the line of where splinter could fly off to take pictures. I was coming over to pull you out of the way before Steve got going, luckily you moved out of the way, a few large splinters did fly off. I don't know if they would have done damage or not, I didn't want to find out.
 
Dan Clark said:
Jesse Cloud said:
Overall, I was underwhelmed in a good way.  I.e, there was no drama.  The router was pretty heavy, to be sure.  But I didn't notice anything abnormal.  It was pretty much like cutting with a much smaller bit.  Lack of drama is a good thing when working with sharp objects spinning at thousands of RPMs.  8)

Regards,

Dan.

Well put Dan! 

Glad you all had fun and thanks for the updates on the new products. 

I'm still skeptical about the safety and the precision of using huge bits in a handheld environment.  My first thought was 'maybe the guys at the local Woodcraft will do a demo', but I think I would be watching from out in the parking lot. :D
 
Three points that might be of interest.

  • No one's mentioned the frustration of time limits.  Any time you spent on one tool was time you weren't spending on others.  Steve and Brian were always responsive to questions, including questions on tools they hadn't planned to cover, but there was only so much time.  Many of us would have gone for bringing in pizza and continuing into the night--I first suggested it--but the truth is that all of us were very tired at the normal end of the day, both days.  Festool could not have done this better, other than perhaps making it two weeks rather than two days.
  • We did not see and were not told about any product that wasn't already being discussed on FOG.
  • The big plus wasn't being able to see a tool a bit ahead of time--it was seeing and using the tool while standing next to the excellent Festool trainers.
 
Ya know what?

Meeting 8 randomly chosen people plus the staff and CEO,

with nothing more in common between us then a Tool Company,

and maybe funny little dogs, and have it turn out so well,

I believe is a testament to the Human Condition.

A nicer bunch of Folks would be hard to duplicate.

But, I suspect that you would get the same results

with any 8 who post here.  Except maybe that fella who is no longer among us.

I'm just kinda happy to be a part of this thing we have going here.

Per
 
Per, really well and nicely put. Obviously I was not there but I agree with your assesment. Except for that one Fool, this entire board is made up of great people and I for one would love to meet every single one of you/them.  :)

It is hard to imagine having a better time than you did. Ned and Dan in particular have noted the amount of time you all put in those two days and how tired everyone was at the end of each day. That literally sounds like heaven to me. Meeting 8 compatriots from this board, meeting the Festool USA people, using the new tools as well as the old ones and having them disected and explained!!!!! I cannot help but think that every single person here would give their eye teeth or more to have that experience.

I must also say that every one of you has done a wonderful job of explaining what you did, showing the new tools and people, and letting us in on the new ideas and/or options that each tool you worked with has the ability to do. Thank you all, Fred
 
Larry, thank you but unlikely. I am merely a technician with these tools while those guys are artists. Fred
 
Qwas said:
mhch, don't feel bad. I have been PMed about others having the same feelings and I have felt the same.

At first I was thinking it was jealously, but I'm not so sure. The FOG seems to have a different feeling since the "Las Vegas 7".

But no worries, between you, me, Semenza, Fred, and Nickao we will get the place back to normal!

I'm hoping it's just the excitement that a trip like that would surely bring to any of us and nothing else. And I really do think Festool picked the right 7 people to go.

Thanks for the words, but I guarantee you I don't feel bad.
I was just willing to explain why I came up with those words,
and to make it clear that they had nothing to do with any
fancy beverage from the Las Vegas event !!  ;)
 
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