This was supposed to be the year, but....

[marrt]

I had big plans to upgrade many of my portable tools this year to Festool, but then the economy intervened along with a substantial (over)investment in a new shop.  So I need a little non-Festool advice to hold me over for a while.  I have some money in my Paypal account so I want to pick up a few new/lightly used tools on eBay.  I need to get new Plunge and Trim routers, an RO sander, and a nice jig saw.  Here's what I'm thinking:

Plunge Router:  ??  something Dewalt maybe?
Trim Router:  Bosch Colt
RO sander:  Bosch 1250
Jig saw:  Bosch 1590

Any suggestions for alternatives?  I don't care about the brand...just want best value for the money until I can afford the best period (i.e., Festool).  For what it's worth, I'll probably also bite the bullet and pick up a Domino since there's really no substitute.

 

[woodshopdemos]

one thought...put off buying the trim router and use the router that you plan to purchase...you may be able to afford the OF1400. It will certainly do both jobs.

 

[nickao]

Well the three Bosch you picked are great tools and great values and I would keep those if you want two separate routers.

What size router? For 2-2 1/4hp The Bosch 1617 or 1618 are good, I use the DeWalt 618 because I like the straight up dust collection.

If you want a 3 Hp router The DeWalt 625 is nice though it could plunge a little deeper.

 

[mwhafner]

I would stick with Bosch for the whole shooting match.  I have a Dewalt router setup (two motors and all three bases), and it is OK.  They are hard to adjust compared to PC or Bosch, and tend to be more susceptible to depth creep, especially in heavy cuts.  They come with two bases, one of which will accept PC bushings, which is a plus for me over the Bosch.  I usually just keep them in the truck for "rough" site work.  They will probably go on Craigslist before long.  

For mid-sized (2 1/4HP) routers, I like the flexibility of the interchangeable base models, rather than the dedicated plunge models.  I have the Bosch 1617 kit, and I love it.  They have the best soft-start of any of the standard manufacturers.  The fine adjustment is also excellent.  The fixed base is great for table use.  It can be adjusted from above the table like a pseudo-routerlift.  Not as smooth, but it works well.

I love the Colt.  The way I use mine, the variable speed in invaluable.  I have about 15 different base-plates that I have built for use in various jigs, etc.  My only complaint is that the edge guide is a little on the flimsy side.  

I haven't used the 1250 sander, but loved my 3727 (I had it several years ago, so I am using the new model number).  It wasn't as good as the ETS150, but a good sander.  It's demise was the reason I started buying the Festool sanders.  
While it is only a 5' model, a lot of people are raving about the new low-profile model from PC.  

There are a couple of recent threads about jigsaws, and you can't go wrong with Bosch here either.

 

[tbellemare]

Like John said, the OF 1400 will work as a smooth and powerful plunge router, plus as a trim router.

To use it as a trim router, there are some accessories...

There is an Angle Arm that is used to attach and adjust an Edging Plate to the router. This allows the router to be used horizontally.

The same Angle Arm is used to attach and adjust a Copy/Scanning Set to the router. This set provides a lot of flexibility. It can be used for copying/scanning and also can be turned inward and the bearing(s) used as a guide bearing for a bit that doesn't have one. That aspect alone, may save enough money in bits to justify it.

The OF 1400 also comes with three collets, 1/4", 8 mm, and 1/2". If you already have a collection of 1/2" bits, like a lot of people on this side of the pond, it can drive them out of the box.

It also comes with a PC guide bushing adapter that snaps into the base.

Tom

 

[nickao]

mwwhafner I have no idea why you have problems with the DeWalt routers. I have 6 - 618 motors and at least 12 bases and never had an issue with any of them. I love the dust collection that goes straight up to the boom arm and I get 100% dust collection with a CT33.

I also get the motors frequently for less than 100.00 one as low as 65.00 so it is a great value. I only use the DeWalt plunge bases and sold all the other bases.

The new Porter Cable Plunge Bases were upgraded and are now identical to the DeWalt Plunge bases so they are no better or worse than the DeWalt bases at all.

I use them every day for several hours, some units since they day they came out several years ago, never one break down.

I might buy what you have email me before you go on craiglist.

 

[mwhafner]

I am not saying that the Dewalt is totally without merit, I just prefer the Bosch.  Just my opinion.

The dust collection on the Dewalt plunge base does work well, and is ingenious.  I do use the D-handle base and fixed-base, so they factor into my overall ranking.  That is where I have experienced most of the creep.  The cord system is also handy (similar to the Plug-It cords). 

I also haven't even really looked at the newer PC 2 1/4HP models, much less used them.  The 690 and 7500 series are no-frills, but are unstoppable.  Other than a couple of worn out collets and brushes, I have had no issues.  They are like my old pickup; they don't have any of the bells-and-whistles, aren't pretty, but they do what I need to - everytime! 

The Bosch just seems a little more refined than the Dewalt, and much more refined than the PCs. 

Mr. Lucas makes a great point.  When you look at the price of both, the OF1400 should seem a little more affordable.  It is a spectacular machine. 

 

[nickao]

My PC routers are the 890's, the original plunge was horrible on them! The 690 is a 20 year old design it held up well and they still sell them which is hard to believe!

Just watch for the Bosch threads stripping out its an ongoing problem with about 1/2 of the units made. The 1617-18 Bosch are sweet routers.

 

[marrt]

What size router?

2.25HP is fine for what I do.  Maybe the idea of buying an OF 1400 has merit.  This is definitely the model I would buy if I could afford the Festool route (no pun intended). 

One nice thing about the DeWalt's is the likelihood of finding them cheap on eBay (I have over $1K in a paypal balance that the wife doesn't know about ).  I put in low ball bids on two NIB DeWalt 14.4v impact drivers years ago and ended up winning both for less than the retail price of a new one.  A lot of pawn shops end up with DeWalt stuff.  I wonder why. 

Too bad I can no longer buy new Festool on eBay.

 

[nickao]

Well you can not compare the Festool OF1400(way better) to a DeWalt router except that they both cut, but one with a lot more Finesse(Festool). I have the OF1010 and the OF 1400 and they are nice, but my everyday routers are the DeWalt.

The DeWalt 618 is the 2 1/4 HP and the DeWalt 616 is the 1 3/4 Hp. Look at amp draw though that's what counts really.

Pawn shops end up with the DeWalts because they are more site tools that are cheaper, but get the job done and many guys have no work right now.

The ones at the Pawn shops tend to be beat though so watch it or get a refund guarantee. You can get used Festool on eBay, but the prices are so high why not buy new from Bob Marino or one of the other guys here, they are all the same price anyway.

 

[mwhafner]

One nice thing about the DeWalt's is the likelihood of finding them cheap on eBay (I have over $1K in a paypal balance that the wife doesn't know about Wink )

You might want to check with some of the Festool dealers on the forum.  Some might be willing to do a PayPal transaction.

 

[nickao]

Oh you can use paypal at many places for Festools.

Or just get the free debit card tied to the paypal account that they give and you can use your balance anywhere visa is taken. It only takes about 5 days to get the card tied to the paypal account.

Or have paypal send you a check I got mine in less than a week.

Here is one Festool place that takes paypal with no shipping and possibly no tax depending on where you live:

http://www.toolzone.com/

 

[JayStPeter]

As for the router, my call would be the Bosch 1617 two base kit.  Great router and the (extra cost) DC attachments work well and hook right to the festool hose.  I split my time between the 1617 and OF1400.  I prefer each for different work.  You can live without a trim router with a dual base kit like this ... at least until you start a collection.  I've seen some real good sales on the Bosch kit over the last couple years.  I think the plunge base in this kit is one of the best on the market.  The fixed base is super stable.
For the ROS:  Get the ETS150, the thing is awesome.  You use these things so much, that's where I'd spend the money.
I haven't bothered to replace my Bosch jig saw with a Festool, and don't have any plans to at this point.

Jay

 

[tbellemare]

Tool Home and others accept PayPal. With us, you merely have to call (512-428-9140) or send an email to tom@tool-home.com.

I'm always happy to discuss and analyze what is appropriate. If I, personally, don't know the best solution for your needs, I am not ashamed of asking the best of the best for a bit of advice... I know a lot of people with a lot of expertise. We sell many products from many vendors but it is hard to beat Festool in their realm.

One of the first things that sets Festool apart, and is most noticed, is the Dust Collection. The aspect of the Festool System that is under-discussed/under-evaluated in most discussions is SAFETY. The Festool System is designed around Personnel Safety. For casual users, this is paramount because weekend tools users may only be developing safe working practices.

For the "Old Hands", Safety is also a prominent consideration... If their "old hands" are still populated by a full set of fingers, they may be a little less carefull than they were previously and tools that are safer may preserve the remainders.

Tom

 

[marrt]

Thanks for the education on Paypal vendors...this opens up additional options for sure.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

For what its worth, I had the DeWalt 621 and the Bosch 1617 when I bought my OF1400.  Sold the DeWalt right away.  Still have the Bosch (I think), but haven't used it for a year or so - same with the Colt.  John is absolutely right about the OF1400 working as both a plunge and a trim router.

Having said all that....If you are anywhere near Albuquerque, I can set you up with a couple of Bosch routers real cheap. ;^)

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Like John said, the OF 1400 will work as a smooth and powerful plunge router, plus as a trim router.

To use it as a trim router, there are some accessories...

There is an Angle Arm that is used to attach and adjust an Edging Plate to the router. This allows the router to be used horizontally.

The same Angle Arm is used to attach and adjust a Copy/Scanning Set to the router. This set provides a lot of flexibility. It can be used for copying/scanning and also can be turned inward and the bearing(s) used as a guide bearing for a bit that doesn't have one. That aspect alone, may save enough money in bits to justify it.

Tom

Tom,
These accessories are new to me and I'm am puzzled by how they work.  Do you have a picture of them attached to the OF1400?
Thanks,
Jess

 

[tbellemare]

Jesse:

Here are the accessories with the OF 1400:

[attachthumb=1]

This photo shows the spot on the router where you attach the Angle Arm.

[attachthumb=2]

Here it is attached. Notice that there is an adjustment slot.

[attachthumb=3]

This photo is to point out that there are threads used for fine adjustment between the Angle Arm and either the Edging Plate or the Scanning Arm.

[attachthumb=4]

Here is the Edging Plate mounted on the router:

[attachthumb=5]

This next one shows all the parts of the Copy/Scanning Set:

[attachthumb=6]

This one shows the large bearing attached:

[attachthumb=7]

And finally, the Copy/Scanning Set with the large bearing attached mounted on the router.

[attachthumb=8]

This also works with the OF 1010.

Tom

 

[Steve Jones]

Jesse,

Just in case Tom didn't make it clear, That scanning arm (amongst it's other neat uses) is to make ANY router bit a rabbet or template bit, in other words it provides a micro adjustable bearing that will follow an edge or template - instead of buying a bearing bit I can almost always find a non-bearing bit that will do the job, it's another of those misunderstood and underrated accessories that can save you a lot of time and money.

Steve

 

[Jimhart]

Tom,

Thanks for the pictures on these accessories. I had a vague idea of their function. Now I can clearly see the application of all those parts. The clock is ticking until I find myself in a situation where they would make the OF1400 'the perfect tool for the job' in even more situations.

I am increasingly finding myself feeling that way about almost every Festool product I own. For anyone sitting on this fence, the MFT/3 and the clamps really unlock a great deal of the system. Being able to safely secure parts of pretty much any shape or size just can't be reinforced often enough.

Jim