Thoughts and questions about festool drills

[PreferrablyWood]

About a year ago, I bought the Carvex 15v version, thinking that in the not too distant future I'd be getting the C15 or the DRC 18v 4.2 ah drills, that would give me access to good quality drilling and more batteries that can be used with the carvex..

Now after a year still no drill purchase, I've instead invested in a Sander the FS 300 eq, a router EBQ 1010, the TS 75, and tomorrow I take delivery of the MFT 3, parf dogs and bench dogs. This information just to illustrate that I feel I need to get some core functions on board before I replace my aging 14V dewalt, and corded AEG drills..

Next tool purchase will likely be a Domino so you see all these these purchases add something to my setups functionallity, while drills are more or less just a replacement of something I have that works okay now so I can wait to get the high end drills..

I think the Festool combination of the CXS, the DRC, and the BHC looked quite slick and effective but on the other hand getting these tools on my budget pushes other tool dreams very far into the future.

Lately I've been having thoughts about just going with adequate drills that can be bought with relative little outlay, that fill in the gaps, for me. a pair of 12v drill and impact driver for most light duty screwing and drilling at attractive price, then a more beefy corded drill that can be used with whole saws, and for stirring morter, and small batches of plaster etc.. I'd go for a low torque metabo..

What I feel about the festool and other 18vcordless drills when I watch videos of them being used to drill large wholes is that the mass of the drills body seems too small to balance nicely with the forces being generated, they jerk around comfort and precision can be comprised.

The heavier corded drills, are not that much heavier than the cordless 18v offerings, but more importantly the mass of the drill is in the column of force lines to the work,so there's none of this jumping around.. Also I could mount these type of drills in a drills press stand offered at a reasonable price to add this functionallity on a budget..

Anyways this is my thought, that maybe just buy the battery I need for the Carvex when I need it for a specifc task that the 15v battery can't handle, then get a corded low torque drill for larger diameter hole drilling, a dedicated SDS drill for chiselling demolition work hole drilling in concrete and stone if I need it, could also just rent this for ocassional use, and a pair of relatively inexpensive drill impact for just banging around with, for everyday use for the same price as the cost of one CXS drill..

This is not in anyway to disparage Festool drills, but for me it seems a little like overkill to go with these at the present time..

I see more likely the next purchases would be the Domino 500 or 700, and a larger router that can be mounted in a table. Router bits, and so on so the next year will definitely see substantial investments in festools, but to balance the books, I'll have to cut out some of the less essential expenditures..

Also have to remember all the accessories, needed to flesh out the tools already on board, plus materials and workspace..

I'm planning on doing my woodworking projects on a seasonal scheme where the long Danish winters depressing and dark, can be spent filing, cutting, drilling, dominoeing , inventing, repairing refinishing away in some cosy space at the back behind the store front....in an inner courtyard from November to April..

Just thoughts about the future plans any inputs would be appreciated!

Regards

Wade

 

[shed9]

I know exactly where you are coming from. Drills for me are a necessary evil and there are only so many ways a manufacturer can make theirs go round in a better and / or more unique way comparative to other manufacturers.

I have a CXS and to be fair its just superb but I just could not justify the cost of the higher end drills. sure the Centrotec is extremely useful but I can get that functionality from Metabo or Fein.

Like you I'm not knocking (high end) Festool drills and I have no doubt they are worth every penny but they are just not on my radar with their current pricing structure.

 

[RKA]

Sounds like you have thought it through pretty well. The drills were a tough sell for me as well, so I decided to put them off until I could outfit the shop with most of the rest of my wish list. The trigger control on the ECTec motors was fantastic, but there was nothing wrong with the existing drills I have. The one thing that has really come in handy is the offset and right angle chucks though. That depends on you and what you'll be doing and what other similar options you have at your disposal. The first time I used them, I finally felt like the purchase wasn't only a splurge. None of my other drills offers that.

I do wish festool would bring their larger offerings to NA, but perhaps the price would change my mind (haven't looked into the costs really).  So again, if you can save some money with another brand that works equally well and add something else to your shop with the money saved, why not!

 

[carlb40]

Well as a site carpenter my tools are used daily. I currently use the makita 18v kit, but in the process of changing to all festool.
It started off with the TS55, then the midi and now my favourite drill the CXS.
I will be getting more drills, probably the C15 and definitely  the DRC. The weight or lack of it is a deciding factor for me.
I have a bad back ( slipped disc ) and anything to make my life easier is better. The job i am currently  on was a deciding factor for festool.
The first part was cutting over 3 pallets of osb. While i was managing with a ply guide edge and then a home made cutting guide. As we all know it takes time, mark out clamp, cut, unclamp etc etc
So i went out and got the TS55 followed by the midi the following week.  [big grin]

Next stage was custom made  doors and frames and so far i have fitted around 90 doors, some of which are over 8ft  high and over 3ft wide. So during that as silly as it sounds the weight of the makita DHP458 was putting pressure on my back when i was using it for pilot holes etc. So the CXS was purchased. That is now my go to drill for most things that don't require an impact.
The DRC will be purchased soon as that will be used for drilling out for locks and things the CXS cannot handle. Weight wise the DRC is around 500gms lighter than the DHP458 and not much more than my makita impact.  Oh and despite the cost the centrotec system for me is a fantastic time saver.  [smile]

Also on my to get list will be the EHL65, the OF1010  a carvex - cordless or corded still to be decided on. Maybe a sander or two.
Next year i also want to get the kapex as i am impressed with it after seeing various videos ( really need to stay away from youtube  [eek]  )

 

[PreferrablyWood]

I know exactly where you are coming from. Drills for me are a necessary evil and there are only so many ways a manufacturer can make theirs go round in a better and / or more unique way comparative to other manufacturers.

I have a CXS and to be fair its just superb but I just could not justify the cost of the higher end drills. sure the Centrotec is extremely useful but I can get that functionality from Metabo or Fein.

Like you I'm not knocking (high end) Festool drills and I have no doubt they are worth every penny but they are just not on my radar with their current pricing structure.

I feel that high end drill money could be better spent in the future on a compressor and nailer and  a few cheaper drills, if for example I realize one of my projects in building some wood garden cottages, screws for those kind of jobs, and needlessly expensive and slow... Also I seen some small finishing nailers that could do quick work on smaller projects...

Woodworking with the domino, and other joinery also seems so much more rewarding for som of the small to midsized cabinetry and table building projects I plan to do.

Putting up cabinets, and kitchen installs with the drills I'm thinking of will be easy and uncomplicated no need for high drills there. I suppose the festool and other high drills are priced and targeted for super pro users that are on the job 5 days a week with their drills...

 

[AlexThePalex]

A drill is a drill. Drills from other brands also work very good. I think the Festool drills are bit better, not all that much, but a bit, and that makes them more comfortable to me. I find that most other drills from reputable brands are very good too, if you look at the pure quality of their mechanics.

But I myself am totally finished with the jacobs chuck they come with. Changing bits takes so much time when you use a jacobs chuck, I'm sick of it and I'll never be going back to it now that I know the Centrotec system. Problem with most drills from other brands is that they come with a jacobs chuck only. I only know about Metabo and Fein who have their own centrotec-like system now. Of course gracefully copied from Festool.

If money is the deciding factor, you're better off with other brands. Festool drills are already double the price, but once you have a Festool drill, you will want to get into the centrotec system too, and before you know it, you'll find you have spend about as much money on Centrotec bits as you had on the drill originally. So your fully outfitted Festool drill will end up being four times as expensive as a drill from another brand. Count on 1000 to 1200 euros for a full set.

 

 

[Scott B.]

Drills are a category of tool for me where there are several brands of drills and drivers that work really well. It seems to come down to the creature comforts.

How it fits the hand.

How it sits when you set it down.

How powerful but controlled and balanced it is.

How long the battery lasts.

And more importantly, how does it act at the end of its charge cycle.

If I am drilling and driving hundreds of holes, which I did just this past weekend, it is these matters that cross my mind...

 

[Birdhunter]

The Domino is a game changer for me as is the MFT/TS55 track saw/guide. Maybe just a drill, but the Festool drills are a big step up from deWalt, Bosch, etc in terms of handling and features and quality. The little CSX is a real pleasure to use.

 

[roblg3]

For me, it's about feel and control. I've owned dozens of drills over the decades and i splurged on a C15 li set with centrotec installers kit.  Funny thing is, all the really cool innovative tools festool has and I wouldn't change my drill for any other( unless I find something better).  No drill has ever been so balanced, light and a pleasure to use.  It feels like an extension of my hand.  the C series gives different grasping points than the T series.  More options when reaching into a tight space.

** I am bothered by the lack of a centrotec screw guide though.  Annoyed that one isn't produced**

 

[Stephen B]

[size=14pt]Until I purchased a CXS back in March, I would have totally agreed with you Wade. But that little drill is just a wonder and has made me reconsider the remaining Festool line up, particularly the PDC 18 and PD20.

And like Alex I like the Centrotec Sytem.

My bottom line though is that a Makita 18V3amp and two corded Metabo drills do meet my other drill needs, and really my ageing Makita compound will need to be replaced (probably by Kapex) long before those drills.

 

[VW mick]

I've just got a CSX and I really like it .think next will be centrotec and then prob a corded drill .and I will go 18v when my panasonics wear out (I'm trying hard)

 

[jt073]

A good discussion..

I have most of the Festool range of stuff - hate to think what I've spent.

As it happens, the first thing I bought was a 12v FDD drill set with 15min charger and right angle and offset adapters.  It still is a brilliant tool, particularly combined with the Centrotec set that I got shortly afterwards.

I have lots of drills and drivers, dewalt 18v li-ion, bosch 10.8v li-ion, bosch 3.6v li-ion, bosch 36v li-ion plus mains drills and all get used, so the Festool FDD is not always used! 

The right angle adapter is absolutely invaluable - the engineering on this is superb - I have used it for so many things, not least coring out brickwork in a tight spot.  The drill may only be 12v Ni-MH, but it packs a punch.

I have many times thought I should upgrade to a T18 which looks v nice but I don't really need it.

The latest drills do not have the offset adapter available and this is a loss IMO.  The new style right angle adapter also does not look as robust as the original. 

I think the thing that gives Festool an edge, where you can justify the price, is when they make a system that just works all together and it probably was the original drill that got me hooked!

Cheers

 

[jools]

I have most of the Festool drills and most of my work is on site. The cxs is never in its systainer and is the best small drill driver I have owned in 30 yrs. The DWC 18v kicks any other drywall screw gun into touch and even drives the cheapest screws reliably including 55mm flooring screws.  My makita version is on eBay. The BHC is a joy to use but you need the side handle for larger bits. Drilled two holes at 125mm core bit through celcon blocks yesterday no sweat. The PDC is the one I have had to grapple with. The electronic clutch always thinks it knows best which can be frustrating when using larger hole saws and spade bits. The zobo bits however are never any problem. I do not have a Festool 15ti using my makita impact when required but I tend to drive screws with the PDC and don't miss the noise. The centrotec system is expensive but as I expand my range of bits and drills you consign every other bit to a box. Yes they are expensive but so is my time and on price work faster and better is more money in my pocket. I have never regretted any Festool purchase but the domino, ts55 are game changers, the drills are just better than most
Kind regards
Jools

 

[mlfaber]

First off let me say I love and can justify each and every one of my Festool purchases.  I own the older C-12 drill and have for a while now.  I played with each and every one of their drills from the CXS to the T18.  I am currently in the market to add a second drill and first turned to finding another C 12 for compatibility purposes.  But, I seem to be stuck on the price!  When I bought the C12, Festool was leading the competition in so many ways, but the competition is stiffer now.  Brushless motors are now found in most brands, things like a light and battery gauge are common, and drill/drivers are getting smaller and more powerful!  I think for me, workshop based, I am going to go with the M12 Fuel drills.  Also, the other deciding factor for me was the battery platform and what else is available.  I want the CXS but in a version that has more power, half inch chuck, brushless and multiple tools to share batteries.  I really think they need to expand the CXS platform.

 

[CNX]

Hi Alex,

Just out of curiosity and I want to clarify one thing.
I'm with you about the Jacob's chuck. I don't like it at all. But I don't quite understand your comment about centrotec.
I have Milwaukee and Bosch screwdrivers and drills, both with hex heads with one-touch bit exchange capability.
Does Centrotec provide something much better than these usual hex heads?

I've never used Centrotec and may be missing something important [blink]

 

[rst]

I have used all sorts of drills in 34 years of commercial locksmithing, auto and manual door installation/service, metalworking and plastics fabrication.  I've had B&D, Fein, and Makita cordless drills and currently use Milwaukee's 12 & 18 volt systems.  The key word is systems.  I switched most of my other tools and storage to Festool and Tanos because of their system approach.  For the same reason I will be staying with Milwaukee because there is so much variety to the tools using the same batteries.  I have 12V dremel type, recip saw, oscillating, hammer, and impact tools.  With the 18 volt system I have the metal cutting saw, grinder, hammer, impact, 3/8" socket drills and LED light.  The 12v tools and accessories I keep in a five drawer Tanos sortainer (Lee Valley) and the 18 v tools in a Midi III with wth metal cutting saw in a syst IV.

 

[carlb40]

Hi Alex,

Just out of curiosity and I want to clarify one thing.
I'm with you about the Jacob's chuck. I don't like it at all. But I don't quite understand your comment about centrotec.
I have Milwaukee and Bosch screwdrivers and drills, both with hex heads with one-touch bit exchange capability.
Does Centrotec provide something much better than these usual hex heads?

I've never used Centrotec and may be missing something important [blink]

With my limited use of the centrotec system it is leagues ahead of the normal quick release 1/4'' hex holders and bits.
Lets take something like this as an example

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trend-SNAP-D-4MM-Trend-Snappy-4mm-drill-and-adapter-/291060054639?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43c487fa6f

If you use something like that to pre drill and then pop in a screwdriver bit to drive the screw home. It does the job, but the drill bit in the holder will wobble about and there is around 2mm of play or more.

Use the centrotec version
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360690508766?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649 

And there is no play giving a better quality of cut.

Plus over the years i have had various quick release holders and in less than a year they stop holding the bits properly. So trying to pre-drill  you end up with the drill still in the timber as the holder doesn't hold it.

Hopefully with Festool's  quality the centrotec chuck will last a lot longer  [smile]

 

[CNX]

Thanks Carl, that's clear.
It is not just about the quick release capability (because hex heads can do it too), but about the level of precision.

 

[carlb40]

Thanks Carl, that's clear.
It is not just about the quick release capability (because hex heads can do it too), but about the level of precision.

I was very sceptical about the centrotec system before buying the CXS, but after using it for  a while it has won me over. The speed / ease of use and the precision is great. I think the precision might be too precise though.  [scared]
At the moment i only have the supplied bit holder with the CXS and many times i struggle to get a wire detent bit out of it. In fact today i had to leave it in and take the chuck off and use a different bit straight into the CXS.  [eek] LOL

I am now a firm believer in the centrotec system and i am slowly building up the various parts i will commonly use.  [smile]

 

[semenza]

Another advantage of the Centrotec over add on quick change  holders, is that it is much more compact since it takes the place of the Jacobs chuck.

Seth