Time for a new planer, but which one?

[Oilers]

All,

Long time lurker, first time poster.  I'd like thoughtful advice from the experienced folks here on my planer quest.

Question:  I'm going to buy a new planer for my basement shop as I've tired of my current unit.

Relevant Facts:  I work in a generously sized basement shop with some very nice tools.  I've reached the point in life where I can buy once, cry-once, but enjoy whatever I get.  I have 1ph/220 power and good dust collection.  I build furniture and other projects as a hobby.  I've got a Delta 380 15" that is fine.  It's fine. 

Why Buy?  Setting the knives on the Delta, with a top motor, is a real nightmare.  It takes a frustrating amount of time and is not simple.  Snipe is something I can tune out of the Delta, but it comes back over time.  The Delta is loud.  Very loud.  I built a dust shroud for it so that I could hook up dust collection.  Hooking the DC up makes the Delta louder.  It is easily the loudest tool in my shop.  Also, I'm capable of buying something new and this is my hobby.  The planer is the last tool I have where I'm relying on something used that was just supposed to "get me over" until I could get something nicer.  It was a great find and really let me do so much more once I bought it, I'd just like something more convenient and enjoyable.  As a Festool/Sawstop, Minimax user, I've come to really appreciate a tricked-out/well-designed/well-built tool. 

Important considerations:
1.  It must go into my basement.  One regular flight of stairs just inside the back door of the house.  If it is over 600lbs, I will need to be able to take it apart then reassemble it and have it work properly once in my basement.  I've had guys move my SawStop 3HP ICS and my Minimax s500p bandsaw into the basement.  It has been done.  Someday a lathe will make the same trip.
2.  I'd like something that is relatively simple to change blades/knives/cutters in (a tersa or helical/segmented/xylent style head).  Anyone want to talk me into or out of that?
3.  I'm in Canada.  That won't stop me from buying something Euro or American, just a relevant fact.  We have access to a brand called King, which sells copies of the Taiwanese machines everyone can get.  They look a lot like a Grizzly, or even a Powermatic (minus the paint). 
4.  I'd be okay with a jointer/planer.  The weight seems high unless anyone has experience getting the wings off/back on after movement.  I also have a lovely 8" jointer, so the multi-function tools are of limited interest.  (Unless someone wants to donate a Felder AD941, which I will disassemble and reassemble piece by piece to get into my basement.)  Does anyone have experience getting these bigger machines into the basement without the straps and various rigging (which are not options for me).
5.  I'd spend a lot more than three thousand for the right idea.  But I'm not going to spend 20 grand or install an elevator to get it in.
6.  15" of planing capacity seems enough.
7.  Quieter = better.

Please, share your thoughts with me as I'm struggling with what to do.  The options I'm currently batting around are:

A. buy the $3300 Taiwanese-clone King with a segmented cutter head (King Canada).  It looks like my current planer with the motor moved underneath, so I worry about snipe, noise, adjusting, etc.
B.  Spend some, or a lot, more and get something very different from the 15" Taiwanese clones.
C.  Wait a semi-infinite amount of time for something interesting to show up used within a 1000km drive of the Prairies.  Drive too far to pick it up, have it be disappointing because it is too niche, heavily used, etc. 

What is your experience with your available-in-market planer?  There are some videos on YouTube, but a large number of them are not terribly serious reviews (with a few exceptions). 

 

[smorgasbord]

2.  I'd like something that is relatively simple to change blades/knives/cutters in (a tersa or helical/segmented/xylent style head).  Anyone want to talk me into or out of that?

I actually swapped out the cutterhead on my MiniMax FS350 Jointer/Planer a couple decades ago and highly recommend going that route. I have a Tersa cutterhead, which means blade swaps are easy, but today I think I'd lean towards the segmented and helical cutterheads because of less tear out. As it is, I keep a few sets of blades around, saving the least-used set for the final pass. Yes, it really is quick to swap out Tersa knives.

 

[tjbier]

I have a MiniMax CU300 (combination machine)and the jointer/planer function is nice and space saving. It has the Tersa head in it, I have been wanting to upgrade to the helical head though. It's fine but will obviously leave straight knife marks on the boards that need to be sanded out.  The Tersa knives can be swapped out in less than 5 min so that is nice.
I also have a Woodmaster 718 with straight knives.. I would NOT buy any planer or jointer that has straight knives. Helical for sure. Much quieter, smoother cut, no tear out around knots ect.

 

[ryan_k]

I bought a Hammer A3-31 (with the helical head) a few years ago and it's been amazing. Some of the best money I've spent on woodworking tools. Would also fit down a staircase without being disassembled (I bet a ramp/track made of 2x4 and a winch would make lowering it down not too bad).  It's also super quiet.

Previously I used a Dewalt DW735 and then an older Makita 2040 along with an older Delta/Rockwell 6" jointer.

I know you have an 8" jointer, but that extra 4" comes in real handy sometimes.

It also doesn't sound like you'll be happy with the $3k options available (I wouldn't be either), so spending a little more is probably the right call.

 

[Cheese]

It sounds like noise is a real concern of yours, if so, it's been my experience that the helical head with carbide inserts are substantially quieter than straight blade versions. When I went from straight blades to a helical head the SPL of the planer dropped by 10-11 dB, that's a significant difference.

 

[Oilers]

A number of the video and text reviews of the Hammer combo machines have been less than kind.  I do wonder what the real world experience of people with them has been , so thanks for the comments. 

Has anyone regretted the transition to combo machines from separates?

I take the advice on helical heads.  It seems the consensus is to avoid the straight knives. 

 

[cdconey]

Why not change out the cutter head on your existing 380 with a Byrd helical head?  I purchased a 380 used and installed a Byrd head purchased from Grizzly, works great.  First time I rotated cutters was about 18 months after I installed the new cutter head and my son was doing production work with it daily for those two years. Probably could have been done sooner, but it was still cutting smooth.

 

[shanegrilah]

I have a Minimax FS41 combination machine that I moved into the basement by myself. I’m fortunate enough that it is a straight in and down move. The tables were removed then reinstalled and aligned in the basement. Built a dolly for the machine and a track system on the stairs and rolled it off the truck using it as the anchor. Yes, I read that straps/rigging is not an option but just showing an idea.

It has a Tersa head which I like and blade changes are quick, as already stated.

If I had the room I would buy separate machines. Seems like it is always setup as the opposite function from the one I want to use. It only takes a minute to change over but I still find myself annoyed when I can’t just walk up and use the machine.

If I had to do it over, I’d attempt to move the machine into the basement without taking off the tables. Probably would need to reinforce the steps to do that though. Reinstalling and realigning is a challenge. Especially the jointer tables. I’ve done it several times and still doubt whether they are quite right.

Shane

 

[smorgasbord]

Moving into a basement shop has got to be lots easier than moving out of one.

 

[WillB]

Byrd Helical heads on my 12" jointer and 20" PM planer
just amazing, super quiet, and no tear out...cutter heads seem to never dull.
do u need a more powerful machine?  Wider width?
those questions determine if it makes more sense to get a new machine or maybe replace the head in your current machine, assuming they make one to fit. Helica head prob. the biggest advancement in ww power tools in a looong time...

 

[rvieceli]

[member=78841]Oilers[/member]  here is a vendor for the Byrd head to fit your planer. You can also spec replacement bearings at the same time.
https://shelixheads.com/SHELIX_for_delta_15_inch_Planer_(DC-380)

Ron

 

[Oilers]

So, I spent some time at a local retailer who has the Laguna PX16 in stock. 

It actually looks like a nice machine, and the knowledgeable sales guy says that they’ve sold into schools and technical institutes around town with no major issues. 

Anyone here have first hand experience with the Laguna products?

Also, anyone have any opinions on the Sheartex heads?  The rep said the one small downside was that the surfaces weren’t super smooth.  I assume that’s something sanding solves (and we always sand, right?).

 

[rvieceli]

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] Hey Tom, don't you have a Laguna planer in your shop?

Ron

 

[Mini Me]

A number of the video and text reviews of the Hammer combo machines have been less than kind.  I do wonder what the real world experience of people with them has been , so thanks for the comments. 

Has anyone regretted the transition to combo machines from separates?

I take the advice on helical heads.  It seems the consensus is to avoid the straight knives.

More information one the criticism will help us advise you. I have both a Hammer K3 and A3-31 and both are superb for the price. I have seen at least one video criticising the K3 because he wanted it to be set up the way his cabinet saw was set up, it is not a cabinet saw so get over it. Why people insist on trying to set their new slider the same as the cabinet saw they just got rid of is one of life's little mysteries. They must think the manufacturer has no idea at all on how his machine should be used. 

 

[kevinculle]

I would also suggest a Byrd or similar insert head could solve your issues with the current planer at much less expense and effort.  I have a basement shop and know about moving heavy tools in and out.  In my case the Byrd head in my DeWalt DW-735 reduced the noise signature by 13dBA, which is a very noticeable improvement.  I have had Byrd heads on my planer and jointer for over 7 years and I have only rotated 2 or 3 inserts altogether where the edges were lightly chipped.  The rest are still on the first edge and cutting beautifully.

 

[shanegrilah]

Regarding the Laguna unit, can the dealer or one of the schools nearby run a demo the machine for you? Run some scraps through of woods you use to see the surface finish that it provides then you could see the amount of sanding you have to live with.

 

[rhoyer]

I would also suggest a Byrd or similar insert head could solve your issues with the current planer at much less expense and effort.  I have a basement shop and know about moving heavy tools in and out.  In my case the Byrd head in my DeWalt DW-735 reduced the noise signature by 13dBA, which is a very noticeable improvement.  I have had Byrd heads on my planer and jointer for over 7 years and I have only rotated 2 or 3 inserts altogether where the edges were lightly chipped.  The rest are still on the first edge and cutting beautifully.

I'm with this. I also have a 735 with a Byrd head and changing the cutter head revolutionized the machine. If you just want a newer, fancier tool I'm 100% supportive of that because I've had plenty of those moments myself. If you don't find any flaws with your current 15" planer that putting a helical head on wouldn't resolve then you're more likely to be disappointed in a fully new 15" model than simply swapping out your straight blade head with a byrd head and you'll have certainly spent more money.

If you're buying new, make sure you're adding features/capacity outside of the helical head because the path to one for your current machine is a lot easier than getting one planer up the stairs and another one back down.

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] Hey Tom, don't you have a Laguna planer in your shop?

Ron

No Laguna planer.

We run a Woodmaster 25" with a multi cutter head. The finish on oak is better than on hard maple. On hard maple the chatter is more prevalent than on oak.

Softer woods it leaves a great finish that requires very little after planning work.

Tom

 

[derekcohen]

A number of the video and text reviews of the Hammer combo machines have been less than kind.  I do wonder what the real world experience of people with them has been , so thanks for the comments. 

Has anyone regretted the transition to combo machines from separates?

I take the advice on helical heads.  It seems the consensus is to avoid the straight knives.

I have three Hammer machines: A3-31 combo (7 years), N4400 bandsaw (12 years), and K3 slider (5 years). As far as I am concerned, these are simply fantastic machines. Never missed a beat, powerful, and solidly built. I really do not aspire to anything more expensive. And I'm a pretty serious amateur of 30+ years building furniture.

In regard to the A3-31, the silent helical head is just that, and the finish is first class. This is a compact, fully featured jointer-planer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Cheese]

Here's the Shelix page that Ron mentioned.  Edit...this is also a bad link.  [sad]
https://shelixheads.com/SHELIX_for_delta_15_inch_Planer_(DC-380)

And here's the distributor I purchased my Shelix from. It's nice to have options today because of the Covid supply line issues.
https://www.holbren.com/Byrd_Tool_B4631

Also, these heads are the charm on figured woods. Bird's eye maple is one of my favorites and all of the small, individual eyes remain in place. Prior to the Shelix, even when I only took a .005" cut with straight blades, the board was pock-marked because all of the eyes were removed. 

Here's what the milled surface looks like on maple.

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