Time for a new planer, but which one?

[Mini Me]

There are a lot of professional WW's who prefer the Tersa head to the segmented head due to the finished appearance being superior but I think that depends on the type of blades being used. I had to make the choice and chose a silent power head for several reasons, reduced noise, compact shavings & I was totally over having to deal with knicked blades having to be replaced and the carbide cutters seem to last forever.

Laguna seem to have QC problems made worse by their lack of customer service in fixing those issues. Both Hammer & Minimax don't seem to have a lot of QC issues but their customer service can be a problem as well in the US from what I can see from afar. If you buy the Hammer the in handle measurement gauge is a must, it is incredibly accurate and never loses that accuracy and if there was one reason I would buy the Hammer it is the measuring gauge, it makes me smile every time I use it. I haven't got a clue whether my CI tables are flat or not but what I do know is if they aren't the dips and hollows don't affect the results I get.

 

[Oilers]

I really appreciate all the information folks are sharing.

The info on the knives is unexpected.  The Tersa knives sound like a more realistic option than I had originally considered.  I’m interested in reduced noise, but I do appreciate sanding as little as possible.  More to think on.

As for machine testing, that won’t be an option with a Hammer.  And the Laguna would come in the crate.  Neither come with a cord installed. 

The feedback on the dial indicator for the Hammer is helpful.  I’ll take it onboard.  Having used the Felder D941 planer with the digital readout, and not having access to anything comparable at a lower price point I’m pleased to know that there are some interesting alternatives. 

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I really appreciate all the information folks are sharing.

The info on the knives is unexpected.  The Tersa knives sound like a more realistic option than I had originally considered.  I’m interested in reduced noise, but I do appreciate sanding as little as possible.  More to think on.

As for machine testing, that won’t be an option with a Hammer.  And the Laguna would come in the crate.  Neither come with a cord installed. 

The feedback on the dial indicator for the Hammer is helpful.  I’ll take it onboard.  Having used the Felder D941 planer with the digital readout, and not having access to anything comparable at a lower price point I’m pleased to know that there are some interesting alternatives.

I have the mechanical, digital hand wheel on my Hammer A3-41 and just love it. Once dialed-in, it's accurate to 0.1mm, and because it's mechanically tied to the drive mechanism it does not drift or require recalibration.

Regarding the Tersa heads, they are generally restricted to the upper-tier machines, with Entry- and Mid- level machines being limited to traditional straight knives, quick-set straight knives, and spiral/helical heads.

 

[Mini Me]

I doubt the average hobbyist woodworker would notice a great difference between Tersa and segmented SPIRAL heads, I reckon the finished surface on my spiral head is as good as I will ever want.

 

[ryan_k]

As for machine testing, that won’t be an option with a Hammer.  And the Laguna would come in the crate.  Neither come with a cord installed. 

The feedback on the dial indicator for the Hammer is helpful.  I’ll take it onboard.  Having used the Felder D941 planer with the digital readout, and not having access to anything comparable at a lower price point I’m pleased to know that there are some interesting alternatives.

If you're ever in Calgary, you can come check out my A3-31.

 

[nclemmons]

I have a Jet 12” with the helical head.  Very happy with it.  I did add a digital read out from Wixey which has been a great addition.  I looked at the Hammer’s but the delay on receipt was a year longer than on the Jet, and the price was about $2K higher. 

I got lucky on mine.  During Covid, Jet was really backed up on imports and my dealer called me to say he had found six units from the factory that had ‘slight shipping damage.’  He bought them all and I went to his store and saved $800 on one that had a slight scratch on the base.  A can of touch up paint from Jet and it was like new.

That was two years ago and I’ve been very happy with the unit.  Take your time getting it set up and aligned.  It took me and the dealer several hours on mine to get it close and then I spent probably another few hours tweaking it for proper cutting.

 

[WastedP]

A helical cutterhead is magnitudes quieter.  Rotating or even replacing inserts takes less time than swapping knives.  The chip size is smaller, too, so dust collection is more effective.  I am 100% with those who are recommending you swap the cutterhead on your existing machine.

I purchased a Laguna 15" planer with helical head a couple of years ago for a shop I was working at.  The Shop Fox model he had failed, a helical gear in the feeder got shredded.  I told him to have a couple of his guys take it to the tool/machinery repair place, and if it was less than $400 for the repair to go for it.  If it was more, I'd order the parts and do it.  I had purchased and installed a helical cutterhead for the machine about 18 months prior and had replaced all of the carbides a couple weeks earlier.  I felt it would be pretty easy to fix.

Instead, he opted to buy a new machine for $3k because the local dealer had one that day, right then.  It was delivered that afternoon, and it was the exact same GD planer as the Shop Fox W1742.  He sold me the broken Shop Fox for $400.  I bought a $13 gear, changed the transmission oil, and replaced and waxed the roller chain.  I'm into it for about $500 total.  It was heavy to move, about 650 lbs.  I loaded it in the truck with a sling and a forklift, but I unloaded it solo, by hand, and it nearly killed me.  And I didn't have to take it into a basement.

I saw the fresh-looking PX16 at the local Laguna dealer earlier this year.  I crawled all over it, and underneath, it is that same old planer that everyone (Grizzly/ShopFox/Powermatic/Jet) has been selling for decades, only now in a streamlined box.

 

[Oilers]

After all the advice, and a fruitless trip to Calgary, wherein I was unable to view alternatives, I phoned Felder Canada to get a quote for the A3 41D.  With the xylent head. 

I just haven’t loved the Taiwanese options.  I may wind up with the Laguna, but that is feeling less likely with each passing evaluation. 

I just don’t see many real upgrades from my present situation in the Taiwanese bunch, and if I’m spending money, I’d rather enjoy the outcome than constantly be second guessing.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

After all the advice, and a fruitless trip to Calgary, wherein I was unable to view alternatives, I phoned Felder Canada to get a quote for the A3 41D.  With the xylent head. 

I just haven’t loved the Taiwanese options.  I may wind up with the Laguna, but that is feeling less likely with each passing evaluation. 

I just don’t see many real upgrades from my present situation in the Taiwanese bunch, and if I’m spending money, I’d rather enjoy the outcome than constantly be second guessing.

While I don't have direct experience with the A3 41D, I have been quite happy with my A3-41 jointer/planer, and I suspect the dedicated planer will serve you well. I'd suggest ordering the mechanical digital display (and appropriate handle), it's very accurate and, once calibrated, doesn't drift or require batteries.

 

[Oilers]

While I don't have direct experience with the A3 41D, I have been quite happy with my A3-41 jointer/planer, and I suspect the dedicated planer will serve you well. I'd suggest ordering the mechanical digital display (and appropriate handle), it's very accurate and, once calibrated, doesn't drift or require batteries.
[/quote]

I did ask them to quote the upgraded dial/indicator.  Thanks for the +1 on the subject.  People seem to like the mechanism a lot. 

Anyone have any insight as to whether my mobility bat for my SCM 500p bandsaw will work with the mobility kit on the Felder?  I’d like to avoid storing extra bars all over. 

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

While I don't have direct experience with the A3 41D, I have been quite happy with my A3-41 jointer/planer, and I suspect the dedicated planer will serve you well. I'd suggest ordering the mechanical digital display (and appropriate handle), it's very accurate and, once calibrated, doesn't drift or require batteries.

I did ask them to quote the upgraded dial/indicator.  Thanks for the +1 on the subject.  People seem to like the mechanism a lot. 

Anyone have any insight as to whether my mobility bat for my SCM 500p bandsaw will work with the mobility kit on the Felder?  I’d like to avoid storing extra bars all over.
[/quote]

I can't speak to the SCM lifting bar, but the lifting bracket on the A3-41 (I assume it's the same on the A3 41D) is 200mm above the floor, with a 20mm hole.

 

[Oilers]

[/quote]

Anyone have any insight as to whether my mobility bat for my SCM 500p bandsaw will work with the mobility kit on the Felder?  I’d like to avoid storing extra bars all over.
[/quote]

I can't speak to the SCM lifting bar, but the lifting bracket on the A3-41 (I assume it's the same on the A3 41D) is 200mm above the floor, with a 20mm hole.
[/quote]

So, my SCM's lifting bracket/brake pedal is 230 mm off the floor, but the hole seems about the same size.  If I order, I'll try it with my SCM bar before I order the other. 

 

[Oilers]

Called Felder Canada, had a good chat about the A3 41D (planer only).

I asked about taking the wings off/putting back on a combo machine to get into basement.  The guy could not talk me out of the idea more effectively than he did.  He talked about the ways that dis/reassembly would take the tables out of square and the signficant cost to have someone out to try and refit the machine.  Not an enticing option.

He says they sell almost all machines with segmented heads these days.

I asked if they sold a lot of these:  they don't.

I asked where they're made:  made in a factory in Austria, which he said he'd been to.  All kinds of robots, he says. 

I asked for a quote, with the silent power head, the upgraded dial (with indicator), and wheels.  That was Monday.  Sadly, I haven't seen the quote yet (and am worried that it got caught in a spam filter and that I'll never see it). 

In the meantimmmmmme... I went into my local machinery retailer, and they've got a Oneway 1640 lathe sitting on the floor.  And I want to buy that right this very instant.  I'd use it less than the planer, but I do already have a planer, and a bunch of turning tools.... Should I wait another year for a planer?  Because the price definitely goes up another grand if I do, right?

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I can't speak to experience with Felder Canada, but I can say that working with Felder USA, it can take a week or more to get a quote back, so keep checking your inbox.

Regarding manufacture, I'm definitely no expert but it is my understanding that Felder has a pretty sophisticated manufacturing facility in Austria, where they produce nearly all of their machinery in-house. I say "nearly all", because I believe some of their FB x40 band saws are produced in Italy, but I can't be sure about that.

It is my understanding that the Hammer line was developed in the early 2000s to compete with the Pacific Rim machines (Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, etc...), but still made in Europe. Going up through the Felder line gets you increasing build quality, while the Format4 machines are full-on production machines.

One of the knocks I've heard against Felder is that they use a relatively light frame construction, with the machine cabinet being constructed out of CNC-formed/welded steel, as opposed to cast iron (Hofmann) or composite (steel filled with concrete) construction like the Martins.  That being said, my KF700 saw/shaper was too heavy for lift gate service and had to be delivered via flatbed, so "light" is a relative term here.

Good on Felder for taking the time to talk you out of removing/re-installing the tables on a A3-41. I could see that course resulting in a tremendous amount of frustration.

I'm not surprised that the A3 41D (planer-only) is a low-volume seller for them, as I suspect they sell a ton of the jointer/planer combo machines. That being said, I would suspect that the A3 41D would be a simple, robust machine that should be "plug-n-play", and should be much easier to get into your basement shop. Best wishes on your selection, if you do get the Hammer I'd be curious to hear your impressions.

 

[Peter Kelly]

The FB 710, 610, 510 & Hammer bandsaws are Asian machines. The FB 640 & their Re-Saw lines are made by ACM in Italy.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

The FB 710, 610, 510 & Hammer bandsaws are Asian machines. The FB 640 & their Re-Saw lines are made by ACM in Italy.

Peter, I’m curious where you’re getting your information regarding the bandsaws? I have a FB710 on order, and just received confirmation that it just arrived in Delaware from Austria. Ill be curious to look at the serial tag when it arrives….

 

[Joelm]

Peter, I’m curious where you’re getting your information regarding the bandsaws? I have a FB710 on order, and just received confirmation that it just arrived in Delaware from Austria. I’ll be curious to look at the serial tag when it arrives….

Here is the serial tag for my FB 510:
View attachment 1

and the motor:
View attachment 2

Both say made in Austria.

 

[Peter Kelly]

Sales department at Felder in Newcastle Delaware told me this when that FB series was launched. Country of Origin rules in EU are totally different than here in the US, if something is made in another country, shipped, unboxed, QC'd and re-packaged at my factory in Europe, I can now re-label it as "Made in Austria". Felder's CEO had put out a statement indicating "we reserve the right to source products from anywhere", a few years back, I'll see if I can dig up the copy I had.

Not a knock on the 510-710 series, it's just crazy expensive to manufacture anything in Austria which is why that other series is made in Italy at ACM.

 

[RussellS]

It is my understanding that the Hammer line was developed in the early 2000s to compete with the Pacific Rim machines (Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, etc...), but still made in Europe. Going up through the Felder line gets you increasing build quality, while the Format4 machines are full-on production machines.

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/company/history
"In 1997 Felder brought the new brand Hammer to life and it soon asserted itself with high quality yet affordable woodworking machines proving highly successful against cheap products from the Far East. In 2001 a further brand was introduced: FORMAT4, the premium brand for the highest requirements in business and industry"

The history talks a lot about all the different factories all over Austria being built.  "Hall" I assume means factory building.

 

[Oilers]

All,

It's been a week and I haven't heard from Felder Canada. 

In the meantime, I bought a Oneway 1640 that was available at my local shop.  Partially because it was available, and partially because I've wanted one for ages.  I have all the tools and bits to go on it, I just didn't have the lathe.  So I solved a problem that didn't exist and kicked my planer issue down the road.

I did, however, conclude that I won't be buying another Taiwanese copy of what I currently have.  I will be keeping my eyes out for reasonable used options. 

I really want to thank the folks here for their opinions.  You've all really helped me work through the issue.  I know what I'll be doing when I finally find the right option. 

Thanks, all,

Oilers