Tips for working with aluminum

[rvieceli]

[member=71889]festal[/member] Feeler gauges are wonderful things to have around. Shim stock is expensive. Feeler gauges are usually between $5-$10. Most closer to $5. Readily available at most outlets from Harbor Freight, Walmart, NAPA, Autozone.

Take the things apart and you have a bunch of shim stock. Can be stacked when you need an in between size etc.
https://www.harborfreight.com/feeler-gauge-32-piece-63665.html

Ron

 

[rmwarren]

Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

Exactly. Combined with setting the fence from the disk using a gage block it ensures a precise, parallel result. More and more I need to idiot-proof everything I do, lest I figure out a new & innovative way to dumb something.

RMW

1.5 thou doc?
What gage blocks are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, Depth of Cut, but in mm not thou, so ~1.5mm per pass. AutoPass ramps into each depth consecutively until you hit the target. It's a fantastic time-saver in general and IMO indispensable when cutting AL. 

I got several sets of cheap gage blocks in metric on Bangood or AliExpress, don't recall which. Augmented those with [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] brilliant suggestion elsewhere to use feeler gages for

 

[festal]

Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

Exactly. Combined with setting the fence from the disk using a gage block it ensures a precise, parallel result. More and more I need to idiot-proof everything I do, lest I figure out a new & innovative way to dumb something.

RMW

1.5 thou doc?
What gage blocks are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, Depth of Cut, but in mm not thou, so ~1.5mm per pass. AutoPass ramps into each depth consecutively until you hit the target. It's a fantastic time-saver in general and IMO indispensable when cutting AL. 

I got several sets of cheap gage blocks in metric on Bangood or AliExpress, don't recall which. Augmented those with [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] brilliant suggestion elsewhere to use feeler gages for

 

[rmwarren]

Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

Exactly. Combined with setting the fence from the disk using a gage block it ensures a precise, parallel result. More and more I need to idiot-proof everything I do, lest I figure out a new & innovative way to dumb something.

RMW

1.5 thou doc?
What gage blocks are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, Depth of Cut, but in mm not thou, so ~1.5mm per pass. AutoPass ramps into each depth consecutively until you hit the target. It's a fantastic time-saver in general and IMO indispensable when cutting AL. 

I got several sets of cheap gage blocks in metric on Bangood or AliExpress, don't recall which. Augmented those with [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] brilliant suggestion elsewhere to use feeler gages for

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does the Festool angle grinder offer any benefit that justify the cost premium over a yellow or red one?

The handle orientation looks good for cutting but then it's sideways for most grinding, the opposite of common right-angle grinders.

None of my grinders have variable speed, but I'm not sure I miss/need it.

The first thing I noticed is how smooth it runs, it doesn't have that hand numbing vibration like the Milwaukee. The second was noise level. The Milwaukees have a lot more noise, difficult to describe but a combination of gear noise, a higher level of noise and at both higher & lower frequencies. 

One thing to watch though is to thoroughly tighten whatever disc/item you put on the AGC because the brake is much more effective. I've had both a cut off disc and a Scotch-Brite disc come loose because the Festool comes to a halt in 1-1.5 seconds while the Milwaukee slowly takes 4-5 seconds to wind down. 

The handle orientation can be easily changed because the head rotates 180º by removing 4 screws.

The reduction in rpm does make a big difference for battery life. On speed level 1 (4500 rpm) the AGC is rotating faster than a RAS 115 at maximum 4000 rpm.  [blink]

I was removing mineral stains on stainless using Scotch-Brite discs. With a 4.0 battery I was getting about 30 min of run time. Lowering the rpm to level 1, the run time improved to almost double that.  [smile]  For heavy grinding or cutting I'd set the speed back to max but would install a 5.2 battery instead. The 4.0 battery balances the AGC nicely and that's my favorite combination.

[attachimg=1]

 

[rmwarren]

You were warned. The full process is:

• Rough cut stock 1+mm oversized
• Tighten the miter bar with the hard stop against the grinder face
• Using gage blocks, set the fence to the final dimension (40mm in this case), plus 0.5mm shim, loosen the miter bar screws
• Secure stock and grind the first edge, knock off the burrs
• Rotate stock and secure using the 0.25mm shim to offset the second edge
• Grind and deburr, which leaves you with the final dimension plus +/- 0.25mm
• Lap to final dimension using 120G wet/dry and a surface plate

Last chance...
Really bad video alert


Stock prep:

[attachimg=1]

Gage blocks & shims:

[attachimg=2]

Rough stock:

[attachimg=3]

Stock after < 4 minutes setting up & grinding:

[attachimg=4]

Stock after 60 seconds of lapping:

[attachimg=5]

I needed a 40mm gage block, thanks for providing the nudge to finally make it.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does the Festool angle grinder offer any benefit that justify the cost premium over a yellow or red one?

The handle orientation looks good for cutting but then it's sideways for most grinding, the opposite of common right-angle grinders.

None of my grinders have variable speed, but I'm not sure I miss/need it.

The first thing I noticed is how smooth it runs, it doesn't have that hand numbing vibration like the Milwaukee. The second was noise level. The Milwaukees have a lot more noise, difficult to describe but a combination of gear noise, a higher level of noise and at both higher & lower frequencies. 

One thing to watch though is to thoroughly tighten whatever disc/item you put on the AGC because the brake is much more effective. I've had both a cut off disc and a Scotch-Brite disc come loose because the Festool comes to a halt in 1-1.5 seconds while the Milwaukee slowly takes 4-5 seconds to wind down. 

The handle orientation can be easily changed because the head rotates 180º by removing 4 screws.

The reduction in rpm does make a big difference for battery life. On speed level 1 (4500 rpm) the AGC is rotating faster than a RAS 115 at maximum 4000 rpm.  [blink]

I was removing mineral stains on stainless using Scotch-Brite discs. With a 4.0 battery I was getting about 30 min of run time. Lowering the rpm to level 1, the run time improved to almost double that.  [smile]  For heavy grinding or cutting I'd set the speed back to max but would install a 5.2 battery instead. The 4.0 battery balances the AGC nicely and that's my favorite combination.

[attachimg=1]

Thanks. I have the DeWalt 20V and know what you mean about the noise, it has a definite grinding-gearbox sound.

Funny you mention the effect of the brake, as my first thought when you mentioned the locking nut earlier is that I never use a wrench on the DW anyway, just the friction of the nut against the disk, which I grab and tighten or loosen by hand. Never occurred to me it could loosen itself that way.

Just idle curiosity anyways, I have so many 4-1/2" grinders that 2-3 are stored in the house. A guy can dream, right?

RMW

 

[festal]

Hey Richard...what diameter O-flute cutter and at what rpm?

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] there is a major bout of yapping about Origin and AL over on the SO forum, short answer is:

3/16" O-Flute bit
Plunge 100
Auto speed 125
Speed ~3
(Auto) passes between 1.5 & 1.7 DOC

This is a place where AutoPass really shines, ramping into the cut mostly eliminates the tendency for the cutter to grab and jerk Origin around.

The beautiful thing about that jig is you really don't have to worry about it moving precisely parallel to the disc because you're going to continue to grind until the hard stop contacts the front edge of the table which IS parallel to the disc.

Exactly. Combined with setting the fence from the disk using a gage block it ensures a precise, parallel result. More and more I need to idiot-proof everything I do, lest I figure out a new & innovative way to dumb something.

RMW

1.5 thou doc?
What gage blocks are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, Depth of Cut, but in mm not thou, so ~1.5mm per pass. AutoPass ramps into each depth consecutively until you hit the target. It's a fantastic time-saver in general and IMO indispensable when cutting AL. 

I got several sets of cheap gage blocks in metric on Bangood or AliExpress, don't recall which. Augmented those with [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] brilliant suggestion elsewhere to use feeler gages for

 

[tsmi243]

• Tighten the miter bar with the hard stop against the grinder face
• Using gage blocks, set the fence to the final dimension (40mm in this case), plus 0.5mm shim, loosen the miter bar screws

I get it now- it's not there for the actual cut.  It's just a 3rd hand for setting the fence.  That's a really good system. 

How does that machine do on mild steel?

 

[rmwarren]

• Tighten the miter bar with the hard stop against the grinder face
• Using gage blocks, set the fence to the final dimension (40mm in this case), plus 0.5mm shim, loosen the miter bar screws

I get it now- it's not there for the actual cut.  It's just a 3rd hand for setting the fence.  That's a really good system. 

How does that machine do on mild steel?

The grinder is great on steel also. The disk is pretty well done, needs to be replaced which is the downside since it involves peeling it of and then cleaning adhesive using lacquer thinner. PITA.

Side note, did lacquer thinner get "improved" recently? My most recent gallon smells different.

RMW

 

[festal]

• Tighten the miter bar with the hard stop against the grinder face
• Using gage blocks, set the fence to the final dimension (40mm in this case), plus 0.5mm shim, loosen the miter bar screws

I get it now- it's not there for the actual cut.  It's just a 3rd hand for setting the fence.  That's a really good system. 

How does that machine do on mild steel?

The grinder is great on steel also. The disk is pretty well done, needs to be replaced which is the downside since it involves peeling it of and then cleaning adhesive using lacquer thinner. PITA.

Side note, did lacquer thinner get "improved" recently? My most recent gallon smells different.

RMW

One more question lol. How close to the wheel is the base of the jig? Hard to tell in the video but it’s not touching the wheel?
Do you have any drawings and measurements of the jig?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cheese]

One more question lol. How close to the wheel is the base of the jig? Hard to tell in the video but it’s not touching the wheel?
Do you have any drawings and measurements of the jig?

Richard mentioned a couple of thousandths.

 

[festal]

One more question lol. How close to the wheel is the base of the jig? Hard to tell in the video but it’s not touching the wheel?
Do you have any drawings and measurements of the jig?

Richard mentioned a couple of thousandths.

oops.  missed it.  appologies

 

[festal]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does festool grinder work with 5" wheels or only 4-1/2?

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does festool grinder work with 5" wheels or only 4-1/2?

Yup...check out this post for purchasing proper 5" guards.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-5-guard-or-a-4-12-guard/msg694048/#msg694048

 

[Coen]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does festool grinder work with 5" wheels or only 4-1/2?

Haha, you gotta be kidding me Festool...

In Europe they have the AGC 18-125.... so guess what; for 125mm wheels.
On FestoolUSA they have the AGC 18-115... so that is 115mm

Same machine if you ask me  [big grin]

5" is ofcourse 127mm. I have no clue if you guys get 2mm less than what your wheels are sold as or that we get 2mm more 

 

[festal]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does festool grinder work with 5" wheels or only 4-1/2?

Yup...check out this post for purchasing proper 5" guards.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-5-guard-or-a-4-12-guard/msg694048/#msg694048

Perfect.  Thank you.  i guess i'll be getting festool grinder lol after i figure out the model numbers

 

[Coen]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] does festool grinder work with 5" wheels or only 4-1/2?

Yup...check out this post for purchasing proper 5" guards.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-5-guard-or-a-4-12-guard/msg694048/#msg694048

Lol, I should have not ignored the warning "there was a new post ..." warning.

 

[rmwarren]

• Tighten the miter bar with the hard stop against the grinder face
• Using gage blocks, set the fence to the final dimension (40mm in this case), plus 0.5mm shim, loosen the miter bar screws

I get it now- it's not there for the actual cut.  It's just a 3rd hand for setting the fence.  That's a really good system. 

How does that machine do on mild steel?

The grinder is great on steel also. The disk is pretty well done, needs to be replaced which is the downside since it involves peeling it of and then cleaning adhesive using lacquer thinner. PITA.

Side note, did lacquer thinner get "improved" recently? My most recent gallon smells different.

RMW

One more question lol. How close to the wheel is the base of the jig? Hard to tell in the video but it’s not touching the wheel?
Do you have any drawings and measurements of the jig?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheese nailed it.

No drawings, everything was made up on the fl. The stock is 1/4" by 4", the 12" disk can't handle anything much wider. Length is based on the table depth plus another 20mm or so. Slots start around 25mm in from the disk.

RMW

 

[rvieceli]

Before anyone asks, the reason the 12 inch sanding disk won’t handle more than 4-5.5 inches or so is control. Since the disk is spinning rather quickly, rotating around the arbor. On one side of the arbor the rotation is up away from the table. On the other side it rotates into the table. The rotation away from the table wants to pull the workpiece up as well. On the other side the rotation pins the workpiece to the table and makes it easier to control the interface with the sander and the piece.

That’s why you would see big disk sanders in pattern shops because of the increased workpiece size. Not uncommon to see 20 and 30 inch disks.

I’m running two 12s one for metal and one for wood. By I rarely work with bigger pieces.

These disk sanders come up fairly frequently on Facebook marketplace, they seem to have fallen out of favor for people using the belt ones instead.

If you have the space and the extra budget, I’d suggest at least a 20 in you want work with 6-9.5 inch stuff.

Ron