Tips for working with aluminum

[Cheese]

Just noticed that 3M has reworked their Cubitron II grinding wheels and cut-off wheels. They're now called Cubitron 3 and the grinding wheels have a 50% longer life and cut 14% faster. The cut-off wheels have a 300% longer life and cut 10% faster than Cubitron II. Better yet, 3M is maintaining the same pricing as the older Cubitron II discs.

From 3M:
"To maximize simplicity and value to our customers, the current 3M™ Cubitron™ II Portable Bonded Wheels range will be replaced by 3M™ Cubitron™ 3 Performance Abrasives. Customers will benefit from a wider product choice, better performance and optimized sustainability with no change in list price. Thanks to the manufacturing technology advances we have made, the price/performance differential between the two ranges means there is no need to retain the existing (Cubitron II) range."

Here's the very same Type 27, 4-1/2" x 7/8" x 1/4" disc in Cubitron II & Cubitron 3 colors.

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https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...d-wheels-product-transition-guide-english.pdf

 

[smorgasbord]

I will tell you that over a years worth of prototypes and several revisions later I have what i think is an industry first, a beveling bit that is designed to go into a wood router, and it just flat out works.

Just wondering if one could remove the bearing and use this in a CNC machine like a Shapeoko Pro. To do this, I'd want to know the actual geometry and feeds/speeds for different materials, so I could create a bit in the CNC library and have Fusion360 setup the toolpaths automatically.

Thoughts?

 

[luvmytoolz]

Just wondering if one could remove the bearing and use this in a CNC machine like a Shapeoko Pro. To do this, I'd want to know the actual geometry and feeds/speeds for different materials, so I could create a bit in the CNC library and have Fusion360 setup the toolpaths automatically.

Thoughts?

If you're meaning for machining steel I wouldn't think the Shapeoko would be anywhere near rigid enough. Even aluminium I'd think wouldn't be greatly suitable for it, although with low DOC's and slow going it might get it done eventually? I'd imagine it would be like a screaming banshee while doing it though.

 

[smorgasbord]

The AL blade is interesting, I've had my little DW battery chop saw pretty much dedicated to AL all year. Been cutting a lot of 8020. Cheap blade from Amazon has been working great.

Thanks so much for that! I bought the same Tomax blade (12" version) for $30 last week and it's done a fine job on my aluminum cutting, both the 30-series extrusion and even a 1.5" thick block of aluminum. I did get a paste to apply to the blade, which I guess helped, too.

And the blade works great on plastic, too.

 

[smorgasbord]

If you're meaning for machining steel I wouldn't think the Shapeoko would be anywhere near rigid enough. Even aluminium I'd think wouldn't be greatly suitable for it, although with low DOC's and slow going it might get it done eventually? I'd imagine it would be like a screaming banshee while doing it though.

I've cut aluminum on my Shapeoko Pro before, and with good sharp bits and the right speeds/feeds it does just fine if you have a blower (manual in my case) to get chips out of the way. Can't go too slow as well as not too fast. Deep pockets where evacuating chips is an issue would be worrisome, though.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] heres a follow up on the metal beveling router bit from Dirt Church. Got the opportunity to try it out yesterday on a larger counterbore. Works great.
https://dirtchurchindustries.com/collections/garage-shop-products/products/beveling-bit

[attachimg=1]

Ron

 

[Packard]

Travers Tools just sent me this crib sheet for various 3M abrasives. Keeping track of 3M Roloc discs can be confusing because the 3M Product ID is driven by the disc backing material. Thus a Roloc disc for stainless will be 777F if the backing is Scotch-Brite but will be 785C if the backing is Fibre.

The same situation exists with their abrasive belts.

And the Scotch-Brite hand pads have always been confusing because they keep adding variations but never really delete older versions. I'm glad to see they finally consolidated them down to 5 commonly used versions from 12.

FWIW...here's the Scotch-Brite pad equivalents for grit sizes.
7448...800-1000
7447...360-500
8447...320-400
7446...120-150
7440...80-150
https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/...4_A&utm_content=288751598&utm_source=hs_email

I found the “777F” designation weird.  3M makes a spray adhesive (used frequently in the picture framing industry) that is called “777”. 

You would think 3M would avoid that level of name duplication. 

Addendum:  A google search shows that they still market #777 adhesive, but probably to diehard users.  An “improved” version is called “#77”.  I’m not sure what the improvement would be.  Very little stress was involved in #777 applications.

 

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] heres a follow up on the metal beveling router bit from Dirt Church. Got the opportunity to try it out yesterday on a larger counterbore. Works great.
https://dirtchurchindustries.com/collections/garage-shop-products/products/beveling-bit

[attachimg=1]

Ron

Ron that's really clean, no chatter. Just use a palm router?

RMW

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] heres a follow up on the metal beveling router bit from Dirt Church. Got the opportunity to try it out yesterday on a larger counterbore. Works great.

Looks good Ron...nice surface finish. How fast was it turning? That looks like steel?

So that works well for an inside chamfer, along those same lines, here's my favorite for small outside chamfers, a Heliburr.

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[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] and [member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] that was in a Milwaukee M18 trim router at max speed.

Incidentally this thing is a very nice little router. Light actually works well, good visibility and it has a brake! Turn it off and it stops instantly.

Ron

 

[Packard]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] heres a follow up on the metal beveling router bit from Dirt Church. Got the opportunity to try it out yesterday on a larger counterbore. Works great.
https://dirtchurchindustries.com/collections/garage-shop-products/products/beveling-bit

[attachimg=1]

Ron

Our machine shop used some bits with those replaceable carbide cutters to machine steel (mostly) and aluminum (occasionally).  But the milling machine that they used for this probably was spinning at less than 1,000 rpm and probably closer to 500.  And they had automatic flushing water soluble lubricant.

I cannot imagine that the bit in a router would be anywhere near ideal cutting speeds.  Apparently it works.  But it seems somewhat like asking a thoroughbred to run on its hind legs.  An insane handicap.

The carbide cutting speed is 2,800 feet per minute (aluminum);  or 800 feet per minute (carbon steel).

A one inch diameter bit spinning at 20,000 rpm would mean that you advance the bit about 2 - 3 minutes to advance one foot.  I would not have the discipline to do that.
https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/cuttingspeeds.php

 

[Coen]

###

I don't know how off your monitor is on the calibration... but that thing you blurred it still perfectly readable on my screen.

 

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] heres a follow up on the metal beveling router bit from Dirt Church. Got the opportunity to try it out yesterday on a larger counterbore. Works great.
https://dirtchurchindustries.com/collections/garage-shop-products/products/beveling-bit

[attachimg=1]

Ron

Our machine shop used some bits with those replaceable carbide cutters to machine steel (mostly) and aluminum (occasionally).  But the milling machine that they used for this probably was spinning at less than 1,000 rpm and probably closer to 500.  And they had automatic flushing water soluble lubricant.

I cannot imagine that the bit in a router would be anywhere near ideal cutting speeds.  Apparently it works.  But it seems somewhat like asking a thoroughbred to run on its hind legs.  An insane handicap.

The carbide cutting speed is 2,800 feet per minute (aluminum);  or 800 feet per minute (carbon steel).

A one inch diameter bit spinning at 20,000 rpm would mean that you advance the bit about 2 - 3 minutes to advance one foot.  I would not have the discipline to do that.
https://littlemachineshop.com/reference/cuttingspeeds.php

[member=74278]Packard[/member] there are numerous purpose-made pneumatic chamfering tools that run at 30K RPM.

Someone just finally came out with a way to do it with a router. I'll add one of those bits to the arsenal soon.

Thanks for validating it Ron.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] and [member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] that was in a Milwaukee M18 trim router at max speed.

Incidentally this thing is a very nice little router. Light actually works well, good visibility and it has a brake! Turn it off and it stops instantly.

Ron

I just looked again and noticed the smallish diameter and depth of your counterbore, then checked the bit and saw the bearing is maybe 1/4" diameter and 1/8" deep. Impressed that it will work in that small an opening, nice execution on the maker's part.

RMW

 

[rvieceli]

[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] that is a 3/4 inch diameter counterbore that is 1/4 inch deep.

Ron

 

[festal]

I recently stopped at Coremark Metals (formerly Discount Steel) to pick up some aluminum plate. Noticed this new Evolution 14" chop saw designed to cut metal. I was surprised that something with all of these features was available for metal cutting. Has anyone used this before or have any personal experience with something like this for metal cutting? I'm used to the basic cold saw approach where  to get miter cuts you change the angle of the material rather than the angle of the saw blade.

The hold-down clamps were interesting as they hold the material down to the bed AND also push it against the fence.
The clamps also have interchangeable faces which include v-blocks or knurled flat surfaces.
The bed has 20 mm diameter holes in it for dogs...don't know how well that works.  [tongue]

All in all, it seems like a pretty robust tool with the cast aluminum base and the price includes a 66 tooth carbide blade for steel,
that's gotta be worth $100.
https://store.evolutionpowertools.c...p-saw-heavy-duty-metal-cutting#specifications

I don't have personal experience with this one but Evolution saws are highly rated.  I did see a bunch of youtube videos pop up on this new model. 

 

[Cheese]

I recently stopped at Coremark Metals (formerly Discount Steel) to pick up some aluminum plate. Noticed this new Evolution 14" chop saw designed to cut metal. I was surprised that something with all of these features was available for metal cutting. Has anyone used this before or have any personal experience with something like this for metal cutting? I'm used to the basic cold saw approach where  to get miter cuts you change the angle of the material rather than the angle of the saw blade.

The hold-down clamps were interesting as they hold the material down to the bed AND also push it against the fence.
The clamps also have interchangeable faces which include v-blocks or knurled flat surfaces.
The bed has 20 mm diameter holes in it for dogs...don't know how well that works.  [tongue]

All in all, it seems like a pretty robust tool with the cast aluminum base and the price includes a 66 tooth carbide blade for steel,
that's gotta be worth $100.
https://store.evolutionpowertools.c...p-saw-heavy-duty-metal-cutting#specifications

 

[rvieceli]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] I have the regular Evolution chop saw. This one:
https://store.evolutionpowertools.com/products/s380cps

I have had it for about 15 months. Got it from ZORO and I believe I used a 20% off coupon for it.  Overall I have been pleased. I does a good job cutting and the cut finish is very good. Seems to hold angles well.

The v blocks are to hold tubing and angle irons in diamond point up orientation so that the blade is contact with a smaller profile in the cut. Supposed to prolong blade life since it keeps it cooler. They also suggest cutting flat bar on edge instead of flat for the same reason.

That looks to be basically the same power unit they use in all the saws with just the miter saw base unit.

The saw cuts well and makes a lot of smallish chips which can be a bit hot but the piece itself doesn't get that hot. It is noisy and hearing and eye protection is a must. I have mine mounted on a old rolling miter saw base that folds up.

Ron

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] I have the regular Evolution chop saw. This one:
https://store.evolutionpowertools.com/products/s380cps

I have had it for about 15 months. Got it from ZORO and I believe I used a 20% off coupon for it.  Overall I have been pleased. I does a good job cutting and the cut finish is very good. Seems to hold angles well.

The v blocks are to hold tubing and angle irons in diamond point up orientation so that the blade is contact with a smaller profile in the cut. Supposed to prolong blade life since it keeps it cooler. They also suggest cutting flat bar on edge instead of flat for the same reason.

That looks to be basically the same power unit they use in all the saws with just the miter saw base unit.

The saw cuts well and makes a lot of smallish chips which can be a bit hot but the piece itself doesn't get that hot. It is noisy and hearing and eye protection is a must. I have mine mounted on a old rolling miter saw base that folds up.

Ron

I have an older Milwaukee 6190-20 (circa 2004) that works well. I really do prefer the Evolution blades as they last 10x longer than the Milwaukee blades.

I fabbed this stainless railing and burned through 2 Milwaukee blades before I was even 1/3 finished with the project...I made maybe 12 cuts total with the 2 Milwaukee blades. I purchased the Evolution stainless blade and finished the railing project and then used it to cut stainless, aluminum and copper/brass for the next 5-6 years. I just recently replaced it with another 14" Evolution stainless blade. Good blades at a reasonable price.

I'll have to try cutting flat bar on edge...I've always cut it flat and didn't really like the chatter that goes along with it...thanks for that suggestion.  [smile]

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[Cheese]

I picked this up a few years ago and use it to deburr thin aluminum sheets. It was originally designed to deburr the guide rails on chain saws.

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Recently I tried using it on a piece of 12 ga 6061 aluminum. Here's a view of the burr that's left around the entire perimeter after shearing.

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And here's after. It's easier to use than a hand file and faster than using a Shaviv, AFA or Noga deburring tool.

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https://www.zoro.com/pferd-universal-edge-sharpener-13025/i/G2666820/