TKS 80 and Dado set

six-point socket II said:
Please take this as a thought - nothing more.

What I was wondering about is the fact that the TKS 80 absolutely needs to be grounded for the safety feature to work. (Unlike all the Class II machinery Festool and its competitors make)

So what I was thinking earlier (but threw the thought out, because ultimately SawStop is from the US and works in the US), might there be a liability issue that, depending on circuit/panel used, there would be no grounding, thus the safety feature wouldn't work? Or if it was hooked up to a panel/circuit that was not done to code/ by a professional.

(Remember: Festool explicitly says that the TKS 80 can't be used with the new SYS-Powerstation because there is no classic grounding.)

Anyone know how this handled with the actual SawStop saws?

Kind regards,
Oliver
Neutral and ground go to the same place in your panel. Having the ground wire is just a double redundancy for safety when a tool isn’t double insulated.

Lots of modern 240v appliances in the US either require, or have an option to wire them for ground as well, but this does not effect the saw stop system. The blade is just hooked up to a computer that senses the change in connection to ground of the blade (resistance I would assume) when it is touched by something of a certain level of conductivity to ground. This is independent of the saws electronics and their connection to ground through the wiring.
 
I just read this read this thread for the first time and I have a question. Isn’t the TKS 80 marketed and generally used as a portable job site saw in Europe? Predominantly not as a permanent installation in a shop setting? If so, I would agree that 220/230V would not be very suitable here as it is not generally available on a job site. No new home here (and most businesses) is built with convenience plugs for 220/230V. There is 220/230V available in the panel for dedicated uses like ovens, clothes dryers, air conditioners, etc. but never convenience plugs unless it is a custom home built to owner spec by one of us. Portable saws here are all 110V. Sure there are few Festool crazed hobbyists like us that might buy one for stationary use in their home shop but nothing like the volume that a company like Festool would need.
 
Festool doesn't (edit: stupid contractions) make fixed/stationary saws.  So I wouldn't say they market it as. stationary or portable, just as a saw.  In generally though, I would say all that festool makes is marketed at some level of portability.  But as folks like Alex have pointed out in the past he doesn't drag his CS 70 around to different places, even though it is in theory portable.

I would generally say most people use jobsite saws in fixed locations, mainly in that big cabinet saws are a dying beast.  If you are going to go down that road now, I think most folks would buy the very fancy European sliding saws now. Folks buy jobsite saws because they are small, and can be built into their work bench setups well.  Plus once you have a track saw, the scope of table saw usage gets much reduced.

The basis of the 220V bit is in part it means Festool doesn't have to do a redesign for it.  But also that many folks here want 220V stuff, in part because they want it for anything high power.  Far as plugs, yes, most folks won't have a 220 plug in their living room, but they are very normal in garage.  Now with EV cars becoming normal, no one builds a garage without 220 outlet in it, and some areas/codes now require 220 plugs, and plugs like NEMA 14-50s to be in the garage to support EVs and EV chargers.

Festool should offer a 110V version, after all it's far more than just North America that would use it.  But a lot of folks would be happy to have 220V options for tools, that's all many folks ask for is the option, it's not like the items don't exist as is. No one is asking for a 3 phase model, or a 48V DC model.  Making products that have some tailoring to local markets is fine, and often a must. But when something also already exist, that is where people would like to have that too as an option. Not everyone aligns to their local market, it's why they look for stuff from other places.
 
greg mann said:
[member=5277]Alex[/member], am I right that dadoes are not allowed in Europe?

That is correct.

"Using DADO blade is prohibited by EN and IEC standards. Therefore this is not offered in the European market. "

DeformedTree said:
Festool does make fixed/stationary saws.  So I wouldn't say they market it as. stationary or portable, just as a saw.  In generally though, I would say all that festool makes is marketed at some level of portability.  But as folks like Alex have pointed out in the past he doesn't drag his CS 70 around to different places, even though it is in theory portable.

All saws Festool makes are considered mobile. Of course you can choose to leave a mobile saw in one place.

I bring my CS 70 to the job as needed. Even when using it at my own place I have to take it down after every use as I have no permanent place for it. It is currently very obnoxiously placed in my hallway with only a foot to spare, but I can't put it outside beause of heavy rain all week.
 
I know it is probably confusing why we (the USA) refer to household power as 110 or 120 to those outside the US, but when we do many (including me) are talking about the same thing. Same for 220 and 240.

Yes, US homes are supplied with 240v power, but it is not run throughout the house, it's used for high power equipment like water heaters, HVAC, large power tools, EV charging stations, etc.

My line voltage normally runs a couple volts over 120 as can be seen below in this screenshot from my Sense energy monitor webapp. Both phases are close in voltage, but when I first got the Sense energy monitor 3 years ago that was not the case. I found out that the voltage of each phase differed by over 6 volts. I had 121.4 on L1 and 127.6 on L2. I knew this delta was a little wider than normal so I called my utility and they came and checked it out. They found out the transformer supplying my home and three others was bad and replaced it. Line voltage on each leg has been within two volts since.

I found this article interesting but know nothing about the website.

Why Is There 230-Volt Power in Europe and 120 Volts in North America?
 

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Alex said:
All saws Festool makes are considered mobile. Of course you can choose to leave a mobile saw in one place.

I bring my CS 70 to the job as needed. Even when using it at my own place I have to take it down after every use as I have no permanent place for it. It is currently very obnoxiously placed in my hallway with only a foot to spare, but I can't put it outside beause of heavy rain all week.

My apologies, I thought you had said something to the effect that you can move it but it's just to bulky to carry around a lot and it generally stays put. I might have got you confused with someone else.

But you touch on something, which is those who don't have a permanent spot for a saw. Often people have portable saws set up that stay in a spot for a long time, as they have no fixed shop, but that doesn't mean the saw doesn't find a home in the same spot for years.
 
six-point socket II said:
What I was wondering about is the fact that the TKS 80 absolutely needs to be grounded for the safety feature to work.
I see no technical reason why the TKS 80 should need a PE for the safety feature to work, unless they f***ed it up completely by making it rely on a ground loop through the human. Which would be a bad idea as anyone wearing insulated shoes (= any plastic soles) would be up for a surprise when touching the blade (and only the blade).

 
Allenbach said
Sure there are few Festool crazed hobbyists like us that might buy one for stationary use in their home shop but nothing like the volume that a company like Festool would need.

I wonder if the US sales of Mafell Erika 70 have gone from a few per year to 1-2 per year when they changed it to 220 v. For some extra money, you could get the Erika 85.
 
jimbo51 said:
I wonder if the US sales of Mafell Erika 70 have gone from a few per year to 1-2 per year when they changed it to 220 v. For some extra money, you could get the Erika 85.

I doubt TWT will ever tell house many they sell, but clearly they sell. It's not like there is a big web forum presence, I think folks with them just stay low key.  They sell enough of them for it to be worth TWT time/effort.

I'm really not sure why someone would buy the 70 over the 85.  Even before they went back to the EU model, I couldn't see much reason for it.  Anyone spending that money on the saw can/will wire a 220V plug up for it.  And I really doubt many contractors going to jobs move one around.  Lack of 220V dust extractors in the US is the bigger issue, and part of why I keep saying Festool should sell some of their stuff in 230V here.  There is a market.

I wish there was an Erika 90, so you could get thru a 4x4 in one pass.
 
I actively use a Erika 70 for on-site fitting, and I really appreciate that as a “regular” 120V machine I can plug it into any convenience plug and get to work. It also runs fine on my Honda EU3000Handi generator.

With the recent Erika facelift, all models are still produced but only in 230V format. At that point, yes I don’t see a reason why a user wouldn’t opt for the Erika 85, except that it wouldn’t be as convenient for “quickie” on-site work in North America, though it would be fine for extended installs where it’s justifiable to take the time to plug into the oven/drier outlet.

If something untoward were to happen to my Erika 70, I’d likely try to import a GB 120V Precisio 50, or  transition to a Makita 7.5” cordless slider and one of the 8.5” table saws..... For Shop work, I have a KF700SP with a 3200mm slider arriving sometime in January, so that’s covered.....
 
Tom,

Completely reasonable.  I would be very curious to know how many folks are in the US with Erika's running them to job sites.  I suspect them not making the update in 120V may be an indicator of sales of that saw.  Clearly from a shear price stand point one doesn't gain much with the 70.

Of course I'd also like to know how many CS70/50's have been smuggled into the new world.  I think there is a reasonable case for owning both a CS70 and a TKS80 together.  One mainly for cross cuts where slide function is great, the other for ripping work where the saw stop function is "more needed" do the the odds of an accident with that type of cut.

There is a market for this style/type of Saw in N.A., it's just the issue that the only officially offered option is extremely expensive and offered via just 1 retailer.  I like many/most folks never heard of a push/pull saw without being on here and still took me a long time to understand "why" of them.  I'm pretty sure if a brand that sells at homedepot/lowes ever brought such a saw, they would sell great and everyone would act like it was a new thing.
 
I debated an Erika 85 when I moved from Chicago.  They had none available due to their backlog of orders nor did they have a unit on their showroom.  So I went with a Sawstop Jobsite Pro and kept my Kapex.  I’ve been very happy with it.  That with an MW1000 gives me a portable saw and out feed table.  Less money and more flexibility than the Erika as much as it was tempting.

It looks like you either have to spend a lot of money for the 85 on accessories or face a lot of compromises with regard to wide panel ripping, dados, and other options we think of being easy on a table saw. 
 
Bob D. said:
...
Yes, US homes are supplied with 240v power, but it is not run throughout the house, it's used for high power equipment like water heaters, HVAC, large power tools, EV charging stations, etc.
...
This is actually very similar to Europe - here most houses (and most newer flats) get also 400V 3-phase as their connection. In flats one usually does not route 3-phase sockets from it, but there is nothing preventing such.

In shop use, 400V is actually very common, and was even more in the past.
You can make 3-phase motors which do not need any electronics nor brushes etc., so a couple decades ago it was way cheaper/simpler to get a 3-phase motor even for low power loads. It was the obvious choice for stationary and semi-stationary tools and still is where suitable as no/limited electronics and no brushes tends to mean lower running costs.

Onto the topic.
I do not see how the TKS80 can (safely) accept a dado set. The break module is different and is most likely not able to safely handle a heavy(ier) dado set.
 
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