To Domino or not to Domino? That IS the question....

[Stevenski]

After several years of lusting after a Domino but never pulling the trigger because I have never felt that my usage would not justify the outlay, I am getting very close.

I have recently been asked - for the first time - to take on a "paid for" job. My thinking is that I will use the fee to buy a Domino and tell myself that I essentially got it for free Also, I think that it would be particularly useful for the project itself.

However, it seems that as usual I have terrible timing when it comes to buying tools:

1. There was an upgrade this year it seems and there are two models currently available - the older 500 and newer 500R (I am not considering the cordless version). However the 500 R does not seem to be available yet here in Poland. Are the upgrades significant enough to warrant the extra money and waiting time? Is the fence of the older 500 really so poor and prone to slippage? Are the new pins really going to change user experience?

2. I understand that the patent expires next year and there may be some significant market changes eg price adjustments, new players, Festool introducing even more significant upgrades...

So my dilemma is: Do I get the old DF 500 because it will be more than good enough for my limited and low volume usage? Do I hunt/wait for the 500 R because the upgrades really do make a difference and are worth the extra money? Do I stick with dowels for the time being and wait to see what happens next year?

Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated!

PS I can't say how much I am just itching to get my hands on a Domino and only common sense has been holding me back so far

 

[bertv]

Re Question numer 1: Buy it in Germany. Rubart is my preferred seller. With a VAT-number it is even taxfree.

And the thing about patents is that after they expire there is not always a flood of similar products coming to the market. Manufacturers need to see a profitable market before investing in setting up production & the Domino is maybe too much of a niche product to make a solid business case.

There is nothing wrong with buying second hand, but in my country used DF's don’t come around often and can be pricy. (I own a DF 500 and have never regretted buying it.)

 

[luvmytoolz]

Personally as I have the DF500 and the DF700, if I was buying now I would prefer the newer DF500 with the D handle. It makes all the difference in the world for handling the DF700. But if it was very far away from release the normal model is also a very good unit and will serve you well so it may not be enough of a reason to wait an abnormal amount of time.

As alluded to above there's always plenty of talk about clone machines coming out as the patents are expiring, but based on the clone tools I've bought, don't hold your breath waiting for a clone machine that is significantly cheaper, AND is good quality.

I simply don't believe that will happen with the high end tools, not just based on how marketing and sales work, but also my past experience with clones. The last one being a Lamello Zeta clone that more or less looked the goods, but drove me up the wall with it's extreme "fiddly-ness". It really was just unusable.

Needless to say I ended up selling it and buying a new Zeta and have never looked back!

Buy the Domino now if you need it, you won't regret it! And to save money, buy the cutter set and the tenon cutters from findbuytools, they're super cheap and excellent quality! They'll save you a small fortune!

 

[Lincoln]

Personally as I have the DF500 and the DF700, if I was buying now I would prefer the newer DF500 with the D handle. It makes all the difference in the world for handling the DF700. But if it was very far away from release the normal model is also a very good unit and will serve you well so it may not be enough of a reason to wait an abnormal amount of time.

As alluded to above there's always plenty of talk about clone machines coming out as the patents are expiring, but based on the clone tools I've bought, don't hold your breath waiting for a clone machine that is significantly cheaper, AND is good quality.

I simply don't believe that will happen with the high end tools, not just based on how marketing and sales work, but also my past experience with clones. The last one being a Lamello Zeta clone that more or less looked the goods, but drove me up the wall with it's extreme "fiddly-ness". It really was just unusable.

Needless to say I ended up selling it and buying a new Zeta and have never looked back!

Buy the Domino now if you need it, you won't regret it! And to save money, buy the cutter set and the tenon cutters from findbuytools, they're super cheap and excellent quality! They'll save you a small fortune!

I think only the new cordless has the D handle, the new corded is the same form as the existing.
But, I'd still hold out for the new release.

 

[ChuckS]

For owners of the existing DF500 who have a 3D printer, it shouldn't be too difficult for them to fabricate a detachable handle (I use a handplane wooden handle). The D handle is not conducive to making vertical cuts when the machine is in its standing position. It's simplier and less tiring in holding the barrel to make plunges when there're a lot mortises to mill.

 

[Stevenski]

Re Question numer 1: Buy it in Germany. Rubart is my preferred seller. With a VAT-number it is even taxfree.

Thank you for pointing me to Rubart! The price difference is insane - even with tax

for example:
Df 500 R set delivered to Poland = 1.050 EUR
DF 500 R set bought from cheapest supplier I can find in Poland = 1.250 EUR (+25%?!?!)

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I have both Domino machines. I bought the DF700 first while I was still doing work for others and the job more than paid for it. I needed the 14mm capability for both the tenons and for connectors for that project. At the time, I bought the Seneca adapter so I could do the small Dominos if I needed to with that machine, but ironically never used the adapter. (recently sold it to another FOG member) Sometime in 2024, a "used" DF500 came up in the Classifieds at Sawmillcreek. I say "used" because technically, the original owner cut a half dozen mortises with it, but then put it away. So it was pretty much the equivalent of new. I use it constantly for projects. IMHO, the Domino machines are perhaps the most worthy Festool tools there are. They are unique; they are easy to use and they are incredibly accurate when you take the time to use them properly.

 

[mino]

Thank you for pointing me to Rubart! The price difference is insane - even with tax

for example:
Df 500 R set delivered to Poland = 1.050 EUR
DF 500 R set bought from cheapest supplier I can find in Poland = 1.250 EUR (+25%?!?!)

idealo.de ... Contorion and some others are OK too. Rubart is great for the parts/accessories/supplies availability, they are pretty big on those.

 

[onocoffee]

Since you're in Poland and have access to the newer 500R, I'd get the R version. While I have the 500 EQ, I presume that the additional pins will offer you more possibilities, like on the DF700. I don't think the pins will "change" the user experience, just give you more points for referencing on your work.

And while the patents may expire next year, which might mean more "dominos" flooding the market, will they be worth owning? A Wen or Kreg (or DeWalt) track saw will get the job done, but they don't provide the user experience of the Festool (or Mafell) saws. This is where the difference will lie.

 

[smorgasbord]

Just came here to say that the answer to the actual title is: "To Domino"
"Not to Domino" should not be an option.
Once you have a Domino, you will find all sorts of uses for it.

Historically, cutting mortises accurately has been problematic. Even with drill presses, drill guides, etc. Read any old text (like Tage Frid), and they'll tell you to size the tenon to fit whatever mortise you cut, since that's way easier to tweak. But, the Domino stands all that on its head.

For instance, I've designed zero clearance inserts for my tablesaw crosscut sled and my mitersaw back fence. I register the inserts by having dominos sticking out one side that get inserted into the openings in the aluminum extrustion that make up the back fence on my crosscut seld and mitersaw. The height of the fence on the Domino can be set very accurately and repeatably by using calibrated shims (like small feeler gauges, but thicker). This ensures that my inserts are perfectly flush with the front of the fences.

In other words, it's not just a mortiser, it's tenoner, since you can place mortises exactly and repeatably, and the pre-made tenons are also very accurately milled. All sorts of joints have been invented because you needed skill to create really good mortise and tenon joints - again because of the mortise. When that's no longer the case, you'll find that you may not want to use other joints, because getting a strong loose tenon joint is so easy and accurate.

 

[ChuckS]

Or, the focus can be on "To domino NOW or to domino later," given the fact that some people want to see a corded DF500 with the D handle.

If you have another 15 to 20 years of woodworking life or if you have none or just one or two projects for which M&T is the joinery of choice, you sure can afford to wait a bit. All others should get their DF500 and learn how to use it ASAP.

 

[Neil Lickfold]

If I was to be buying a 500 model, I would get the new one that is a mini 700. But is a battery model, I like the features and layout of the new 500. Not seen the new battery 500 here for sale yet in NZ. They probably have quite a few of the corded models to shift first.

 

[ReneS]

I have the corded Domino 500, and i love it.

I am amazed every time I use it by how fast and accurate it is.

I find ot comfortable and easy to use, although it took a little practice.

 

[derekcohen]

I am a traditionalist, that is, preferring traditional mortise-and-tenon joinery over mechanical fasteners. I created a number of ways to cut these, both by hand and machine. 10 years ago I purchased the DF500 to aid in building a kitchen. Once done it returned to its sustainer and the shelf. About three years ago I decided to give it a second go as a mortising machine. It is fine in this regard as the furniture I build is medium-sized - no long tables with gargantuan frames requiring deep mortises into thick legs. A few beds, but then I return to my router. For frame-and-panels and the average carcasses (when not dovetailed), the DF500 is great. Note that it is not limited in width of mortise since one can cut as wide as one chooses. There are set widths for standard dominos, but you can make custom dominos if you prefer (I do) when loose tenons are the aim.

Many, many mortises here for a bed head. The rounded ends squared with a mortise chisel ...







In a workshop, a battery or power version makes little real difference. The battery version is one less cord to connect, but a dust collection hose is still required.

What I will point out is that the Festool warrantee is not valid from one country to another. I purchased my Domino new from the UK and live in Australia as it was considerably cheaper this way. I trusted the reputation of Festool not to get me into trouble. It worked out.

Regards from Perth

Derek