Toasted CT22 Motor Module (thanks to Dust Deputy) !

[rrmccabe]

I am not entirely positive about this next statement, so don't quote it as gospel. I believe that the worst scenario you could have would be to have antistatic hoses between the DD and the vac, and between the DD and tool. In this situation, both hoses will be doing their jobs for their areas, but the DD becomes a "charge bottleneck", and all the difference in charge will be concentrated to a smaller area.  It will build up until it can rapidly discharge.

Again, I am not totally positive about this, but if you used non-antistatic hoses, the charge would be spread out across a longer distance. You would be less likely to have a rapid discharge of high magnitude. That doesn't mean you wouldn't have any discharges, but they would be smaller and not necessarily directly coupled to the vac. But of course, this means you would have more nuisance shocks for the operator.

I can follow that logic.

I just need to find better way to discharge that energy before it gets to the vacuum.  They do sell a metal cyclone which I think would be beneficial but its pretty expensive. But less than a Festool motor module !

 

[Corwin]

You guys just aren't using enough copper tape!  [tongue] [tongue] [tongue]

But seriously, if you have a complete path to ground, you should not have an excessive (any?) buildup of static.  The plastic Dust Deputy is stated as being "injection molded from static dissipating plastic" -- however, there is obviously not enough graphite in the mix to do the job properly.  I suggest to anyone having an issue with their cyclone installation to add copper tape from the DD's inlet to the outlet (and the fittings, if needed.)  If you object to the possibility/probability of wear-and-tear of the copper tape with repeated insertion and removal of the hose fittings, then do as I have and install one of Festool's antistatic hose connectors at each of the cyclone's ports and apply the copper tape between (I cut one of the hose connectors in half and used the two halves) -- this will make it more plug-n-play and eliminate any wear-and-tear on the tape. 

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Corwin,
While the tape can (arguably) connect the inlet and outlet hoses, it does not automatically connect the cyclone itself, nor any holding chamber below it. If a large charge builds up in those areas, it can still result in a sudden discharge into the antistatic portions of the system. The operator wouldn't feel any nuisance shocks, but the vac still could.

I wish I had a better example to explain this, but the only one I can think of is the antithesis (total opposite) of a plumbing anti-hammer chamber. Instead of the external chamber absorbing an errant shockwave when a valve closes, the chamber causes the shockwave when the piston suddenly moves. Everything is stable at first, but as charge builds, it would be like the piston moving farther and farther away. Until it reaches a maximum threshold, and then it snaps down and rapidly injects extra water (electrons in this case) into the system from their stored location.

 

[rrmccabe]

I somewhat finished the copper pieces today and connected them with wire.  Keep in mine I was running a cord out the front which was direct to motor until I replace the controller.

I emptied my bag and UDD onto the floor and began to suck it up. I could feel static in the hose and touching my copper pieces would give me a big jolt. Wooo Hooo.

I was a little disappointed that my trial run was no improvement and actually worse.  Then I realized I was running the temp cord out front which was a two wire zip cord with plug. Doh !

So I opened it back up with the intent to add a three wire cord and realized it would be just as easy to unplug the festool electronics from the power bus bar  and tape them up and plug the motor on directly. Same connectors...

So I did that and buttoned it back up.

No static whatsoever now.  So it appears to be progress. 

 

[Corwin]

And they all laughed at the way I taped up my cyclone...

[eek] [eek] [eek] [blink]  Heh, heh, heh.  Now the only thing I am shocked about is why others are having such a problem...   [tongue]

The day I received my (then new) ClearVue cyclone I experienced static shock from the get go.  I didn't have any copper tape on hand, so I stripped the insulation off each end of a short length of wire, inserted the bare ends between the hose and the hose ends where they connected to the cyclone's ports.  Eliminated the problem.  Next day I purchased the copper tape at the local garden supply and went to town -- or was that the other way around?  Anyway, it has never been an issue since.

 
.

 

[rrmccabe]

Few more pictures.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I'm curious, did Steve say anything about how static electricity can destroy the control module? Just wondering how this is possible.

Thousands of volts through a piece of electronics that runs off about 10 volts. That's how.  [tongue]

Yeah, alright, I could imagine that myself.  [blink] You make it sound like my question was dumb. Remember, there are no dumb questions, only dumb people [wink].

Alex, sorry if you took it that way. I've defended other members on the forum that were the target of accusations of asking dumb questions, so I wouldn't do that myself. The smiley was intended to let you know it was said in jest. I had stated in another thread on the same topic that I'm no electrical engineer and have only a layperson's understanding of the situation. My reply to you is evidence of that.

 

[greymann]

As I read this thread, I'm wondering if DD has made some "improvements" in the last year.  I've had mine for over a year now and have never had any hint of a shock.

Dick

 

[rrmccabe]

Are you running any tape at all?    My instructions had a piece inside the front elbo. But that's it.

The new "improvements" including 2-3 feet of tape.

I really think the Festool products should have a steel cyclone on them as standard.

 

[TomGadwa1]

You guys just aren't using enough copper tape!   [tongue] [tongue] [tongue]

But seriously, if you have a complete path to ground, you should not have an excessive (any?) buildup of static.  The plastic Dust Deputy is stated as being "injection molded from static dissipating plastic" -- however, there is obviously not enough graphite in the mix to do the job properly.  I suggest to anyone having an issue with their cyclone installation to add copper tape from the DD's inlet to the outlet (and the fittings, if needed.)  If you object to the possibility/probability of wear-and-tear of the copper tape with repeated insertion and removal of the hose fittings, then do as I have and install one of Festool's antistatic hose connectors at each of the cyclone's ports and apply the copper tape between (I cut one of the hose connectors in half and used the two halves) -- this will make it more plug-n-play and eliminate any wear-and-tear on the tape. 

It looks like the folks at Dust Deputy should conduct some more tests to assess the ability of the injection molded conductive plastic to properly drain off the built up static charges. It has to be really effective to save the microelectronics in the CT units. The discharge of static electricity that we do not perceive is often enough to damage the junctions within an integrated circuit this is why COMPLETE draining of the charge before it can build up is required. I think the guy who said buying bags is easier and safer for the CT is 100% correct!

 

[greymann]

rrmcabe,

Only the small pieces of tape.  The only other difference I can see is that I did get the extra tube running down to the box to provide suction to keep the bag in place.  Don't know if that makes any difference.

Dick

 

[rrmccabe]

Sounds the same Dick. I also have the 1/4 tube that pulls the bag out to the box.

Rich

 

[rrmccabe]

Just noticed this today.

Can't be good !

Easy fix.

 

[Jaybolishes]

I'm glad you posted this. Thumbs up

 

[leakyroof]

I've read this whole thread and still marvel at how I never really have static issues with my UDD, nor used the TAPING method ala Corwin.  I did add the tiny amounts that Oneida included with the UDD.
But, I also changed their hose that runs from the Cyclone to the Vac inlet with the Boom Arm hose from Festool. 50mm Anti-Static.
As I always post, I've even used my set-up with my floor sander to no ill effects on the aging CT-22 that I bought in 2004.
Sorry to hear about all the troubles.  [blink]

 

[rrmccabe]

My gut instinct based on what is mentioned by others above is that it comes back to their use of anti-static plastic. The tolerance level or QC is questionable in my mind.

I never had any static until I installed the UDD.  Never even thought about it.

 

[JoggleStick]

I've got the smaller DD that I use constantly... I love the concept and idea of the cyclone before the dust extractor but the design faults of this unit are inexcusable!

Firstly in Australia we are being slugged $179- for this unit... We get all the hoses and two 5gallon pails.... Firstly on setup the unit is so top heavy it topples over... In the instructions you are required to place a brick in the bottom of the pail for 'stability'... WTF! But worse, much worse than this... the top plate that fits into the top of the cyclone is only held by a small 'lip' that is an extremely poor friction fit- Almost from day 1 the top 'plate' popped out and now every single time I try and move either the dust collector or pail it pops off, bump it or bump the main suction hose and the plate pops off, pull the hose out straight- topples over. I must stop the vacuum and put this plate back in at least 40 times a day... It drives me nuts- but I can't see any way to fix it. Maybe I could epoxy the plate on... But then it's more top heavy and I don't think epoxy will stick to it.... Duct tape doesn't help... It's truly a shit design...
I hate it, absolutely hate it, but I keep using it because it works so well when it's working....
I've noticed the static, but not to an extreme amount like mentioned here.

At any rate there are some very serious design flaws in this unit and whilst there is little I can do from Australia, I believe that Oneida should be taken to task on this...

There is no justification- the manufacturer has serious design flaws that must be fixed.
Anything less is simply unacceptable....

 

[JoggleStick]

On another note... Has anyone made/tried a Thien separator?

I'm over this DD- I'm using this on site and want/need something that is more reliable.

Suggestions anyone?

 

[peter halle]

I've got the smaller DD that I use constantly... I love the concept and idea of the cyclone before the dust extractor but the design faults of this unit are inexcusable!

Firstly in Australia we are being slugged $179- for this unit... We get all the hoses and two 5gallon pails.... Firstly on setup the unit is so top heavy it topples over... In the instructions you are required to place a brick in the bottom of the pail for 'stability'... ! But worse, much worse than this... the top plate that fits into the top of the cyclone is only held by a small 'lip' that is an extremely poor friction fit- Almost from day 1 the top 'plate' popped out and now every single time I try and move either the dust collector or pail it pops off, bump it or bump the main suction hose and the plate pops off, pull the hose out straight- topples over. I must stop the vacuum and put this plate back in at least 40 times a day... It drives me nuts- but I can't see any way to fix it. Maybe I could epoxy the plate on... But then it's more top heavy and I don't think epoxy will stick to it.... Duct tape doesn't help... It's truly a stuff design...
I hate it, absolutely hate it, but I keep using it because it works so well when it's working....
I've noticed the static, but not to an extreme amount like mentioned here.

At any rate there are some very serious design flaws in this unit and whilst there is little I can do from Australia, I believe that Oneida should be taken to task on this...

There is no justification- the manufacturer has serious design flaws that must be fixed.
Anything less is simply unacceptable....

I have been using the same model of Dust Deputy as you for about 15 months.  I came up with a way to keep it from tipping over and make it work nicely with a CT-22.  The lid and it's lip had only recently started to aggravate me.  Especially last week.  I have been doing some investigating on a more secure method and there are screw type lids and adaptors available for 5 gallon pails.  The issue is that the ones I have seen had a very strange top and I have not investigated if the separator cane be mounted without much hassle.  Honestly I think that is the future.

Peter

 

[rrmccabe]

Is there any reason you guys just don't build a plywood box and screw the cyclone to it?  Similar to the UDD?

I am using bags in mine. Just lift the lid and replace the bag.