Torsion box table with dog holes

acer66

acer66

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
97
Hi there,

Kinda advanced weekend warrior here and I build myself a 4x8’ torsion box assembly table.
Building some kitchen cabinets I realized that my precision needs to be improved.
Example, I use a big speed square to align the track saw tracks etc..

Anyway among other things I want to incorporate dog holes in the much needed rebuild of the torsion box.

So my question is are dog holes useful all over the top or would be a section at one end be useful enough?

Reason for asking is that a Festool mtf replacement top goes for around $100 which could be incorporated into the work top or would it make more sense to bite the bullet and get some tools to make my own big mtf style worktop?

Thank you.
 
acer66 said:
Hi there,

Kinda advanced weekend warrior here and I build myself a 4x8’ torsion box assembly table.
Building some kitchen cabinets I realized that my precision needs to be improved.
Example, I use a big speed square to align the track saw tracks etc..

Anyway among other things I want to incorporate dog holes in the much needed rebuild of the torsion box.

So my question is are dog holes useful all over the top or would be a section at one end be useful enough?

Reason for asking is that a Festool mtf replacement top goes for around $100 which could be incorporated into the work top or would it make more sense to bite the bullet and get some tools to make my own big mtf style worktop?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

I have the drill jigs, etc.  My general feeling is to just get the MFT and scrap expectations of using the holes for cutting precision.  It's very dependent on your dogs and the firmness of your MDF, and it's just not worth the bother IMHO.  My holes are more for clamping now and the occasional stop for using a sander/domino with.  A small field is good enough for that.  I still don't regret my purchase of the jigs, as they did come with a nice 20mm forstner and vertical drilling jig.
 
I'm with Birdhunter here.

Some guys -- all hobbyists for those I know and they never or rarely make a new top after the first one so far! -- buy a drilling kit and make their on mft tops, but I prefer to use the time and money for the kit to do furniture. People who do woodworking for a living, and use and destroy enough mft tops may justify making their own with a kit. But since they can write off their spending as business expenses, there's far less incentive for them to do so. I don't think they can breakeven with the time they spend on drilling and making the top vs the $100 expense -- unless their billing rates are very low.
 
Looks like Birdhunter has a good aim and brought it home on the first shot. 😛👍🏽🍻

Thank you all and off to get a top I go.
 
I have a MFT jig and have used it to make a small top for a special vise. It worked well, but was a tiresome process. I would not want to do this for a full size top.

I trust the MFT hole precision over relatively short distances. I usually verify using a Woodpeckers framing square if I want  high precision.
 
[member=4427]acer66[/member] please let us know where you are getting a replacement MFT/3 top for 100. They seem to be going for $175-180 today.

Ron
 
I have an entire 4' x 8' top that I use as an assembly table. I did it with the Parf system over a period of a few days almost exactly 2 years ago. Just after that, I drilled a few more holes in another tabletop to use as a cutting station, to not have to cut into the other one. If I had it to do over, I think I would do it as a torsion box, combining the Paulk system with it.
I have used the Parf system to make some clamping jigs for various operations since, so I would say that it is definitely worth having, but I am in a commercial cabinet shop where the most random thing can come up at any time. I have made a few spoil board/clamping boards for my Shaper Origin with it. Speed/efficiency are very important and make it worth the cost.
My situation is not typical though, I don't have to be mobile and have more space than anyone could use.
All of that to say, for a guy in a small shop, who may only need to replace his top one every 4-5 years, it may be better to just buy one. There are a few sources for them now and you might even find a local shop who would make one for you on a CNC. This may be beneficial if you want an alternative sized top. It could always be an insert in a larger table top.
 
That's a full-size top, not the Kapex one. The dimension for a Kapex - 32-1/6" × 20-11/16" (new is about $100US). The description in the eBay ad is confusing though.

Sounds like a good deal to me if it's a MFT/3 basic top in excellent condition for $100 US and shipping is included, as it's from Hartville Hardware with a 100% +ve feedback history. A new MFT/3 basic is about $140US from Lee Valley Tools.
 
Nice but I guess someone else thought the same way and both are gone now.🥺
 
Oops. [eek]

Let's hope it wasn't someone who saw your post here in this Forum.
 
All good, same seller also has used Kapex ones but he wants $125 for those.

Do you think they are big enough to make sense on an assembly table?
 
the Kapex MFT is smaller, only about 32 inches by 20 3/4

MFT/3 top is 43-3/8" × 28-1/4"

You may be better off buying from Lee VAlley for a full size one.

Ron

 
I’ve found the MFT tops tend to sag. I just flip them over and they are just fine. Because they sag, I don’t expect high accuracy over the full length. I guess one could devise a support for the top.
 
acer66 said:
Hi there,

Kinda advanced weekend warrior here and I build myself a 4x8’ torsion box assembly table.
Building some kitchen cabinets I realized that my precision needs to be improved.
Example, I use a big speed square to align the track saw tracks etc..

Anyway among other things I want to incorporate dog holes in the much needed rebuild of the torsion box.

So my question is are dog holes useful all over the top or would be a section at one end be useful enough?

Reason for asking is that a Festool mtf replacement top goes for around $100 which could be incorporated into the work top or would it make more sense to bite the bullet and get some tools to make my own big mtf style worktop?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
If you get the Parf guides and drill all the 3mm holes in the top you can start by drilling one section of 20mm and a strategic selection of other 20mm holes. Then it is a trivial job to add a few more at any time. There is no need to drill all of them at 20mm. This gives much more flexibility than drilling all of them at once while not sacrificing the accuracy of the grid.

This is what I do to any horizontal work surface or even equipment carts I make. The investment in time to drill a 3mm grid is small, the flexibility to add 20mm grid pattern holes later very simply is wonderful.

The lack of 20mm holes for items like screws to fall through is nice.
 
Just to add one more ingredient to the stew....I too have the Parf guide II system and it is brilliant. Last year I made replacement tops for both of the MFTs at work and one for home out of a single sheet of high quality MDF from a local cabinet supply business. The cost of the MFT sheet was < $30 at that time. I did two isometric layout tops and one replacement top to match the original....I also slapped a good bit of Osmo on both surfaces of the replacement tops. The process is pretty easy, if a little tedious. The precision and accuracy are impressive too. It took me around 75 minutes per top not counting Osmo cure time. IMO, the results are superior to the Festool tops....the Osmo helps resist glue and other cruft from marring the top. Various contributors to the FOG have reported mixed results from CNC'd MFT replacement tops (Shaper origin excepted). For the original poster, a 4' x 8' would make a really nice bench if you are tall enough to take advantage.....there's a guy in Texas who made one that is a very nice platform for work. [jawdrop]
 
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