TPC Quadrive looks disappointing.

[Lime green]

I've never owned any Festool tools and I need to upgrade my impact driver and was thinking about getting the TID 18 / TPC Quadrive combo.  However, after watching this video, I don't think I can pull the trigger because the TPC drill looks like it still underperforms in the torque department despite an alleged 40% increase over the PDC.

The parts in the video that lead me to this conclusion are at 1:45 and 8:12 and 9:15.  In a nutshell, this drill just looks weak.

 

[greg mann]

I have the pdc and I really don’t understand why anyone would want more torque in a hand held drill. I used it to drive a 4 inch auger thru solid clay to insert a pvc pipe under my sidewalk. The only time it stopped was when I had to take my finger off the trigger when it would catch on a rock. I felt like it had enough power to send me flopping around the tool like a rag doll. Okay, that’s hyperbole, but you get the point, right?

If the tpc has 40% more torque you won’t be able to safely use it all.

 

[denovo]

I've owned the 2nd gen Milwaukee drill, current Hilti SF 6H and Festool PDC.  The Milwaukee had so much torque you couldn't use it to put a screw through anything.  The bit would just cam out.  Slower speed was better but it was slow and still a struggle. 

The Hilti is better and functional but you need to pay attention while using it. 

The PDC on the other hand does everything without issue and it wouldn't bother me if I forgot the impact at home.  I could manage without an impact with the Hilti but I'd be going home for the impact if I just had a Milwaukee drill.  I've also never felt the need for more power or torque with the PDC.

 

[Birdhunter]

I bought the TID18 for a project requiring a lot of pocket holes. Yes, I paired the pocket holes with 6mm Dominos..

I have several Festool drills including the older 15v impact (I’ll be selling it), but the TID18 has become my favorite of the whole bunch.

The ergonomics are just right and it has gobs of very controllable power.

 

[mino]

This was discussed ad nausea.

Unlike the DRC/PDC generation, the TPC is explicitly NOT a competitor to the heavy-huty drills of the other makers. It is just that simple.

It is a SMOOTH tool that is designd first and foremost to protect the user /and the tool/ and provide as controlled experience as possible. It provides controlled speed at about twice the power of the T18/C18 series.

So if you need raw power, Festool is not there for you anymore. Sorry. Also the (European) corded DR20 monster-drill was discontinued. Festool apparently decided to leave the "raw power" market.

This manifests in the conservative torque-break on the TPC. There is effectively no "hard" torque specified for it either. The electronics does not allow a "lock-torque" situation. This is unlike on the DRC/PDC which were a "construction site" tools in their secondary roles and had a "hard-torque" scenario. For this reason the TPC is generally better at doing the tasks the PDC could do but it does not expand the range of tasks. In cases which relied on the lock-torque it can even be slightly weaker.

This can be good, or bad. Depending on what you need.

In any case, comparing the TPC on torque is completely pointless - the tool does no even try to compete. By design.

 

[Peter Kelly]

If the Festool impact driver does not meet your needs I’d suggest checking EBay for a Japanese-made 18v one from Makita, bare tool is usually just under $200 including shipping. It is a far and away better tool than the “import” products shown in that video.

I think the model number is TD172DZB.

 

[Lime green]

This was discussed ad nausea.

Unlike the DRC/PDC generation, the TPC is explicitly NOT a competitor to the heavy-huty drills of the other makers. It is just that simple.

It is a SMOOTH tool that is designd first and foremost to protect the user /and the tool/ and provide as controlled experience as possible. It provides controlled speed at about twice the power of the T18/C18 series.

So if you need raw power, Festool is not there for you anymore. Sorry. Also the (European) corded DR20 monster-drill was discontinued. Festool apparently decided to leave the "raw power" market.

This manifests in the conservative torque-break on the TPC. There is effectively no "hard" torque specified for it either. The electronics does not allow a "lock-torque" situation. This is unlike on the DRC/PDC which were a "construction site" tools in their secondary roles and had a "hard-torque" scenario. For this reason the TPC is generally better at doing the tasks the PDC could do but it does not expand the range of tasks. In cases which relied on the lock-torque it can even be slightly weaker.

This can be good, or bad. Depending on what you need.

In any case, comparing the TPC on torque is completely pointless - the tool does no even try to compete. By design.

I'm confused.  Doesn't the TPC have more torque than the DRC/PDC?  If so, how are those considered construction site tools?  As far as protecting the user, both the Hilti and Metabo have torque control to protect your wrist, so I don't see how the Festool offers an advantage over those brands.

 

[JINRO]

I'm all good with it's torque and power since Festool is good for precision.  I'm more concerned about gear locking mechanism as I saw numerous posts they don't lock in when switching gears.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I had hoped they would have tested the objective and subjective feel of the drills - when screwdriving too. But no, it’s just another torque/speed test, again..

The TDC/TPC as mentioned is about a bit more. But I know, Metabo is eating into Festool territory. I’ve handled a couple of their latest drills, and they’re good, very good.

I just bought a new TPC, mostly for the speed in 4th, trigger/electronic feel of speed control and a fraction for the Centrotec system. The brute torque is left to my never-to-sell 2008 Makita 3 speed with percussion. It’s speed control is just beautiful and the well controlled torque from its 4 pole motor. But, it’s big, heavy.. and will destroy your wrist if careless.

A fault I see again and again, on YouTube and elsewhere, is that people use 2nd and even 3rd gear for screwdriving - that’s a big no-no! Always 1st gear for driving in wood - the following gears are for drilling. A TPC’s 2nd gear might be one of the exceptions, as it’s range is very low.
The chance of cam out past 1st. just skyrocket with each gear up.

The Makita Impact mentioned by Peter Kelly - its superb. So is the 171 model - fragments In difference..

As a conclusion, the TPC is a very good all rounder, maybe one of the best. But you who can access Metabo and Mafell’s latest offerings - be sure to take a look.

 

[huntdupl]

If the Festool impact driver does not meet your needs I’d suggest checking EBay for a Japanese-made 18v one from Makita, bare tool is usually just under $200 including shipping. It is a far and away better tool than the “import” products shown in that video.

I think the model number is TD172DZB.

I have the Makita TD148DZ, purchased on Dec 2015. I'm not a tradesmen, but its been kept in a hot/humid shed, tossed around in muddy crawlspaces, and left in the rain on occasions. Its still a solid tool with more power than you need (although nice if you have a hand full of lag bolts). It'll still keep up with any current Makita or Milwaukee. Power isn't everything - don't succumb to the torture test or head to heads (as I did coming on 7 years ago). Finesse is more important and anything you buy today will have enough power to do anything. Want smooth? Look into the Makita oil impulse or Milwaukee Fuel Surge. I think of Makita first when it comes to impact drivers, never Festool, though this 12v is a fantastic tools which I grab for most often.

 

[Lime green]

If the Festool impact driver does not meet your needs I’d suggest checking EBay for a Japanese-made 18v one from Makita, bare tool is usually just under $200 including shipping. It is a far and away better tool than the “import” products shown in that video.

I think the model number is TD172DZB.

I've seen this one and it's compelling as I do have a couple of Makita batteries and chargers.  I do have a made-in-japan Hitachi Triple Hammer, I wonder if it's also made with superior quality to the versions made in China.

 

[Peter Kelly]

I actually reach for this when I'm in the shop near the air compressor:https://www.amazon.com/SP-Air-Corporation-SP-8102BU-4-Inch/dp/B00CHIOTSM

[attachimg=1]

No batteries required.

 

[mrboult]

Yeah, LOL. Most tool tests i watch like this really are a bit head scratching. The T18 that's in my hands almost daily is the most exquisite all round drill I have ever used by an immediately noticeable margin, compared to any other drill I pick up.

The amazing thing is that this was true when I bought my first one 10 years ago, and it's still true today. Unlike my normal day to day year to year, I just spent 5 months of a film set build. Every time I saw one of the carpenters on my crew with a drill I found interesting I offered a swap for the day. . . Panasonic was the only notable absence, but modern Makita, Hilti, Metabo, Dewalt, Hilti, Fein were all around. 

My conclusion. . .  T18 all the way baby!!

Never tried to sell anyone on festool drills, but I've owned almost all of them and currently have 5 I think. . They're the bee's knees.
Sold my DRC(PDC) for a second T18 a long while back, but missed the high speed and depth stop rod enough to consider getting the new one.

What else did I learn from trialing all the modern drills?
- Today far more than 10 years ago I would be happy using a non festool drill. 10 years ago the completion was much larger and heavier than the T18. This isn't the case anymore. And while the precision still doesn't compare the general standard is way better than when I first discovered Festool and all other drills suddenly felt like budget bargain items.
- Dewalt make reasonably ergonomic stuff these days, compared to 10 years ago when I loathed every Dewalt drill I handled instantly.
- There's a new(ish) Makita Impact that is real thin and bloody lovely. Instanty liked it better than my TID18 for reasons I can't put my finger on. And I also simply can't fault the TID18. So make of that statement what you will
- That powerful and Tiny Milwauke drill everyone raves about is an amazingly compact and ergonomic piece of engineering, but just felt heavy and overpowered in use. An odd feeling for such a tiny drill
- I love centrotec

 

[Jeff Zanin]

I received my TPC yesterday so have not had a chance to test it out yet.  I bought it for the range of power and flexibility with the various chucks.  Not quite "one drill to rule them all" but should be able to do most things reasonably well.

On quick inspection: it is heavy, and the manual is terrible - not even an explanation of the gears.

 

[Lime green]

- I love centrotec
[/quote]

Why do people like Centrotec?  I've never used it so I'm curious.

 

[ChuckM]

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I don’t own or have any experience of Festool drills - but I’m in complete agreement with [member=61423]denovo[/member]. Torque isn’t everything. I also run two Hilti SF6H’s - (gen 1 and gen 2) and they’re super machines. They’re also pretty much the only drill drivers I’ve ever used where I take the trouble to actually use the torque setting dial. The difference between ‘not enough’, ‘too much’’ and ‘just right’ is alarmingly small. I often find myself wishing for something less brute-force aggressive - but I’m heavily locked into their 22v battery platform - so maybe in the future.

Tip of the day = if cam-out is an ongoing issue for you (irrespective of what brand drill you own) - check out the Wera Impaktor bits from Germany. The heads are coated with microcrystalline diamond, and they feel like they’re glued into the head of the screw you’re driving. Expensive but rather wonderful.

 

[FestitaMakool]

[member=22067]mrB[/member]
What you write pretty much sums up with my experience over the years too.

Centrotec is (was?) a good system. Some of the later kits are well overpriced, and the focus on quality has went down. Especially the screwdriver handles.
The latest incarnation of using Wera bit (Centrotec) holder is not close true to the Centrotec vision.
The former, Wiha made, holder is probably the THE best handle, but it was missing out on the original which relied on the Centrotec chuck. The original handle handled anything the drill would, except bits straight in the handles socket. The later Wiha version turned that upside down, holding bits and especially the longer 50mm and 100mm bits like it was welded to the handle.
But this one couldn’t hold a Centrotec chuck or any attachments meant for the drills, as 90° adaptor, offset adaptor, regular jacobs chucks.

A tip to those who have the newer handles - you can use a regular bit holder/handle with std. 1/4” hex holder (non locking versions), just the regular magnetic cylindrical holders to use on all the chucks and right angle and offset adaptors - in case you need hand driving only.

I have a Festool rant in my head right now, as I se more and more going down on quality and system as a whole - but keeping prices high(er) at some products.
There are some positives, many tools compete with the larger brands, keeping Festool innovations and quality up front, without raising prices more than necessary - that’s how it should be. Centrotec add-ons are not one of them.

 

[Cheese]

Ya, I've mentioned this so many times that I'm starting to bore myself. Festool marketing...where are they?...do they even exist? Centrotec a great idea, now let's get to the implementation stage.

Are we at the implementation stage yet?  Don't know...release new Centrotec items and then obsolete them within 2-4 years...then release more new Centrotec items and obsolete them within a couple of years. This is all goofiness, a properly functioning marketing group would have at this time literally hundreds and hundreds of Centrotec items for sale, instead we're rewarded with what...60-75 items. Big flipping deal.

The Festool product support effort for Centrotec is just abysmal at best, I've pretty much given up on the system and just rely on the 1/4" hex system as EVERYONE supports it.

 

[mino]

I'm confused.  Doesn't the TPC have more torque than the DRC/PDC?  If so, how are those considered construction site tools?  As far as protecting the user, both the Hilti and Metabo have torque control to protect your wrist, so I don't see how the Festool offers an advantage over those brands.

Some history lesson:

The DRC/PDC series were developed back in 1990's for the Festool's sister Protool brand which focused on Construction and Industrial applications. The same as the DR 20 drill and some other tools which are -today- branded as Festool.

The focus of the Protool brand being construction, the design of the tools was NOT for finnesse first, power second like Festool. It was the opposite. Power first, finesse (and safety) second.

TTS, the parrent company of Festool created the Protool Brand from the Czech Narex industrial tools portfolio they bought in 1997 augmented with a collection of specialist tools from smaller German makers.

In 2013 TTS discontinued the Protool brand, as it did not work economically and "switched" over those tools which sold well to the Festool and Narex brands. DRC/PDC were some such tools.

What this means is that -when introduced- the DRC/PDC were some of the most powerfull drills on the market. They not only had a very high top speed at 3800 rpm but ALSO a very high (hard) torque at around 80 Nm. They did include a safety current limiter but that was -not- to protect the user but the drill. The DRC will twist your arm in no time ... When under heavy load, the DRC/PDC will SLOW DOWN but will NOT turn off. This is as with the other "raw power" drills from the likes of Makita, Dewalt etc. with which the drill was designed to compete. Then.

Now, the TPC -does- have a 40% stronger MOTOR, BUT:
- it also has about 25% higher lowe speed setting /so 25% of your addl torque at the motor goes for higher low speed/
- it has a pretty conservative torque break

This combined means that:
- at low speed, the TPC can *sustain* about 15% higher loads, like when you are mixing concrete style loads ..
- the TPC WILL STOP BEFORE the DRC/PDC would - since their "hard torque" is higher than the TPC torque break would allow

In short:
The TPC is a "Festool", designed for excellent controlability and usability. It is better at this compared to the DRC/PDC series.

The DRC/PDC were "Protool" rebranded as Festool, designed for high power /for the time/ with passable usability. This means a PDC is slightly better at "raw power-almost-blocking use" like the torque tests while it will be worse in everything else.

Hope helps. The TPC is really a different beast to the "other drill drivers" on the market. In the same way a CXS is a different beast to everything else on the market in its class. When these fit your task/workflow, they are almost unbeatable at it.

But they are no raw-power monsters. To see that it is enough checking the torque officially specced for the TPC on the Festool site. If you need raw power, there are other brands to serve you.