TPC Quadrive looks disappointing.

[Lime green]

I'm confused.  Doesn't the TPC have more torque than the DRC/PDC?  If so, how are those considered construction site tools?  As far as protecting the user, both the Hilti and Metabo have torque control to protect your wrist, so I don't see how the Festool offers an advantage over those brands.

Some history lesson:

The DRC/PDC series were developed back in 1990's for the Festool's sister Protool brand which focused on Construction and Industrial applications. The same as the DR 20 drill and some other tools which are -today- branded as Festool.

The focus of the Protool brand being construction, the design of the tools was NOT for finnesse first, power second like Festool. It was the opposite. Power first, finesse (and safety) second.

TTS, the parrent company of Festool created the Protool Brand from the Czech Narex industrial tools portfolio they bought in 1997 augmented with a collection of specialist tools from smaller German makers.

In 2013 TTS discontinued the Protool brand, as it did not work economically and "switched" over those tools which sold well to the Festool and Narex brands. DRC/PDC were some such tools.

What this means is that -when introduced- the DRC/PDC were some of the most powerfull drills on the market. They not only had a very high top speed at 3800 rpm but ALSO a very high (hard) torque at around 80 Nm. They did include a safety current limiter but that was -not- to protect the user but the drill. The DRC will twist your arm in no time ... When under heavy load, the DRC/PDC will SLOW DOWN but will NOT turn off. This is as with the other "raw power" drills from the likes of Makita, Dewalt etc. with which the drill was designed to compete. Then.

Now, the TPC -does- have a 40% stronger MOTOR, BUT:
- it also has about 25% higher lowe speed setting /so 25% of your addl torque at the motor goes for higher low speed/
- it has a pretty conservative torque break

This combined means that:
- at low speed, the TPC can *sustain* about 15% higher loads, like when you are mixing concrete style loads ..
- the TPC WILL STOP BEFORE the DRC/PDC would - since their "hard torque" is higher than the TPC torque break would allow

In short:
The TPC is a "Festool", designed for excellent controlability and usability. It is better at this compared to the DRC/PDC series.

The DRC/PDC were "Protool" rebranded as Festool, designed for high power /for the time/ with passable usability. This means a PDC is slightly better at "raw power-almost-blocking use" like the torque tests while it will be worse in everything else.

Hope helps. The TPC is really a different beast to the "other drill drivers" on the market. In the same way a CXS is a different beast to everything else on the market in its class. When these fit your task/workflow, they are almost unbeatable at it.

But they are no raw-power monsters. To see that it is enough checking the torque officially specced for the TPC on the Festool site. If you need raw power, there are other brands to serve you.

Thanks for the explanation.  I've come to the conclusion that maybe this is something that I'm still interested in, in addition to what I already have.  I might just keep a higher torque drill in my truck as a backup if needed.

 

[Packard]

I bought a Dewalt corded electric drill for my doweling needs.  All my dowel work is done in the shop so the cord is not an issue.  It spins about twice as fast (and maybe more under load) than my cordless drill.

The Dewalt corded drill spins at 2,800 rpms and barely slows under load.  No cordless will perform like that, especially for under $70.00. 

I love my cordless, but not for in-shop work.  For site work, it is groundbreaking. 

For dowel work, the faster spinning definitely speeds up the work and as a by-product it produces cleaner holes.

I am in the Milwaukee system and they seem to make good cordless tools.  I especially like the nailguns.  Very handy.

 

[mino]

Packard, just for reference, the topic is about the TPC. A 3600 rpm drill. The DRC/PDC series were 3800 rpm in the 4th gear.
[cool]

That was actually why I bought my DRC 18/4. All the serious power drills on the market top at 3000 rpm or so. *)

*) Excepting some industrial stupidly-low-torque ones like the Makita DP 2010 i bought before ... only to find too weak./

 

[Packard]

I am still of the opinion that if you are using a drill in the shop, a corded drill makes more sense.

All the reviews I have read on this drill seem impressed with the fit and finish and the Systainer. 

 

[mino]

I am still of the opinion that if you are using a drill in the shop, a corded drill makes more sense.
...

With you there. If there were any with a T-handle and reasonable power and speed ... but there are none.

Good drills in the 3000 rpm range are same weight class as a TPC but they have a "pistol" style grip, making them very unbalanced to the front in one-handed use.

I loved mine but it is collecting dust since I got my DRC 18/4. I used it in a drill stand at least - a waste for such a drill - but that was now upgraded to a DR 20 and its only task is as a percussion drill for those odd tasks. Once I get a cordless percussion for rough work I will be selling it.

And that is one of the best drills, even in todays market. I never imagined I would be looking to pass it on.

Sadly the market for /quality/ corded drills is now limited to construction tools and industrial stuff. And even these are dying fast, being swapped for cordless en masse.

 

[slavi.yordanov]

I have a love/hate relationship with Festool drills really. Yes, they feel very nice ergonomically and have great trigger control, but durability is terrible. They will last long time screwing hinges and pocket screws, but anything other than that and you better have warranty.

I have the C18, T18, TPC18, TID18, CXS and had a PDC for a while. Motor of the C18 burned on the second year, and the right angle chuck literally fell apart while drilling a hole one day (metal locking collar is attached with screws into plastic housing, german engineering as they say); After it returned from service, it makes a low pitch grinding noise now. Never bothered to send it back again.

T18, CXS are super outdated, and while they may not need extra torque necessarily, they could be much more compact. Festool can easily make a Centrotec head for standard 1/4" hex bits. As the comments above suggested, the Centrotec system is underdeveloped, and there are barely any 3rd party accessories available.

The PDC and it's right angle chuck actually feel like heavy duty, it's just a really old and outdated design.

And now to Festool's newest additions - TID and TPC. I have had the TID for a few months, bought from recon (came brand new) and I have barely used it. They other day, when switching bits I noticed, that the chuck is toast. It doesn't lock anymore, feels like the spring is broken. Don't get me wrong, Milwaukee chucks fail too, but it takes a serious amount of abuse for it to happen. The TID have barely been used... Switching back to my M12 Surge, I guess.

I bought the TPC a month before it got released in US. It got much more usage than my TID. On that same day, when the TID broke, I was putting the TPC away, when noticed the reverse button stuck in forward position... Call me unlucky, but for the price paid I should not be sending these drills back for repair after a few months of usage.

Otherwise The TPC feels great in the hand and has a good amount of power. It's quite heavy and feels like a well-made drill. I don't have issues with switching or staying in gear either. My biggest problem with it is the anti-kickback feature. Yes, I see why it's a nice feature to have, but I don't know why there is no option to turn it off. Some people know better how to handle a drill like that, and would actually appreciate the full power it can provide. There is an option to disable the light though (german engineering, right?) The new right angle chuck is a joke, just like the last one (mostly plastic).

Long story short, if you expect 'heavy duty' from a Festool drill, you most likely would be disappointed. If you are into their battery system already, and your application is not as demanding, you would appreciate the nice grip and perfect trigger control. Probably would last a long time too. They only reason I got into Festool drills was the right angle adapter and 13mm chuck combination. Not many other options in US as far as I know.

On a side note, OSC18 is a killer tool. This thing is 'HEAVY DUTY', I cut everything from drywall to water-filled pipes with it, very little vibration, and never had issue with it. Not made by Festool, as we all know, so maybe that's why.

 

[mino]

... Festool can easily make a Centrotec head for standard 1/4" hex bits. ...

Actually, they cannot.

The Centrotec system has two "fixing" points - the "hex" part, which also provides the torque and the "cylindrical"part which is then supported by the Centrotec chuck.

This means, you can - in theory - make Centotec bits which work in "standard" hex holders by adding a "hex" detent position. But you cannot make a chuck which would *both* accept Cetrotec long shaft AND the standard short hex bits. The best you can do is already done - all the Cetrotec drills accept hex bits using a magnetic holder in the shaft.

This is not to say things cannot be improved. But the in-compatibility of Centrotec chuck with /standard/ hex bits is inherently tied to the additional stability Cetrotec provides. It comes from the long shaft which hex bit standard simply does not have.

How that addl. precision is critical in today's time when precise hex bits and holders are available is a different discussion.

ON TOPIC:
There is one aspect which is possibly related to the TPC torque break being so conservative:

Anyone know how much torque the standard Centrotec HEX components which are used for the chucks are rated for?

It may be Festool had to limit the TPC to not overload the (older ?) Centrotec attachments. I have the DR 20 which is a 98Nm (soft-torque) drill and Festool makes special "Centrotec-XL" chucks for it where the torque is NOT transferred via the hex but special detents on the drill and the chucks.

Notice the "notches" on the chucks in the attached picture - these mate with counter-notches on the Centrotec-XL drill shafts:

 

[Mini Me]

I have been using cordless drills since I bought my first 7.2V Makita in 1981 so I have seen a lot of change in the market. I then went on to buy a Panasonic 9V which I still think was the best cordless drill I have ever owned because it just felt so good in my hand, then a Festool C12 because I needed a drill and it was a brushless motor with 12V. When Protool was shut down Festool Oz offered the Protool 4 speeds at $250 down from about $800 so I bought two, one of each type and stopped there for 18V cordless. They don't get much use because I bought a Bosch 12V cordless impact gun and in the workshop I exclusively use Bosch 12V and I cannot comprehend why anyone would want more in a workshop unless they were building heavy duty structures. I have never found a situation where I have wanted more than the 18V Protool drills, the C12 is old and clunky but it works and the 12V Bosch range is light and does the job in the workshop. I have a 40 year old corded AEG 1/2" drill I can use if I want to break my wrists left over from when I built my workshop which has a lot of steel structure in in it. These days I would not bother with Festool drills because the opposition is at least as good but that might be an unpopular view around here which I can understand.

 

[bidn]

Re. Centrotec, I bought the whole kit long time ago but almost never use it (BTW doubt that it is suitable for impact drivers).
I own many drills and impact drivers from Festool, Milwaukee and Metabo.
In the end my general favorite drill is the Milwaukee M12 FDDXKIT-0X = 12 V kit with all kinds of chucks and without the 2.0 Ah battery (the 2.0 Ah makes it unstable when standing) but with the powerful 6.0 Ah battery. Re. impact drivers, I prefer the the Milwaukee's 12V and 18V impact drivers, followed by Metabo's.

 

[glass1]

Still got the centrotec ?

 

[mrboult]

I have a love/hate relationship with Festool drills really. Yes, they feel very nice ergonomically and have great trigger control, but durability is terrible. They will last long time screwing hinges and pocket screws, but anything other than that and you better have warranty.

I have the C18, T18, TPC18, TID18, CXS and had a PDC for a while. Motor of the C18 burned on the second year, and the right angle chuck literally fell apart while drilling a hole one day (metal locking collar is attached with screws into plastic housing, german engineering as they say); After it returned from service, it makes a low pitch grinding noise now. Never bothered to send it back again.

T18, CXS are super outdated, and while they may not need extra torque necessarily, they could be much more compact. Festool can easily make a Centrotec head for standard 1/4" hex bits. As the comments above suggested, the Centrotec system is underdeveloped, and there are barely any 3rd party accessories available.

The PDC and it's right angle chuck actually feel like heavy duty, it's just a really old and outdated design.

And now to Festool's newest additions - TID and TPC. I have had the TID for a few months, bought from recon (came brand new) and I have barely used it. They other day, when switching bits I noticed, that the chuck is toast. It doesn't lock anymore, feels like the spring is broken. Don't get me wrong, Milwaukee chucks fail too, but it takes a serious amount of abuse for it to happen. The TID have barely been used... Switching back to my M12 Surge, I guess.

I bought the TPC a month before it got released in US. It got much more usage than my TID. On that same day, when the TID broke, I was putting the TPC away, when noticed the reverse button stuck in forward position... Call me unlucky, but for the price paid I should not be sending these drills back for repair after a few months of usage.

Otherwise The TPC feels great in the hand and has a good amount of power. It's quite heavy and feels like a well-made drill. I don't have issues with switching or staying in gear either. My biggest problem with it is the anti-kickback feature. Yes, I see why it's a nice feature to have, but I don't know why there is no option to turn it off. Some people know better how to handle a drill like that, and would actually appreciate the full power it can provide. There is an option to disable the light though (german engineering, right?) The new right angle chuck is a joke, just like the last one (mostly plastic).

Long story short, if you expect 'heavy duty' from a Festool drill, you most likely would be disappointed. If you are into their battery system already, and your application is not as demanding, you would appreciate the nice grip and perfect trigger control. Probably would last a long time too. They only reason I got into Festool drills was the right angle adapter and 13mm chuck combination. Not many other options in US as far as I know.

On a side note, OSC18 is a killer tool. This thing is 'HEAVY DUTY', I cut everything from drywall to water-filled pipes with it, very little vibration, and never had issue with it. Not made by Festool, as we all know, so maybe that's why.

It's so funny that two people could have such starkly different experiences. I have owned roughly 6 or 7 festool drills, some for only a year or two some for 6+ years daily/weekly use. I have never had to send one back. I'm no power user, I don't have any auger bits the size of my arm in the workshop But I regularly do things like . .

- Use 35mm forester bits in hardwoods
- 3inch hole saws through all sorts
- 10mm diameter concrete fixings
- 150mm long timber screws through pressure treaded framing timber
- I routinely use my right angle attachments to handle more torque (ergomonicgly), not as an item I need to be concerned over breaking
- I mix plaster with the T18 occasionally (it's my oldest most used drill at this point, still fine)

Once when I still had the PDC I used the below "hole saw" to cut 100+ rings of 18mm MDF with an OD 200mm and an ID 180mm. That requires offsetting the two cutters so each one is making it's own cut.
That's mental, and the PDC did it without fuss. If I remember correctly the issue I had was batteries being so hot, I'd go through two before the first was cool enough to charge (pre Airsteam) so they were piling up and becoming the limiting factor.



So good luck, bad luck, the subtleties of definitions of our use cases that we describe. . It's hard to fathom why people have such different experiences in these situations. Good luck anyone reading and trying to decide who's luck to bet on

 

[Mini Me]

Both my drills have an abysmal gear change to the point one was seized and I sent it back and the other was difficult to move but useable. Over several years both have settled down to simply hard to use but as they get so little use I don't worry about them too much. The Bosch 12V range includes a full kit with offset chuck which was way cheaper than Festool's version and I did not have to think too hard about which I would buy since I already had the battery system with a previous tool. My C12 basically sits there unloved and unused unfortunately but we did a big job some time ago and used every cordless driver we I had so it got a workout then.

 

[glass1]

Well I actually like the cordless festool drills. They spin true. Have inter changeable chucks. Personally I have other drills to drill 5” holes. Festool drills feel good in your hand and are quiet. I also like the td 18. Yep not the smallest strongest or anything but for some reason when I start a construction screw with the combination of slow start and spinning Just makes its easy to drive the screws. My super powerful small makita starts so strong(I am old 53) always overpowers me at the start. I got an impact wrench for driving big bolts. I LIKE CENTROTEC. FESTOOL PLEASE SUPPORT THE SYSTEM.  And did I hear you right you bought a bunch of centrotec ? Still got it ? Sell it ?