Track Saw with Table or a Kapex

[nedmccormick]

I am wanting to be a Festool owner, but can only (maybe) afford one saw and dust collection system.  So, given the choice between a track saw and MFT/3 table or a Kapex saw (with a few accessories), which would you buy first?  I am a DYI, my income is not dependent on my tools, but I want to take my craft to the next level, and I appreciate precision.

Appreciate your opinions and why you would choose one purchase over another.

Thanks
Ed

 

[erock]

My first Festool purchase was the TS55, MFT/3 and CT Midi.

  I would recommend the TS55 or 75 with a  CT package and MFT/3.   

The Kapex is great.  But the TS with MFT/3 could handle some of the same cuts a Kapex would do. 

If you're going to be doing a lot of projects in the near future with sheet goods, then the TS is the way to go.

Eric

 

[Motown]

Hello Ed and welcome to the forum. Can you tell us about the projects your planning as that will help with getting advice?

 

[peter halle]

First things first.  [welcome] to the FOG!  Motown said it correctly.  Without knowing what you want you plan to do we really can't give you the best advice.

Peter

 

[erock]

Ed,  just buy it all buddy.

You will want to once you make your fist cut......with the TS or Kapex.    [tongue]

Once you buy your first Festool sander, you'll want all of them.    [tongue]

So call your preferred Festool dealer......tell them you would like one of everything and just get the dance over with now.    [wink]

Eric

 

[Iceclimber]

Im a big track saw fan.

Im also a big Kapex fan.

Im not a big MFT/3 fan.

MFT basic is fine as a workbench if you dont already have one and just need someplace to sand clam stuff and a flat place to assemble stuff. Even then its not idea as its small and not overly stable for anything other than powertool work.his si just my oppinion. Others love them. I dont get it i think they are a bit gimicky is you are a actual trades person and have prior experience building stuff.

They are great for the mobile contractor for onsight work but as a dedicted bench not so much.

 

[Iceclimber]

He is right about this.

I would actually kinda suggest rethinking purchasing any Festool. Its an addiction bordering on madness!

Kidding of course about not buying that first tool. If you do just be prepared you will spend thousands upon thousands on tools this next calendar year.

Fact!

Ed,  just buy it all buddy.

You will want to once you make your fist cut......with the TS or Kapex.    [tongue]

Once you buy your first Festool sander, you'll want all of them.    [tongue]

So call your preferred Festool dealer......tell them you would like one of everything and just get the dance over with now.    [wink]

Eric

 

[Doug S]

Get a ts55 track saw and a midi extractor, fantastic combo, you don't need an MFT. Put the money you save towards a mitre saw, unless you make a living from woodworking a Kapex is hard to justify.

 

[rajuliano]

Another vote for the TS, MFT, Midi combo over the Kapex. As a DIY'er/hobbiest, I've found value in being able to bring the MFT into the room I'm working on and work in there instead of having to go up and down the stairs over and over again. Obviously not for small projects, but great for remodels. It's amazing how much time you save not having to go back and forth to the garage. The Midi is also easier to carry than the larger vacs. And if you also park cars in your garage, you can fold up the MFT and push it up against a wall to save space.

 

[JBag09]

My opinion is it depends on what your going to be working on most. Personally I got a ts55 first and just used my shop vac, but as someone said, once you make your first cut, Festool becomes an addiction.
If your doing a lot of sheet goods then I think a TS and MFT is a great way to start, the CT, not a absolute necessity, however well worth the money, and now that I have it, I couldn't work without it. And yes the sanders are awesome, I own 3 of them now after just wanting 1.
If you have a chop saw now, you can get by, personally I just liked the dust free environment that I have with my TS, domino, Router, and sanders that I had to have a Kapex and of course another CT.
So again it all depends on what you work with most as to what you should begin your Festool journey with.

 

[mark60]

Asa fellow hobbyist I would and did go with the track saw. I used my shopvac until I got a CT with my Domino. I've been using a replacement MFT top on sawhorses and will start building it into an MFTC this weekend. I'd like a Kapex, especially with the sale going on but I have an older Hitachi SCMS that does what I need it to do so a Kapex is down the road for me.

 

[waho6o9]

Track saw and trade the rail for the one with the holes (LR32 system I think)

and a dust extractor with a dust deputy and a basic MFT with dogs and dog

rails.

 

[jacko9]

I would need to know what you intend to do with the tools before recommending one tool over another.  If you just want to have a "home shop" tool for whatever comes up, then buy the Kapex.  Track saws are great for breaking down sheet goods if you intend to do a lot of sheet good construction and I say a lot because I have a skill saw and a straight edge that is a whole lot cheaper for an occasional cut.  Personally I would skip the MFT/3 if you are limited in what you purchase since without a lot of accessories it is just a wobbly work bench.  The Kapex is a very fine saw but, my introduction to Festool was the Domino Joiner which added a tool to my shop that was unique and had the added value of dust collection.  That dust extractor with it's great efficiency let me to buy Festool sanders (four at last count) and I may add a Kapex or track saw in the future if I decide to build another kitchen.  I build furniture as a hobby so I have a full shop so consider my response in that context.

Jack

 

[Greg M]

I am wanting to be a Festool owner, but can only (maybe) afford one saw and dust collection system.  So, given the choice between a track saw and MFT/3 table or a Kapex saw (with a few accessories), which would you buy first?  I am a DYI, my income is not dependent on my tools, but I want to take my craft to the next level, and I appreciate precision.

Appreciate your opinions and why you would choose one purchase over another.

Thanks
Ed

Sounds like you're getting a CT and a saw combo.

As far as the CT:
If you want to be mobile (take out of the shop) then I'd get a midi.  I have one because it's much easier to carry.
If it's going to stay in the shop then I'd get the CT48.  Larger capacity and I empty my bag often so no need for any kind of collector connected to it (saves money).  I've got one of those also.

Track Saw and MFT/3:
This is the first Festool that most people get.  Fantastic tool to have.  It was my first Festool and I can't understand how I got along without it.
If you want to be mobile then the MFT/3 is a big plus to have.  If it's going to stay in the shop then buy an MFT replacement top and build a stand for it (will save over $500).  Get some parf dogs for it and you can do without the hardware that comes with the MFT/3.  I first bought 2 MFT/3's but ended up building 2 tables in my shop.  I'm going to sell one of the MFT/3s and keep the other one because I also need to take it to the job site at times.

Kapex:
I need a miter saw and I do have a Kapex.  However, I'd get the track saw, 1 or 2 sanders, and maybe a couple of other items before the Kapex. 

Of coarse it would be far easier to answer your questions if we knew what you liked to do and what tools you already have. 

 

[Gary in Texas]

Ed, first off,  [welcome] to the FOG!

I'm going to suggest a slightly different approach.  My recommendation would be to buy the TS 55, the Domino 500 with the tenon/cutter assortment, and a MFT top.  Here is why........

The track saw excels at breaking down sheet goods with precision, and you can use it on sheet goods as well as hard and soft wood.

The domino will definitely take you to that "next level" you referenced.  You can find many uses for the domino, and can use it to start building shelves and work stations for your shop.

You can buy just the MFT top from any of the online dealers, as well as from Amazon for somewhere around $130.  The TS 55, Domino 500 with tenons and cutter, and the MFT top will cost about the same/a little more than the Kapex, and together offer way more flexibility and benefits than what the Kapex brings to the table.....  If you need a miter saw, you can get a decent one for a few hundred dollars.  You don't need the sliding type, and the chop saw type will provide better accuracy anyway as compared with the lower range sliders.

Use these tools initially to build your own MFT.  You don't need to get all fancy, just a functioning table you can use to help build other stuff!  You can also use these tools to build your own router table, which is often overlooked as a very handy and important tool to have in the workshop.  Remember, you will still need to buy clamps, a second rail with connectors if you will be breaking down sheet goods, and the wood itself, where you can spend a lot of $$$.  And as others have noted, you can get by with a shop vac.  If you decide later to buy a few sanders, then budget to also buy the midi or CT 26 as you will benefit from having the variable suction.

Personally, if you were to go with the Kapex only, I don't see how you would benefit from having a top end miter saw as compared with the tools I mentioned above.  The Kapex would be the tool I would purchase last, as you would benefit more from having those core tools above, along with some sanders and routers.  As oft said on the forum, buy the tools you need, not the ones you simply want.....

Good luck on your decision. 

Gary

 

[nedmccormick]

Some great advice and perspectives; my thinking has been influenced.  If I keep going to my local Festool dealers shop and drooling on his stock I may get myself in trouble so I have to buy something soon to earn the right to keep widow shopping.

My projects range.  I do box cabinets and shelving units, which require sheet good work.  That's what took me to seeking a TS.  I have been using my circular saw and a strate-cut for many years, but I am tired of the veneer ripping on the upside; and it seems the veneer panels are now even more susceptible to tearing.  As the cost of sheet goods approaches my monthly internet / cable bill, making perfect cuts seems to be a necessity anymore.

I also do lots of simple frame making (puzzles, odd size stuff, a little crown work for home accessories like window valances; small projects and repairs from everywhere find their way to me).  I was led to the Kapex by the promise of dust control.  I work out of a two car attached garage, which both cars are parked in at night.  I put up and take down all my tools for all jobs.  Space, protability and storage is a premium.

I recently traded in my old Delta chop saw (10" - 30 years old) for a new 12" Dewalt (wanted a bevel cut option, and more capacity).  Not sure this was a good move, I think the old Delta gave a much better cross cut with a top of the line blade than the new Dewalt with a top of the line 80 tooth blade, but both saws spew dust everywhere despite my best tries at containment and collection with the traditional Sears vacuums.

When we downsized to my current home and 2 car garage, I also transitioned to a Bosch 10" TS.  I have been impressed with the saw, but it's not the same as my 35 year old Craftsman cast-iron stationary.  The gravity fold stand and Bosch accuracy helped me make that decision when space became a premium.  I am contemplating an Incra sliding miter kit to this saw as an option as well.  The Bosch T miter is pretty basic and has been disappointing.

I appreciate the input, and do see how finding Festool may lead to the need for another job or income source.  The more I explore the more I "want" (vs need).  I completely appreciate the accuracy and precision, but shudder at the price and therefore have to make some choices (or sell a car - but the total proceeds from that would not buy either saw - but I still keep it in the garage!).

Thanks for the input.
Ed

 

[Greg M]

After reading your above post you certainly would be MUCH better served with the track saw (exchange the rail for one with holes), a second holy rail, set of connecting rods for the rails, and an MFT/3 (fast easy setup and breakdown).

I'd suggest a Betterley SLC23 straight line connector. It's well worth the $99 because it helps get the rails perfectly lined up when connecting them.  It can be a pain in the butt to get them aligned and this makes it fast, simple and most of all, accurate.

Since room is limited and you'll be moving things constantly I'd get a CT48 and just empty the bag regularly.  It's much more movable then using a dust collection attachment.  It has the largest capacity and I just take and empty the bag through the inlet hole.

Another item that will be something you'll wonder how you get along without is a sander.  You'll be able to sand in your garage without making a mess.  Don't forget to figure in the cost of the paper, it can get expensive when you first stock up.  I went from dreading sanding to enjoying it once I got my ETS 125 and RO 125.

One of the first things you should make is a sacrifice table.  There are lots of options on this site.  I chose to make one out of strips of 3" strips of 1/2" plywood that I can setup and breakdown in minutes.  I put it on top of my table saw in the shop or on saw horses in the field. 

 

[Iceclimber]

I was a ice and rock climber for many years. Those two sports are very gear intensive.

Anyway i gave up climbing about a year ago. I got about 12-13K for all my used gear. It has since all been spent on Festools.

I recently took a second job of sorts lol to support my plunge into rounding out my shop with big commercial machines. Panel saw, jointer, planer, drum sander, drill press, dust collection blah blah.

Its hard to believe but i still dont own a Domino after all that money spent. I guess a fair amount of that $13000 was spent on wood costing upwards of $30 a BF also.

Careful this thing is as dangerous as anything else you can become interested in.

Sell the extra car buy more tools you can build cool stuff with. The car is doing nothing more than raising the earth temperature and adding to the global warming responsible for the crazy weather we are all becoming so accustomed to.  At least our machines run on electricity that can be generated by the sun if you are so motivated.

  i

Some great advice and perspectives; my thinking has been influenced.  If I keep going to my local Festool dealers shop and drooling on his stock I may get myself in trouble so I have to buy something soon to earn the right to keep widow shopping.

My projects range.  I do box cabinets and shelving units, which require sheet good work.  That's what took me to seeking a TS.  I have been using my circular saw and a strate-cut for many years, but I am tired of the veneer ripping on the upside; and it seems the veneer panels are now even more susceptible to tearing.  As the cost of sheet goods approaches my monthly internet / cable bill, making perfect cuts seems to be a necessity anymore.

I also do lots of simple frame making (puzzles, odd size stuff, a little crown work for home accessories like window valances; small projects and repairs from everywhere find their way to me).  I was led to the Kapex by the promise of dust control.  I work out of a two car attached garage, which both cars are parked in at night.  I put up and take down all my tools for all jobs.  Space, protability and storage is a premium.

I recently traded in my old Delta chop saw (10" - 30 years old) for a new 12" Dewalt (wanted a bevel cut option, and more capacity).  Not sure this was a good move, I think the old Delta gave a much better cross cut with a top of the line blade than the new Dewalt with a top of the line 80 tooth blade, but both saws spew dust everywhere despite my best tries at containment and collection with the traditional Sears vacuums.

When we downsized to my current home and 2 car garage, I also transitioned to a Bosch 10" TS.  I have been impressed with the saw, but it's not the same as my 35 year old Craftsman cast-iron stationary.  The gravity fold stand and Bosch accuracy helped me make that decision when space became a premium.  I am contemplating an Incra sliding miter kit to this saw as an option as well.  The Bosch T miter is pretty basic and has been disappointing.

I appreciate the input, and do see how finding Festool may lead to the need for another job or income source.  The more I explore the more I "want" (vs need).  I completely appreciate the accuracy and precision, but shudder at the price and therefore have to make some choices (or sell a car - but the total proceeds from that would not buy either saw - but I still keep it in the garage!).

Thanks for the input.
Ed

 

[mark60]

It does sound like a tracksaw will be more beneficial first. I also have space constraints, my sheetgoods get cut to size in the garage then brought into my small basement workshop for secondary operations, assembly and finishing. Festool dust collection is a marvel and makes working inside possible for me.

I've used a friend's Kapex and it's a wonderful tool, his is setup on a mitersaw station he built and for a home shop I'd want it the same way but I lack the space. It's certainly portable and a great contractor tool but for home use I'd prefer it had it's own permanent place.

You might want to find the MFTC thread with space issues. I was initially going to build a rolling MFT cabinet but the smaller footprint of the MFTC fits my space much better. Lee Valley has free shipping and you can get some Parf dogs along with tons of other goodies. Rip dogs is another option and you'll have a great MFT for less investment.

If you go the tracksaw route you will want to swap the rail for a holey rail because you will probably need/want to get into the LR32 as already mentioned.

Festool is like potato chips. I bought my tracksaw during the great recon sale of 2014. I've added a Domino, domino assortment and CT Mini (wish I had gotten a Midi) an OF1010 with a few accessories, and the LR32 is next. Sanders will follow. The tools are awesome but the dust collection really sells me.

On a side note the last time I used my SCMS I had a large cardboard box laying in the garage. I cut the sides out a little and carved a hole for my shopvac hose and had the box behind and around my saw. It actually worked surprisingly well at containing a lot of the dust. It was Rube Goldberg for sure and my wife had a good laugh but it worked pretty good. I've since seen a tent type arrangement in a Klingspors catalog that works like my box.

 

[Tinker]

You have gotten a lot of good advise here.  Not much I can add other than my own experience.
I have three (1080/800//3) MFT's along with CT 33 & 22 along with TS 55.  Three different sanders and several other Festoys.  I have a SCMS of another brand.

I use the TS 55/CT/MFT combo nearly every time i work in my shop.  I almost never use my SCMS, as i can cut any angle needed with my TS/MFT combo along with the appropriate fence and rail combo.  I can rip any lumber, even if too thick to go thru with only one cut.  There is nothing I can rip with the Kapex.  I do have a bandsaw that i use for ripping heavy lumber and sometimes even very small pieces.  The BS was a cheapy, but i make do when needed.  If your work is mostly in home shop, i think a BS is more usable than a Kapex (for my work anyhow.) I keep drooling over the Kapex and avoid trying it out when visiting my toystore.  I have a Domino that so far, I have put to use only for learning on scrap wood.  That toy will find, eventually, far more use than i will ever put any miter saw.  The TS 55 I would not even think of replacing.  all of the other tools mentioned in this replay as well as others before me, i can find inexpensive replacements until such time as i could afford (and that has happened many times) 

One alternative to the MFT's I have been looking at has been Paulk's workbench.  Eventually, i plan to construct something along that line that will eliminate my need for any of the MFT's.  I won't eliminate the swiss cheese part of the MFT equation tho.  That hole pattern has become the most unshakable habit in the entire equation.  I will probably, whenever I do something along Paulk's ideas mixed with other ideas, keep at least one of the MFT's if not for work bench, at least for assembly table. For that, i have not discovered any thing to beat them..

You have a lot to think about.  good luck and stay safe.  That slippery slope can be dangerous.  :

Tinker